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Thread: My Poor Leaning Lehman

  1. #1
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    Default My Poor Leaning Lehman

    I am taking a fellow participants advice and posting this new thread. I have a 2000 FLHTCUI kited with a Lehman Renegade. I installed this kit a few years ago with a friend and he rode if for years without any complaint at all. He parked it in his garage and got involved with expensive motor-homes and the trike gathered dust-and-rust until I beat him out of it. Long story short. It takes left hand curves like is was glued to the road, but a right hander will scare the hair right off your head. I can attest to this as I am now bald. This trike is aligned front-to-back, side-to-side, top-to-bottom and criss-cross to within just a few thousands. The X is exactly perfect. For the record, from both lower rear shock mounting bolts to the front fork bleed screw (either side) is exactly 67-inches.<br />
    <br />
    Both legs on the X are exacty 69 inches.

    The belt runs true and the differential housing is within 10/1000 of being equally spaced from the rear swingarm mounting block to it's clamping place in the cradles. Yes...it does still have the dreaded cleaveblocks, but lots of them out there still do also. It's worse when it is loaded with the wife and her stuff. When to take that Interstate ramp to the right...it does not want to cooperate and leans outward...I mean really leans. I don't think its a shock, but I have picked up another pair and will change the left one out just for kicks, if what I have just done dosen't help. I have just replaced the front stabilizer link with a SOLID (no rubber bushing) link. I have took it around the block and it may feel a bit better, but I won't know until I get the wife along with all her stuff on there for sure. That happens next week on a big trip. Somebody tell me what to go adjust or replace to fix this!<br />
    <br />
    Chances are I have already done it, but try me anyway. Lehman won't or can't.

    Any suggestions and comments are welcome.

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    Default Re: My Poor Leaning Lehman

    1550vt - Change both shocks at the same time!

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    Default Re: My Poor Leaning Lehman

    I guess the theory on doing that is that the right one may actually be the culprit? I really don't think it's either shock, but I plan to do this if the stabilizer link dosen't help.

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    Default Re: My Poor Leaning Lehman

    We've been over and over this a few times on the other forum and I had hoped that someone here may have a direct answer. Who knows, ya know?

    VT, did you ever try that straight pipe/shock idea for a test ride?

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    Default Re: My Poor Leaning Lehman

    RESKUL....I ain't got around to that particular test yet. I had gone back over the alignment (for the 39th. time) and in the process, just decided to take some componets off and get a closer look. That is when I discovered the worn front stabilizer link. I had a couple of solid (bronze bushing) heim joints of the proper size and I constructed a stiff link, installed it and realigned everything (that would be the 40th. time). I just returned from my test track, which is the Interstate clover leaf just down the road. Sunday mornings are great down there as the traffic is minimal. I made 4 circuits, or 16 right hand turns and beat-the-scene before the cops showed up to ask me what I was doing, or if I was lost-and-confused. Actually, they could be right in either case.<br />
    <br />
    A little understandable added vibration, but the thing seems to be a bit better.

    I still plan to replace the shocks, or try your suggestion this week and see if that makes any difference. &lt;br /&gt;<br />
    &lt;br /&gt;<br />
    If ULTRABOY is listening, he may have something to add here. Remember my left-handers seem okay, which tells me nothing is &amp;quot;moving&amp;quot; off to the right. After looking at this stabilizer link and seeing the way it was worn, it is very apparent the joint could have been moving in the direction that is causing my problem. The eye of the joint was pushed against the inside wall and it could only move one way. Of course.....it isn't suppose to move much at all, but a little is all it takes. It could only move in the right hand turn mode.&lt;br /&gt;<br />
    You have to really visualize and think about what-is-pushing-what-when. I have about &amp;quot;thunked-n-visualized&amp;quot; myself into a 6-pack here today.

