Champion IRS problem

[Cool-A]

Hi everybody. My wife and I are new to this site and fairly new to the trike world. We had a Champion IRS trike kit installed on our 2006 Goldwing last Sept. We didn't notice anything wrong till riding with some other riders and they told us that our rear wheels were really leaning in (negative camber). When we got home, I checked the negative camber using a carpenters square against the wheel and it showed a one inch difference between the top of the sidwall and the bottom sidewall.

There is about an inch of the outside of the tread on the tire that isn't touching the pavement. In my opinion, this is going to cause some very uneven tire wear. I know that the independent suspension is fairly new to Champion and there aren't that many on the road. Are there any riders on this site that have this conversion and any of the problems we have with our bike? I'll try attaching a couple of photo's.

Thanks for your time.

[White Wall]

Do your rear shocks have a preload setting. That would cause the squatting. It does look like its toed out. I'm sure someone here has seen that before. Good Luck!

[1800 06 Champion Trike]

Check the bolts and bushings in the IRS.
My dealer said that there were some problems with these.
That IRS kit is new and will take awhile for them to figure out all the bugs.

[John Luciano]

Could be unweighted they are that way . I know the VW looks that way until it rolls along with weight in it.

[Gorilla]

Cool A Welcome aboard. I can not me sure from your discription, but are the top of the tire leaning towards the center or away from the center? If they are out then like John said it might be an issue that corrects itself under power like many VW trikes due. If they lean towards the center then there maybe an issue. There maybe an issue anyway if they are having alignment problems. I would have it looked at, by an installer that is familiar with that conversion.

[Cool-A]

Thanks to everyone for your comments. My wife and I are "Winter Texan's", our home is in British Columbia, Canada, and we spend the winter months in Mission, Texas. We had the kit installed by a company back home so it's hard for us to get anything done under warranty till we get back home in April. I was in touch with Champion and they said that there was nothing wrong with the kit and for me to adjust the preload on the shocks so that there is 3/8 of an inch of negative camber.

Yesterday I went down and bought myself a strap wrench as the adjusting collar on these shocks are hard to get at. I removed the rear wheel and adjusted the collar 1 turn at a time, checking the NC each time. I finally got to 4 turns of the collar and it's at 3/8 to 1/2 inch NC. I'll do the other wheel today and then take it for a test drive. I don't really like doing this work myself, especially with it still under warranty but there isn't any Champion installers in our area of Texas. My main reason for writing into the forum is to see if there are any other riders out there that have the Champion IRS kit on their bikes and how they like it.

From my experience so far, I sort of wish I would have went with the solid axle, at lease I would have had more adjustment on the shocks and the ride. A friend down here has a Goldwing with a DFT kit installed. When you press down on the back end of his bike there is quite a bit of spring, up and down movement, with our's, it barely moves, really a stiff suspension. I asked Champion if I could bring the bike out to California on our way home and have them exchange the IRS kit for a solid axle but I am getting lots of pass the buck and no straight answers. All they say is that there is nothing wrong with this kit. If there are other Champion IRS riders out there, I would appreciate hearing from them. Thanks.

[1800 06 Champion Trike]

Cool-A,
That's the reason I went with the Champion solid axel conversion. We get on it and ride. I don't have to worry about this setting or that setting. I have 3 freinds with the CSC conversion and they are always complaining about something not being right.

[Nauga Mok]

3/8 to 1/2" negative camber seems like a LOT when unloaded! One theing to keep in mind, after you make an adjustment, roll the trike a couple of feet so the suspension settles into it's new setting. When ever you make a change, it'll side load the tire untill it's rolled a foot or 2. When you do this you should actually see the camber change as the trike is moved. It's like jacking the rear of a VW off the ground. When it's set back down it'll have TONS of positive camber, but move it a couple of feet, it settles down to it's normal run position & the excess camber goes away.

NM

[Cool-A]

Thanks NM

Any information like that is always welcome. You are right, it does sound like a lot of negative camber. A tech at Champion is the one that told me there should be .7 degrees or 3/8 inch negative camber. I'll do as you say and roll the bike a bit or take it around the block and then check it again.

Regards

[TrikeTradersLLC]

This was one of the first things we noted, after getting our first IRS Champion all together, was the orientation of the rear wheels. We also thought the suspension was not sitting properly or something else was wrong. An email to my rep at Champion returned a long well written letter from their engineer/designer of the IRS kit, who reeled off all of his qualifications and experience with building race vehicles, then explained that it was designed this way on purpose.

The explanation was that the suspension and wheels sitting as such is part of the way the conversion resists outside roll in cornering. In our response, we were also concerned about premature tire wear, but that question was never directly addressed. Time will tell. Champion is a good company and their zero-flex kit is great, so hopefully they know better than we do on this one. We do seem to have to crank up the rear shocks to the max on every one that's ever come by to prevent them from bottoming out when ridden 2up though. Anyone else had that issue?

[CadtoChrome]

I have 3 freinds with the CSC conversion and they are always complaining about something not being right.

What are they saying isn't right?

Chuck

[wingking51]

I just brought my trike home from the Honda Dealer that does my service work. They are also a Champion Dealer. They did not sell or install my kit. The service manager informed me that there is a suspension problem in that there are no "Zero Degree Knuckles" installed on my trike. He told me that Champion tried to correct this problem by changing the springs.

He told me I have the yellow springs which is the right springs but that just changing springs will not correct the severe camber on the rear wheels. I have put on almost 7000 miles since starting to ride my trike in mid April and I still show very little tire wear on the outside 1.5 inches of tread and heavy wear on the inside tread edge of the tires. Svc mgr told me that I should have been contacted about this by installer or Champion.

It should be repaired as a warranty issue at no cost to me. This repair is supposed to correct the severe wheel camber. Without it being done he told me that there was something that would break on the suspension, but I don't remember what it is. To date, I have not been contacted by the installing dealer or Champion about this problem/correction. Has anyone else heard about the case of the missing knuckles?

On a side note, the Honda Dealer Service Mgr told me that they would do the necessary repairs if the installing dealer will not. Thats Real Service!:yes:

[Gorilla]

Wingking may I suggest that you contact Champion. Have your kit number handy. Tell them what the Honda dealer service manager told you. See if they will authorize him to do the correction. I would bet that the orginal dealer was the one that wa suppose to contact you and dropped the ball. It does sound like something that needs to be fixed even if the factory does no take care of it. That is a serious camber problem.