What I did to get rid of the excessive heat on my 2011 Tri-Glide

[Bigbill]

who makes the kit to raise the fuel tank? lb p/n, cost

Touring Tank Lift Kits
One of our great sponsors.

[DK Custom Products]

DK, I have a 2013 TriGlide w/a 120r crate motor that currently runs in the area of 230 degrees and have done/am doing the same tactics as you to maintain my oil temp in this area - I.e. Removed lower fairings and heat shields on both sides,installed Wards Fans, Mobil 1, Wards 160 degree thermostat w/OEM Oil Cooler. My next step (if needed) will be to replace the OEM oil cooler with a twin fan Ultra Cool oil cooler.

It runs awesome and is an adrenalin rush in the Trike!!

Roger

Man, that thing must really be a blast to ride. When I first got mine and they were having to do the top end rebuild, I seriously flirted with the idea of and S&S. But I am happy now, only thing that may be in the future is a plugged/welded crank...and only if mine twists.

Touring Tank Lift Kits
One of our great sponsors.

Thanks man!

Kevin

[geezerglide11441]

Yes DK, it is a hoot to ride but I do not run it hard. My other ride is a 2013 V-Rod Muscle and sometime it is a hard choice of which to ride!! Each is fun in their own right, wouldn't want to have to choose which one to sell when that time comes.

Roger

[GARYD]

I'm with Iboos.

If I had to do all those mods, I'd $hit can the whole thing. Way more trouble then it's worth. Now there's more things that can go wrong.

I completely disagree with getting oil temps below 200*

[geezerglide11441]

First of all GaryD, you would probably not made the choice to install the 120r Crate motor, which is basically a high compression race motor which produces quite a bit more heat than the stock version that comes in the Trike. Therefore I expected to have do deal with the increased heat characteristics and have gladly made the mods mentioned and have never bitched about the need to do so!

To each his own as they say, and for the joy of riding this Trike I would do it again!! Considerably more fun than riding the stock version which I only put 300 miles on before opting for the motor change!

I hope you are enjoying your ride because I sure am enjoying mine, heat and all!!pepper

Roger

[DK Custom Products]

I'm with Iboos.

If I had to do all those mods, I'd $hit can the whole thing. Way more trouble then it's worth. Now there's more things that can go wrong.

I completely disagree with getting oil temps below 200*

lol, I know that feeling well!

But now that it is done, am super happy with it. btw, I put some of the hardest miles a TG has ever seen on it...and nothing has gone wrong.

Click HERE for Alaska trip on TG.

I looked back thru this thread, could not find anyone talking about getting oil temps below 200*. ???

Kevin

[Moneywoes]

Kevin,
Any problem with fuel line length or fuel pump wiring harness length when you put the 1.5" tank lift on?

Ken

[Buckin']

Just a friendly suggestion to those tired of trying to get their TriGlides upgraded with mod after mod.
Get yourselves a 14 model.

- - - Updated - - -

lol, I know that feeling well!

But now that it is done, am super happy with it. btw, I put some of the hardest miles a TG has ever seen on it...and nothing has gone wrong.

Click HERE for Alaska trip on TG.

I looked back thru this thread, could not find anyone talking about getting oil temps below 200*. ???

Kevin

So, the truth comes out. You did that whole trip to Alaska to be able to say "I BTDT" so buy this from me?
JK, it's a joke. Please do not wad panties.

[DK Custom Products]

Kevin,
Any problem with fuel line length or fuel pump wiring harness length when you put the 1.5" tank lift on?

Ken

No issue at all. Plenty of extra hose/wire for a 1.5" or even a 2"...the real issue is handlebar to tank clearance.

Kevin

- - - Updated - - -

Just a friendly suggestion to those tired of trying to get their TriGlides upgraded with mod after mod.
Get yourselves a 14 model.

So, the truth comes out. You did that whole trip to Alaska to be able to say "I BTDT" so buy this from me?
JK, it's a joke. Please do not wad panties.