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    Default Re: My Poor Leaning Lehman

    VT... I wasn't trying to get you to loopy with all the 12 oz curls. <img src="images/smilies/grin.gif" border="0" alt="" title="big grin" class="inlineimg" /> I was taunting you to post more on this issue. Most of the details are on the other site so our &quot;Supermen&quot; may not have had the chance to view them.<br />
    <br />
    I truly don't think it is an alignment issue. You may have hit the nail on the head with the stabilizer link. Even if you didn't it was still an issue that had to be addressed.<br />
    <br />
    Pardon the pun... but I'm still leaning toward a bad shock as stated before. Of course there is always changing that heavy wallet you carry to the right pocket.:yes:<img src="images/smilies/grin.gif" border="0" alt="" title="big grin" class="inlineimg" /><img src="images/smilies/grin.gif" border="0" alt="" title="big grin" class="inlineimg" />

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    Default Re: My Poor Leaning Lehman

    REKSUL...obviously I could write volumes on this issue. I am &amp;quot;fishing&amp;quot; for the real experts to chime-in so I can add more details without putting everybody to sleep. I just don't see many complaints on the various forums concerning trike handling and I fear I am the only guy suffering. Sort of like the guy on another thread with his passenger foot pegs falling off all the time. &amp;quot;Whoever heard of such a thing&amp;quot; and that is exactly what I get from the builders. Stuff like...&amp;quot;well, bring it in and we can check it, but we've never had that problem&amp;quot;, and one actually said &amp;quot;seems like you may have a problem there, but I don't know what it could be&amp;quot;. I tried to vist the Lehman facility in Spearfish. They told me they could not help me and I needed to go see a dealer. I have ridden other trikes and I know how they should handle. I think I would rather be the guy with his foot pegs falling off!&lt;br /&gt;<br />
    &lt;br /&gt;<br />
    I hope your are right...I hope it is something as stupid as a shock.<br />
    <br />
    I just have to get a few more Budwiser's in me and get out there and jack-her-up and do it.

    I do know the stabilizer was defective. Whether-or-not that fixed me up as good as I can be fixed is yet to be determined. I have to get my 100-pound wife and her 500-pounds of baggage on there to see.&lt;br /&gt;<br />
    &lt;br /&gt;<br />
    Thanks for the moral support.

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    Default Re: My Poor Leaning Lehman

    This afternoon, me and Porh Kitty (that's my cat) got out there and tackled this shock thingy. PK mostly watched, but she was helpful. I could talk to her all I desired without any back-talk. I went ahead and replaced both sides with a like set I had left over from a buddy's ULTRA lowering job. Sure....one of them could be bad too, but it's unlikely...I hope. If anything, it may change the way things are and that would be a change. I am ready for any kind of results...negative or positive. At least it may indicate &amp;quot;something&amp;quot;. If I have any indication of improvement, I may need to spring for a good set of shocks. This brings me around to seeking some help from forum members.<br />
    <br />
    Like...what shocks are they running on their ULTRA Lehman Trikes and what recommendations anyone has to offer.

    I need to hear about tires, shocks and air pressures.&lt;br /&gt;<br />
    &lt;br /&gt;<br />
    Raining now and I don't get wet on purpose. Test ride down on the clover leaf comes tomorrow after the rush hour. Wish me luck!

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    Default Re: My Poor Leaning Lehman

    Good luck
    Stallion #406 // 2013 Tri-Glide

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    Default Re: My Poor Leaning Lehman

    I am not trying to be a smart a%%. Have you changed out tires? Checked the rear bearings for play? Sidewall damage, pressure or age of tire could cause similar effects in a turn. Just trying to help out.<br />
    <br />
    I am having a problem with a high frequency vibration at certain rpms. I put it on the forum to get lots of ideas. You always get the smart answers that don't help anything but most of the replies I am getting are good ones. Good luck on your mission.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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    Default Re: My Poor Leaning Lehman

    56...I can sssure you that I don't consider any suggestion as a smart a%% answer. I welcome all comments and they give me a chance to make sure that I have considered everything. I have been waiting for someone to indicate that this could also be a tire issue.<br />
    <br />
    As far as the bearings, I pulled the axles on this trike when I converted to disc brakes. This necessitates the removal of everything in both axles and all that has been checked. I have checked for any possible axle-wiggle and I think everything is okay there. This problem pre-dates the conversion from drum-to-disc.<br />
    <br />
    For tires...these early kits came with the (rather wide) P245/60R15. This is way too much tire and I think most companies have gone to a different tire. I am considering changing the rears when I finally eleminate any other possibility. I have played with tire pressures and can get the bike to do a bit better if I air them up tight to 30-or-better. 30-or-better will beat you to death and I ususlly run from 24-26.

