Stop That Slipping Clutch

[bdn56]

Originally Posted by reksul

I think it makes your trike lean uncontrollably on right hand turns.





just kidding.. but wouldn't that be a hoot.

Now that was funny

[Mr.Wizard]

OK..

From what I've heard, read, searched, thought about... My conclusion is the following.

I have a very hard clutch pull with the SE spring and the "easy pull" located at the end of my clutch cable is not an option for me. The only ones that will fit my bike cost about as much as the VPC. The "easy pull" for the TG is the same. I've found them between 150.00 to 175.00 that will fit. From what I understand, the 60.00 (or so) HD Easy Pull will not fit my trike or the TG's.

I'm not looking for something that will help me lock the clutch basket because I have the SE spring but if the VPC will reduce my clutch lever pull and guarentee me clutch basket lock up then I am looking for the one that gives me the best reduction on my clutch lever which seems to be the VP015-70T.

According to VT, the VP015-70T is what he has. We have almost the identical set up. Says his works great and is easy to pull so that is the number I will go with. Sometimes you have to take a leap of faith (after you research the heck out of it) and make the call. One of the nice things about this is it takes 15 minutes to install so it would take 15 minutes to take off. So, if I ever sell the trike I will do just that and put it on either my SE Fatboy or another bike/trike purchase.

Thanks for the hard work VT... I'll go with your suggestion. VP015-70T which I understand now to be the "low" unit you spoke of.

I would also recommend the same for BinIdaho and IHP.

Ted, you said which number you wanted but after reading VT's explanation would you like to reconsider your choice?

I've changed my order number on the above order page for UB. Please chime in and let me know your decisions so I can make the proper changes.

Thanks

[BinIdaho]

Dave,

You pick the proper one for me

IHP...one more purchase and we should be good to go

[1550vt]

REKSUL...(my buddy)...while I was working on my leaning Lehman and was making little progress...I jumped over to the clutch-pull issue in hopes of just fixing something. Ever had those times when you just wanted "something" to work? I gurantee all of you that the 70T solved my problem and is very comfortable. I realize some of you folks are packing more hp and torque than me, but I bet you rarely use it. Who wants to go around breaking drive-belts anyway! I use to tear the teeth off drive belts until I "matured".

I surely would not steer anyone in the wrong direction on purpose. Keep in mind that the folks at AIM may be recomending stuff to you from a high-performance angle. The mindset there is to provide a lifting system so a racer can run and pull that godzilla clutch and obtain 100% lock-up as RPM builds. The racer is not that much interested in reduced effort...he/she just wants one they can pull-in at all.

I think you would have to change your spring back to a stock spring to realize any reduction if you go with the 84T. The dynamics of it all points you to the 84T and stock spring, or the 70T with the SE spring. The 84T does give you more static clamping force at rest, but while you are at rest or a few hundred RPM...you don't need it. Reksul mentioned somewhere in this thread that we all "slip the clutch" anyway to some degree every time we take off, that's why it's called a clutch. You may have to alter the RPM at which you dump the clutch, but you will figure that out. No two bikes/trikes are the same and yours may feel different than the ones next to you in the parking lot. It's always been that way.

I really, really suggest the 70T. Look...we have all have pee'd away a lot more money for parts on our toys that did not work. I think this one is a much safer bet. I paid full retail for mine and have never regretted it. Take the discount from UB and you won't even risk what I did.

[Mr.Wizard]

Originally Posted by BinIdaho

Dave,

You pick the proper one for me

IHP...one more purchase and we should be good to go

Done

[Mr.Wizard]

Originally Posted by 1550vt

REKSUL...(my buddy)...while I was working on my leaning Lehman and was making little progress...I jumped over to the clutch-pull issue in hopes of just fixing something. Ever had those times when you just wanted "something" to work?

No pun intended but I think you are spinning your wheels with the tire conversation. If the tire sidewall was an issue you would encounter the increased lean turning left as well as to the right.

Sorry for the hijack, that was another thread.

[1550vt]

No problem reksul...I air my dirty laundry across all threads.