Believe me...I thought about the 14's when they came out and all the work I had done....water under the bridge now, for me. Plus, I just really don't like the lowers.

Will be interesting to see if/how they "twin-cool" the Street Glides and Road Kings.

yeah, well, there were times on the trip I thought for sure the bike was going to tear-up/break. I gotta say that I am VERY impressed with the durability of the the TG chassis...really all part of the TG minus the engine....but I won't own any Twin Cam engine (2 wheels or 3 wheels) without a warranty.

[DK Custom Products]

Well, it has been a long time since I updated this thread.

Since then I have traded my '11 Tri-Glide for a '14. Not because anything was wrong with the '11 (after I got it straightened out), but the dealership offered me such a good deal on trade-in for the new '14, it just made sense for me.

You can see what I did initially on the '14 at this thread-

http://www.triketalk.com/forum/threa...he-differences


And then what we did with the '14 when it was our "Project Bike" for last year, at this thread-

http://www.triketalk.com/forum/threa...w-Lots-of-Pics


Kevin

[1dn5up]

Kevin, I remember you mentioning some were , as weather the front air fangs did or did not effect the air flo into the DK oil cooler, being mounted behind it. You had a test with and with out the fangs mounted . Do you recall the results ? Tks.

A wind tunnel with smoke would be the cats a** with all the air deflectors mounted.

[Capt.Bob]

lol, I know that feeling well!

But now that it is done, am super happy with it. btw, I put some of the hardest miles a TG has ever seen on it...and nothing has gone wrong.

Click HERE for Alaska trip on TG.

I looked back thru this thread, could not find anyone talking about getting oil temps below 200*. ???

Kevin

Kevin, It is interesting that your observations about reducing actual engine temperatures seem to be getting a limited amount of traction with a lot of folks that are reading these posts. Those of us who own the HD products are faced with several conundrums. I don't think anybody that has owned a TC103 does not realize that the engines can get really, really hot during some times of the year throughout the country. One of the big problems however is that the MoCo threatens their customers with voided warranties and/or ESP's if they take extra measures to insure cooler running engines. I know that you mention taking off certain pieces at time of warranty work to avoid this hassle but most of us who are really concerned about this are riding our bikes/trikes all over the country and don't really have the luxury of being able to remove parts on the fly.

As Mykneesbehurtin mentioned and I can confirm, the new M8 engines with increased cubes and essentially the same cooling strategies for their trikes as the 2016 TC models seem to actually be running hotter in terms of how frequently and long the EITMS are activating. The felt heat to the rider has definitely been reduced but many of our concerns are for the longevity of the engines. I did recently see a TC103-engined Tri Glide that was being sold with over 100k miles on it and wondered what had to be done to get it that far down the road?

I wish there was some convenient way to make the mods that we have data on that change the operating temperatures and improve performance such as gas mileage but feel hamstrung both from the MoCo and secondarily the EPA which is hawking all mods in an effort to control rogue emission problems caused by engine/drive train modifications.

[Bill G]

Kevin, It is interesting that your observations about reducing actual engine temperatures seem to be getting a limited amount of traction with a lot of folks that are reading these posts. Those of us who own the HD products are faced with several conundrums. I don't think anybody that has owned a TC103 does not realize that the engines can get really, really hot during some times of the year throughout the country. One of the big problems however is that the MoCo threatens their customers with voided warranties and/or ESP's if they take extra measures to insure cooler running engines. I know that you mention taking off certain pieces at time of warranty work to avoid this hassle but most of us who are really concerned about this are riding our bikes/trikes all over the country and don't really have the luxury of being able to remove parts on the fly.

As Mykneesbehurtin mentioned and I can confirm, the new M8 engines with increased cubes and essentially the same cooling strategies for their trikes as the 2016 TC models seem to actually be running hotter in terms of how frequently and long the EITMS are activating. The felt heat to the rider has definitely been reduced but many of our concerns are for the longevity of the engines. I did recently see a TC103-engined Tri Glide that was being sold with over 100k miles on it and wondered what had to be done to get it that far down the road?