    The front tire is the stock HD Dresser. I have also played with shock air pressure, which has a simliar effect as tire pressure. My next trick may be to try and swap sides with the wheels.<br />
    <br />
    You have to do things one-at-a-time and evaluate the results.<br />
    <br />
    I was thinking if the tires are a problem, surely this problem would have surfaced by now and I would have found someone complaining about it. <br />
    <br />
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++<br />
    <br />
    I do need to alert anyone with the Lehman belt drive system that I found a rather serious problem when I was greasing the differential last year. The differential is held together by two circles of bolts. I had four bolts missing and many others were loose. The nuts had came off the bolts. The housing cannot seperate, but it will fling-out the grease and possibly move enough to cause a problem. I took mine apart and installed nyloc nuts and a backing nut over each bolt. To check this, stick your finger up in the hole where you grease the differential and roll the trike.

    You can feel each bolt.

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    Default Re: My Poor Leaning Lehman

    VT<br />
    <br />
    You mentioned earlier about what shocks would be interchangeable. I don't know the specs but... I do have a set of perfectly good stock Ultra air shocks (6000 miles on them) over here plus all the air line hose and connections.<br />
    <br />
    If you have a need, let me know. I'll ship them to you.

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    Default Re: My Poor Leaning Lehman

    Thanks REKSUL for the offer. I had a pair off an Ultra left-over from a lowering job I did for a buddy. They are older than yours, but I used them just for a test. I just got back from my cloverleaf test track and I think I'm doing a lot better here. I feel like a NASCAR crew chief. Any little thing you touch on this suspension has some affect. I did three things this morning all at once, so it may be a combination of all I have done. I still think the wimpy stabilizer link had a great deal to do with the lean. The thing would go into the curve and then &quot;plop&quot; over a bit, but then hold. Sort of a &quot;leaning hold&quot;. I am pretty much right back to hoping, and won't know until I get the wife on there for ballast. NO....don't dare let her know I am using her for ballast.<br />
    The Lehman manual specifies 18-22 pounds of tire pressure, but this thing will wobble all over the place with 18 pounds in these wide-profile tires.

    18 may be okay if all you do is ride back-n-forth down the airport runway. I pumped her up to 28 in the tires, 15 in the rear shocks (the ones I replaced yesterday) and all this along with the link, seems to be helping. We'll see next week when we take this trip. I WOULD STILL LIKE TO HEAR FROM OTHERS CONCERNING TIRE PRESSURE AND SHOCK PRESSURE. I know you guys with the adjustable systems are light-years ahead of what I have here, so that won't help me much.

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    Default Re: My Poor Leaning Lehman

    I agree 15 is to low. Too much side wall flex. I use 25 in my 255/60/18 Ted
    Stallion #406 // 2013 Tri-Glide

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    Default Re: My Poor Leaning Lehman

    VT = try running 24 to 25 in the rear tires and increasing the shocks to around 22 to 23

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    Default Re: My Poor Leaning Lehman

    Good work guys. Now I am begining to hear stuff other people are running.
    I will pump the tires up there around 26...maybe higher just for kicks and around 22-23 in the shocks. I think I have been runing the shocks way...way too low...like 8-10 in an effort to soften the ride for the little woman. She is around 100 lbs. and her baggage is close to 50 pounds by the time we stuff the trunk and add the tour pack bag. Maybe if I could shove her into the trunk, it would lower the COG? I'd have hell-to-pay afterwards though. It would be like trying to shove a mad live cat into a boot.

    Thanks again!

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    Default Re: My Poor Leaning Lehman

    VT

    just for your records... I run 24 in the tires and 40 in the shocks but... I have coil over shocks that are adjustable too.

    HD says.. air suspension for two up in the weight class you speak is 25 lbs. it's in the HD manual for the touring bike. Be sure you use a hand pump to pressurize those shocks or you could blow their seals. An air compressor can do that in a blink of an eye.