Yep...I think you are correct on the tire issue save one or two issues I can cure. The main one is wheel removal and gearing. If I drop to a 225 or a 215, I can keep my stock 15-inch wheels and reduce tire diameter an inch-or-so as well as thickness. All this will allow easy wheel removal. Right now with these fat 245's, it's a real bear to remove a wheel. The reduced diameter will change my gearing a tad...say couple-hundred RPM at 70 MPH. This bike has a Baker 6-speed overdrive in it and has always been geared much too high. This will help me out across all 6-gears and I would not have to change any sprockets. Will also drop the ride height down an inch-or-so, result in a front rake adjustment (though slight) and may even help handling. I expect I will go to a 215 or 225.

[Mr.Wizard]

Take a flashlight and a couple of concrete blocks and head downtown. You'll find that mustang you are looking for.

OK, that wasn't funny.

Drop that compensating gear down a few teeth. Bryan went from a 34 to a 30 tooth on his 08. Now he has this "Joker" grin on his face that won't wash off. He's on his way here for a cam change and a Dyno. Let's see how big his grin will get... HAHAHA

[Ironhorsepilot]

Ok, VT, I have a stock spring, not a SE spring as far as I know. I would assume that SE spring would be an upgrade? So what you are saying is that I need the 84T?

Barb, only one???? I have several more things on my list. I want an air horn, too.

Dave, Just get me what you get Barbara. I can't think about this anymore.

[Mr.Wizard]

Originally Posted by Ironhorsepilot

Ok, VT, I have a stock spring, not a SE spring as far as I know. I would assume that SE spring would be an upgrade? So what you are saying is that I need the 84T?

Barb, only one???? I have several more things on my list. I want an air horn, too.

Dave, Just get me what you get Barbara. I can't think about this anymore.

I understand... this is getting a little long.

The TG has a heaver spring than a stock bike. This is why your hubby says he doesn't like it. Although mine is a Motor Trike I have ridden a TG that the pull was heavier than let's say C's deluxe or her Dyna but not as bad as my SE Fatboy with a hydraulic clutch. It is not as hard to pull as my trike with the SE spring.

I would recommend that you get a VP015-70T which will give you the best reduction on your clutch lever pull. Your TG clutch spring and clutch plates are designed to carry the trike load but it comes with a price. A heavy lever pull. The VPC will help with extending the life of your clutch and the VP015-70T will make it easier to pull your clutch lever.

VT... if this isn't right please weigh in here. I think the VP015-70T will be perfect for their TG's.


A little history on the air horn. C's deluxe has one. After I serviced it one day I took it out for a test ride. While I was first in line at the red light waiting on a green there were two cars/trucks waiting to turn left across the intersection from me. There is not a turn arrow at this light but the first guy in a truck kicked it and turned in front of me. That was OK because I saw what he was going to do and delayed my start from the green light but... There was a lady in a SUV on the cell phone trying to play follow the leader and tried to pull in front of me while I was already in the intersection. Soooooo.. yes, I hit that air horn.

She slammed on the brakes and darn near tossed that cell phone out of the truck while she jumped about 6" off her seat. Yes, they work and now have one on my trike.

If you get one from HD you also have to purchase a special mount for it. The air horn will not just replace your old horn as it will not install without the special brackets which are extra $$.

[1550vt]

HOLD IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Everybody sit tight here. I had just gone out to service my ride after this past trip and noticed a "little" rattling noise coimg from my primary. I popped off the cover and checked everything around the VPC and nothing is loose or rubbing. I have a clue that it may be a washer (called a spider) in there that mounts loose. It can't go anywhere, but if we have a rattle-issue here...I need to check on that before we order anything. Dosen't rattle all the time, just at a certain rpm...sort of like a loose pipe heat shield.

I have e-mailed AIM as to what they think this may be. I will get back as soon as I have resolved this. It has no affect on the operation, but I think you would not be happy with any rattle.

The HD folks installed a new stator in this trike just before I left for my trip and it very well may be something they did, but let me see first.

MORE LATER!

[Mr.Wizard]

Check that compensator bolt. Bet it's loose. Get it tight before it starts banging.

[BinIdaho]

Originally Posted by Ironhorsepilot

Ok, VT, I have a stock spring, not a SE spring as far as I know. I would assume that SE spring would be an upgrade? So what you are saying is that I need the 84T?