I wish there was some convenient way to make the mods that we have data on that change the operating temperatures and improve performance such as gas mileage but feel hamstrung both from the MoCo and secondarily the EPA which is hawking all mods in an effort to control rogue emission problems caused by engine/drive train modifications.

Bob,


All great points... I live in the Liberal EPA crazy state of California. Now most venders will not even sell non EPA stuff to us guys in this state. The Harley shops will not period unless EPA stamp or approval is on part or tuner.

I have high hopes for the new M8 as far as running cooler goes. So far the M8 seems to be a big improvement over the 103TC. All the mods mentioned as great as they may be are going to become a real issue for owners in states like California. Trust me it is going to get worse here on dealers and riders. Some don't believe this but it's coming, already here.

Not every Harley out there has all of these mods most have mufflers or an exaust system stage 1 and some type of tuner and a fair percentage are still stock maybe slip ons.

California gets real hot and you just don't see Harley's burnt up everywhere. Some of these bikes are pretty high mileage to. Are the more exstreme mods necessary? No, but they are nice and do cool things down some.

As mentioned in some of the threads cooling oil temps to much can can be an issue. Of course getting oil to hot can be a big big deal. I just don't see Harley's burnt up everywhere nor have I heard of any or seen any. I personally hear the complaints about felt heat on hot days more than anything. (We are sitting on top of air cooled motors) there is going to be a little heat.

As the MoCo moves forward they as well as all motorcyle manufactures are going to be held to the highest EPA standards. We as Harley owners may not like this but I am afraid it's a fact.

How far guys want to go to buck this is up to them. With that said I am not knocking anyone for doing so. Just don't do it blindly.


Ride Safe All,
Bill G

[Bill G]

I guess I'm just lucky, my 2013 is like the day I picked it up at the dealer, It does not run hot, it does not have a oil temp. gauge on it, and I don't know what the eng. temp. is and don't care, my wife has never complained about the heat, I have never had a shoe melt or my rt. leg turn red from the heat. I live in Ga. it gets hot here in the summer, we ride some times in town and some times on the hi-way,.... I just ride and enjoy it, no heat problems here, I guess I'm just having to much fun to notice it .

Love it Brother...... us too...

Ride Safe,
Bill G

[DK Custom Products]

Kevin, I remember you mentioning some were , as weather the front air fangs did or did not effect the air flo into the DK oil cooler, being mounted behind it. You had a test with and with out the fangs mounted . Do you recall the results ? Tks.

A wind tunnel with smoke would be the cats a** with all the air deflectors mounted.

Yes, a wind tunnel would be a fun tool!

Info I have regarding fork fangs-

They are Very effective at keeping turbulent wind off of the rider and passenger.

Unfortunately, they are very effective at keeping wind of the air cooled engine also. Multiple tests, on multiple bikes and trikes, show that fork fangs increase engine temps by a minimum of 20-25*.

In the winter this is not so bad, but in warmer months, on Twin Cams, this is a significant negative impact...increasing felt heat, and a big number to overcome in keeping engine temps out of the dangerous area.

Using a Tank Lift and Cooling Deflector Wings will reduce turbulent air on the rider and passenger, but only at about 70% effectiveness of fork fangs. HOWEVER, they will decrease engine temps by 18-25*.

So with a TL & CDW's, instead of fork fangs, you will have 70% as good effectiveness in regards to turbulent air, BUT you will have 38-50* drop in engine temps!

I do not recall how much, if any, the fork fangs hurt oil cooler effectiveness. If any, it is not by much. The oil cooler does not need a lot of air flowing thru it to dissipate the heat off the fins, and the shape of the lower catches air and feeds it thru the vent in areas Not blocked by the fork fangs.