    :yes:

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    Default Re: My Poor Leaning Lehman

    Affirmative REKSUL I have been hand-pumping HD shocks for over 20-years. I have concluded that 24 in the rear tires is still a bit too low for these particular tires, but I have never ran the shock pressure that high. I really think the stabilizer link replacement is going to fix most of what I have been dealing with and tweaking pressures will be the icing on the cake.

    I have not been able to fine-tune this thing because of the wicked lean it had in those RH turns. Nothing seemed to work as long as it had that problem. If replacing that link took care of my "sudden droop" in the RH turns....maybe I can get on with the fine-tuning now.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: My Poor Leaning Lehman

    1550vt<br />
    I've installed a few Lehman kits. They advertise them (or used to) as having a no lean suspension. I'm thinking you need to check the rubber swing arm mounts. I can't remember the correct terminology for them but the swing arm uses large rubber biscuits on both sides to mount the swing arm. Not sure what year you have but if one of them has come apart or crumbled it would allow the swing arm to twist. Since these kits are straight axle, they can only move up or down, in other words if you hit a bump with one wheel both wheels will be deflected up. If one of those biscuits is bad it would let the swing arm twist. I can't see how a bad shock would affect this. The only way I can see it leaning is bad swing arm bushings or a bad front motor mount, which you have already worked on. Sorry to say replacing the swing arm biscuits is bassically a total tear down!! Hope you find the problem.<br />
    <br />
    Dwight<br />
    <br />
    I kept thinking about this after I went to bed last night (hate that) and I remember that these bikes also have a top mount under the tank. Lehman included a re-inforcing kit for this mount.

    It was updated at least once while I was still installing Lehman kits. The front mount, top mount, and swingarm bushings are made to allow forward and backword (rocking) movement but not side to side movement. I know the front mount was a weak area. I had to replace the front mount (the rubber was nearly gone) in a police bike trade in that we converted to a trike. It had just over 10K miles on it. <br />
    If you can raise your trike on a lift put a jack under it at the rear crossmember and raise the rear wheels off of the ground. You will need to tie down the front end! Use another jack under the swing arm where the plates are that the rear end bolts up. Do this one side at a time. Remove what ever is necessary to let you see the pivot axle for the swing arm.

    Then jack up one side of the swing arm (easy here, don't raise it much) and watch the pivot shaft to see if it moves. Move the jack over to the other side and do the same thing. If the end of the pivot shaft moves up/down much then you probably need new rubber biscuits. Hope this helps.<br />
    <br />
    Dwight
    Last edited by Dwight; 05-26-2009 at 12:31 PM. Reason: More info

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    Default Re: My Poor Leaning Lehman

    Thanks for the input Dwight. I have replaced both the &quot;rear motor mounts&quot; as Harley calls them and I have also installed some nylon (or whatever polymer that stuff is) bushings in both sides. Champion provides these bushings in their kits and they sold me a pair at a reasonable price. As you have noted, I had already discovered the defective front mount and installed a solid one with brass inserts in the heim joints rather than rubber. This will be an item to keep a close check on. Now that I have replaced that link and took a long trip up the Cherohala, Blue Ridge, Tail Of The Dragon and Skyline Drive....it appears a bit better, but I think I have hit upon my problem. I never could get any results from this before due to that bad stabilizer link. I experimented with tire and shock pressure on this trip and with these 15-inch wheels and &quot;fat tires&quot;, you just have to keep them up near 29-30 to make this thing corner properly. It's just too much sidewall flex on these 24560Rx15 tires to run them below 24, especially with the wife and the baggage. This model bike still has the cleaveblocks in the swingarm and I was saving converting those to bearings, or solid polymer until I just had to.

    As you have said....that is a real bear and a complete tear-down.<br />
    <br />
    I am still &quot;banging away&quot; at it here. It's still a little mushy in the RH turns, but maybe after replacing that bad link, I can find the right air pressure adjustments that will work for me. I also think I will be looking for some 16-inch wheels and tires.<br />
    <br />
    GOOD INPUT from a man that has been through all this before.

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