Barb, only one???? I have several more things on my list. I want an air horn, too.

Dave, Just get me what you get Barbara. I can't think about this anymore.

Air Horn? You are out of control Off topic, but it's costing me bookoo bucks for Corvette repairs....but, that just means more 'chrome cash' from HD Visa.

IHP, what's the P/N for the airhorn and bracket? Maybe get from Chicago Harley and save a couple $$?

Does it ever end?

[1550vt]

Ironhorse...I'd go with the 70T on that stock spring. If your clutch is not slipping now...it should not slip with this gizmo and should give you a full 40% reduction.

Reksul...this thing does have Mustang wheels on it. Might not be a bad idea for me to stake out the Wal-Mart parking lot late one night and see if I can find me a better set.

Now for the airhorns......that topic is probably under the 18-wheeler thread. However, I have installed one once for a guy. I also removed it when he kept sneaking up behind us blowing the ^&%$ thing!

Back to the subject matter. I have looked at my vpc and am confident that it is not broken-or-something. I have talked to Hero at AIM (I am only pronouncing the name like he does. I know it is spelled differently, but I can't write in Japanese.) Anyhow, he says they have never had any complaints and have never heard about any noise. I have that problem a lot, especially with Lehman and Harley Dealers, so I don't put much faith it that. The thing sits out on the end of the clutch just behind the derby cover and any sound will likely be amplified. It still functions fine and no parts were dangling about down in the primary. I may have some issue down in the clutch and nothing is rubbing. I think I told ya'll I had a new stator installed in this thing and that was after I had installed the VPC. They would have taken all that apart to get to the stator. Maybe we just need to blame it on HD.

I would say just get on with it. I may fool around with this thing a bit more and even take it out to make sure the noise follows it. I truly believe that if they had some issue with these things it would have surfaced by now. I also think that Hero would have told me if they were suppose to be a bit noisey.

I think I have an anomaly here and don't let it stop the show.

Reksul, I have been to the "loose comp nut" thingy more than once and this is not a loose comp nut.

[Ironhorsepilot]

.

IHP, what's the P/N for the airhorn and bracket? Maybe get from Chicago Harley and save a couple $$?

Does it ever end?[/QUOTE]

Have no idea what I want yet, and yes, I am outta control and doubt it will end anytime soon.

[tmigala]

reksul/vt

I am going to go along with your in depth research. I will go with the 70T as recommended. My Police 103 still has the original Clutch spring which according to the part manuals is the same in the Police as in the standard touring. If I need to I can go back and install the SE spring later. I would like to thank you guys for your time on this. My original selection was based on the listing on the web site, but using the logic that these are built normally for high performance engines I see the logic in the 70T suggestion. Thanks again.

Is someone going to PM me with the details on how and where to pay?

Ted

[Mr.Wizard]

Ted, yes....

We will get that info to you as soon as UB gets a chance to reply.

More research is underway this weekend now that we have some time to really scratch our heads and open our eyes without work interfering.

I truly believe that we are going to exhaust all measures and confer with the factory a little more first because there are so many of us affected.

Hang tight.. more later.

[1550vt]

ALL...I want to add one last post here concerning the noise I had mentioned. I have determined that my problem was not the VPC. I removed the VPC completely and went back stock....the noise remained with the Trike. So, it's not an issue with the VPC. AIM has told me thay have had this product on the market for 5-years and have never had a problem.

ALL CLEAR and I am sorry for the scare. I just wanted to raise a red flsg before you all invested in something that may be problematic. The red flag has been lowered and the green flag is no waving.

[Mr.Wizard]

moved again......

[tmigala]

reksul. The 06-07 update is good by me, unless we get a different suggestion for the 103 motor with S&S 510G cams.

[Ironhorsepilot]

Hubby adjusted my clutch today. I HATE it. It is tight again and what little I rode, my shoulders, neck and hand are sore as heck. When he adjusted it before, it was just right. Now he doesn't understand what I am telling him on where I need the friction point. He did get it out a little more, but the lever is still very tight pull.

I need this pressure clutch soon! I can't ride this thing for long like it is now.