I used to run fork fangs on my bikes, see pic below, but after seeing how much it raises engine temps compared to the TL & CDW's, I would not even consider it during warm months.



LINK to Report on Twin Cams, heat problems & solutions.
Kevin

[DK Custom Products]

Kevin, It is interesting that your observations about reducing actual engine temperatures seem to be getting a limited amount of traction with a lot of folks that are reading these posts. Those of us who own the HD products are faced with several conundrums. I don't think anybody that has owned a TC103 does not realize that the engines can get really, really hot during some times of the year throughout the country. One of the big problems however is that the MoCo threatens their customers with voided warranties and/or ESP's if they take extra measures to insure cooler running engines. I know that you mention taking off certain pieces at time of warranty work to avoid this hassle but most of us who are really concerned about this are riding our bikes/trikes all over the country and don't really have the luxury of being able to remove parts on the fly.

As Mykneesbehurtin mentioned and I can confirm, the new M8 engines with increased cubes and essentially the same cooling strategies for their trikes as the 2016 TC models seem to actually be running hotter in terms of how frequently and long the EITMS are activating. The felt heat to the rider has definitely been reduced but many of our concerns are for the longevity of the engines. I did recently see a TC103-engined Tri Glide that was being sold with over 100k miles on it and wondered what had to be done to get it that far down the road?

I wish there was some convenient way to make the mods that we have data on that change the operating temperatures and improve performance such as gas mileage but feel hamstrung both from the MoCo and secondarily the EPA which is hawking all mods in an effort to control rogue emission problems caused by engine/drive train modifications.

Capt. Bob,

We get a lot of inquires on heat related issues...1-2 everyday. I think there is a certain amount of hesitancy by many to bring up the problems they are experiencing with heat in an open forum due to having seen how others have done so in the past and been pilloried by individuals that remind them they are riding with an internal combustion engine between their legs, what do they expect, etc.

The other factor is that HD has done a Fantastic job at getting the heat high enough to meet EPA standards, and at the same time building an engine that will not burn oil or blow-up, even when the heat is so much that cylinders get distorted.

The subject of heat with the Twin Cams is multi-faceted-

1. Felt Heat
2. Heat that reduces performance
3. Heat that damages the engine

The above 3 are distinctly different. Then on top of that you have owners of Twin Cams that have varying experiences and priorities.

Felt Heat is very subjective.

Felt heat has never bothered me, even when the engine was so hot that HD replaced the entire top end under warranty because it self-destructed from so much heat.

On the other hand, I was just talking a few days ago with someone that was riding their Trike (with long pants) and when they got home there was a burn on their calf the size of a softball.

Felt Heat varies from person to person, and for those it bothers, we feel the most important thing is to reduce the actual heat, which will reduce felt heat. There are also some things that can be done to reduce felt heat, independent of reducing actual heat. They can be seen in this REPORT.


Heat that reduces performance: Performance is a priority to some, and others don't care. For those that do care, there are a couple relevant factors.

1. Cold air intakes produce more power. Without getting into a ton of details, the colder the air is, the more oxygen is in each cubic foot of air. The more oxygen introduced into the intake, the more power your engine will produce. There are tens of thousands of pages data on this subject that are as close as a google search to anyone who wants to read about it.

Another way to "prove to yourself" that colder air produces more power. If you ride on an 80* day, and then ride the same on a 50* day...most will note that their bike feels like it has crisper, stronger acceleration on the cooler day...this is because of the denser air, with more oxygen per cubic foot.

So anything to get the air going into the intake to be cooler, via a cooler engine, and an External Breather System, will be beneficial for performance.

2. At around 250-255* the metal in the engine is expanding at different rates. This results in looser tolerances, which results in not as much power being generated with each combustion stroke. Keeping the engine heat below 250* is beneficial for performance.