[Mr.Wizard]

Final update and ready to order 06-08-2009

Reksul = VP015-70T

tmigala = VP015-70T

BinIdaho = VP015-70T

IHP = VP015-70T



UB, Dave.. we are ready to order and need your payment information. Please PM each of us with your address or other so we can complete the deal and THANK YOU again.


Did I miss anyone?? Please chime in and I'll keep correcting this page.

[Ironhorsepilot]

Thanks Dave!!! I have a trip coming up in a few weeks, so need to do this ASAP.

[ultraboy]

Thanks for getting this together Dave, I've been way to busy at work and home to do much else. OK, here ya go:

VP015-70T my price is $184 each. Please add 10 bucks, for the double shipping, and if you are using PayPal, add 3% that they are going to charge me to receive the $. I have ordered 5 of them today, and Toshi told me a week, plus another few days in the UPS system.

So, send the $ to me via personal check or M.O. to:

Dave Bickford
901 Eugene Street
Porter, In. 46304

Or PayPal at dbickford@aslfilter.com
which is my real email addy, if anyone has any questions.

Again, Thanks to Reksul for staying on top of this!

Ultra

[Mr.Wizard]

Originally Posted by ultraboy

I have ordered 5 of them today, and Toshi told me a week, plus another few days in the UPS system.

Just so we are all on the same page... we are only ordering 4, see above, not 5 unless that is a different order or you have a fifth we don't know about.

I'm writing a check and you should have it in a day or so from tomorrow. Mail has already come and gone for today. My shipping addy is on the check.

Thanks again Dave

[1550vt]

$184 is a GOOD DEAL. I sprung for the full $245, so all you folks owe me and Ultraboy a "favorite beverage" each. Throw in one for Reksul too. Me for starting all this crap on a thread, Ultraboy for doing the deal and Reksul for all the leg work. I hope all of you are pleased and I am sure you will be.

[Mr.Wizard]

Better give us your address then... especially if this doesn't work!

Yeah, yeah.. pulling your chain.

I appreciate your input on this and after all the research and reading the positive comments I have no doubt we will see some satisfaction on the lever pull load and we will also benefit from no clutch chatter or slippage. Our clutch should last forever and.... we can take it right back out if we sell too.. that works for me.

Thanks again VT. Your the best!

[ultraboy]

184 is the dealer price, doesn't get too much better than that, unless I bought 50. I'm getting 5, because I have another guy who wants one. I really have not sold much of their stuff. In the beginning, they did not want you to sell to individuals for self-install, they wanted you, the dealer to install. That and their discounts aren't that great, 25% ain't no biggie.

[tmigala]

Dave, My payment is inbound via PayPal. Thanks to all for the GREAT TEAMWORK for us. It sure is nice to have a group that you can feel good about being a member of. Thanks, Dave, VT and Reksul

Ted

[Ironhorsepilot]

Thanks, Ultra Dave, Reksul Dave and VT!!!! My payment has been sent by paypal!!!!! PHEW!!!!

[ultraboy]

OK, back from my mini trike vacation! I checked with Toshi, and they still have not shipped the Vp clutches. Should ship by the end of the week. Next, I have received $ from everybody except BinIdaho. For Reksul, IHP, and tmigala, thanks, and yours will ship as soon as I get my hands on them!

See ya in the funny papers!

Ultra

[BinIdaho]

Dave (UB)

Eeek!! I just saw this thread.....check's in the mail.

Barbara

[ultraboy]

Excellent!

[tmigala]

Thanks Dave

[ultraboy]

Update:
They are in the UPS system with a delivery date (to my shop) of 6/23/09. UPS usually gets here around noon, so I should be shipping them out the same day. TonyD, yours too!

Have a Happy!

[BinIdaho]

Thanks Dave!

[Ironhorsepilot]

Great! Should be here in time for our trip and hopefully a few days before, so I can test the waters!

[Mr.Wizard]

Ladies and Gentlemen...

Wanted to say a special Thank You to VT and UB.

Got my VPC today, installed it and off I went. My 40 lb pull clutch is no more. Feels lighter than stock!!

Clutch locks up when it is supposed to and all is good in the world. It has a little different feel when pulling in the clutch at shifting RPM's but I got used to in minutes. VT had already said that would happen. Very nice.

I did take my time with it. Followed the instructions on the back step by step. It took me 30 minutes (sorry VT, didn't break your 15 min record) but the hardest part was cutting out my full circle gasket under the primary derby.

If you have the o-ring type you will have no issues with the cutting. The full circle gasket disk is made of gasket material which covers an aluminum inner shield and it takes a very sharp pair of surgical scissors to cut it and you had better be wearing gloves or it will eat you up.

Thanks again guys... job well done.

[1550vt]

U are entirely welcome dude and I hope everybody has the same experience. It is a little science-wonder and I have over 4,000 miles on mine without a single issue. Yep....I cheated and actually purchased a few spare o-rings to keep since HD went to the gasket. I had some leaking issues on a couple of bikes trying to use the gasket. Mostly EVO's with only the three derby cover screws. If you don't have that gasket to trim, the install time is about 1/2 of that 30-minutes.

[tmigala]

Glad to hear about the success. Mine is not scheduled for delivery until Monday. Ted

[Ironhorsepilot]

I got my VPC yesterday, but seem to have a problem. The package has the 84T checked off. Have you all checked to make sure you have the right clutch?

I guess I need to see how I can resolve this>

Thanks,
Joan

[Mr.Wizard]

Originally Posted by Ironhorsepilot

I got my VPC yesterday, but seem to have a problem. The package has the 84T checked off. Have you all checked to make sure you have the right clutch?

I guess I need to see how I can resolve this>

Thanks,
Joan

Joan... I went to the garage this morning... I didn't even think to check the number I was so excited but you are right.. My package is checked to be the 84T as well. But my VPC is black which indicated the 84S model per the site if they still are separated by colors.

My pull feels good compared to what it used to be by far. Went to the SE Fatboy and and tested my pull.. it is a heavier pull than what I have on the trike but not much. I went to Carol's Deluxe... very light and much lighter than the trike. I can pull hers with my little finger but it has always been a featherweight clutch pull since new.

The 84T doesn't give the same relief as the 70T per their site advertisements. Did anyone else get the wrong one?

Look on the VPC, not the package, and see if there's a part number on it. I would but I would have to take mine apart to look.

[Tonyd]

Mine is stamped 70 and package is checked VP70T

[Mr.Wizard]

tony

did you order the 70T and is yours black in color?

[Ironhorsepilot]

Mine is stamped with a big 84 on it and it is black.

joan

[Mr.Wizard]

Originally Posted by Ironhorsepilot

Mine is stamped with a big 84 on it and it is black.

joan

OK

The 84T is working on my trike but if the pull can be reduced even more then Carol wanted to learn how to ride it... hummmm

I have no idea if UB is back or not... all I can do is send him a PM or email from the site. Let me see if he will respond and tell us what to do.

[ultraboy]

The 84 is correct for all of you with 103" motors. Use the stock spring. The 70 was sent to tony, who has an 88" motor.

[tmigala]

I knew Dave would have the correct answer. Thanks again Dave.

Ted

[ultraboy]

I just had a nice long conversation with Reksul regarding the 70 to 84 differences. First of all, let me remind you all that the VP series was designed to stop slipping clutches. The fact that the VP pushes on the spring slightly closer to the center has the added benefit of more leverage, making clutch lever effort reduced. (a side benefit) After selling and installing (most) of the 900-odd VP clutches I've sold since 2003, I would never put a 70 in anything other than a completely stock 88" motor. That said, I took the liberty of sending you the 84, which, with a stock spring is for UP TO 103" motors. In my discussion with Reksul, he now understands that if he were to change his 84 with a 70, clutch lever effort would be the same as he has now, because he has the SE spring. If he were to put in a stock spring, he would then benefit both ways, i.e. no slip and even lighter lever effort. Note his post above, his lever effort did go down, even with that heavy SE spring.
OK, bottom line.... If any of you want the 70 instead of the 84, send it back and I'll send you a 70, but that is not my recommendation. If you want your money back, send the clutch back and I'll refund you promptly.

ALSO, in the future I'll keep the he!! out of these discussions.

[Mr.Wizard]

No good deed goes unpunished Dave...

Thanks for the explanation and I enjoyed our conversation.

For everyone else... I'm hard headed and it took him a long time for him to convince me. I do now agree with UB's conclusion.. if you have the stock spring you will be fine.