3. The vicious cycle- When performance drops due to hot air going into the intake, or the engine being 250* or higher, more throttle has to be introduced to move the same speed done the road....this in turn creates even more heat, which requires more throttle, which creates more heat, etc.

Again, this is not a priority for many. As long as their trike gets them on down the road, all is good. But for those interested in performance, the above should be taken into consideration.


Heat that damages the engine. HD has done a fantastic job at building an engine that will meet EPA standards (air cooled & Twin Cooled).

One of the main methods used to meet those EPA standards is to create a tremendous amount of heat to burn the hydrocarbons, reducing emissions.

It is completely normal for a Twin Cam cylinder head temperature to run 285-340*. Most any dealership will tell you this, and a simple survey of stock bikes will show this. It is normal.

BUT, it is not right. At around 270* damage is occurring to the cylinders, pistons, valves and valve seats.

Back in the day, that amount of heat would have led to ovaled out cylinders that burned oil, burnt valve seats that did not seal, and usually a catastrophic failure.

Nowadays it still ovals out the cylinders, but with newer, better oil rings, even with ovaled out cylinders the engines do not burn oil. It still burns the valve seats, but they do not clatter, they keep running.

Again, that HD designed an engine to generate that much heat, and keep running, is quite the feat.

But, even though it continues to run, there is a substantial drop in power. This is because, even though the oil ring keeps it from burning oil, the compression rings and the valves do NOT keep the compression up where it was before the heat damage occurred.

This drop occurs slowly, over a period of time. Most folks do not even realize that their bike/trike has less power now than it did 1 or 2 years ago, before the damage occurred.

*****
I have run out of time today. I will finish the Heat that damages engines, and talk about the M8's, and Bills concern about dealerships and warranties soon...I hope within the next 24 hours.

Kevin

[Bill G]

Kevin,

If your referring to the statement below that I stated above it was never meant to pilloried anyone. It was stated in the context of what was said just being a simple truth. Water cooled bikes also put off a fair amount of heat on a 100 degree day and can get uncomfortable.

My Quote,
(We are sitting on top of air cooled motors) there is going to be a little heat.

In the context that I stated it, it was only meant to confirm air cooled motors run a little warmer and nothing more was meant nor was it meant to attack or ridicule anyone.

With Respect,
Bill G

[Fozworth]

Kevin,

If your referring to the statement below that I stated above it was never meant to pilloried anyone. It was stated in the context of what was said just being a simple truth. Water cooled bikes also put off a fair amount of heat on a 100 degree day and can get uncomfortable.

My Quote,
(We are sitting on top of air cooled motors) there is going to be a little heat.

In the context that I stated it, it was only meant to confirm air cooled motors run a little warmer and nothing more was meant nor was it meant to attack or ridicule anyone.

With Respect,
Bill G

I kind a don't think Kevin had you in mind when he said that Bill. Kevin spent considerable time with me and I'm sure many others trying to cool down our rides for a long time. I asked tons of questions when my issue was at it's worse because it got startling hot on Interstate and started losing power. I couldn't hold speed at 80mph in 6th gear. I had to drop to 5th.

Worse still was the heat coming up my right side and the fact my wife was cooking on her right side from foot to chest.

With Kevin's help we got it pretty well straightened out. (But I still want a 2017 like you)!

A few times I got the "put your purse down and suck it up buttercup" vib from some in a different forum but it didn't offend me. It does confuse me though how it is that not everyone had the same ungodly heat we felt before making the adjustments we made.

Keep up the informative posts about that 2017 please!!

[DK Custom Products]

Kevin,

If your referring to the statement below that I stated above it was never meant to pilloried anyone. It was stated in the context of what was said just being a simple truth. Water cooled bikes also put off a fair amount of heat on a 100 degree day and can get uncomfortable.

My Quote,
(We are sitting on top of air cooled motors) there is going to be a little heat.

In the context that I stated it, it was only meant to confirm air cooled motors run a little warmer and nothing more was meant nor was it meant to attack or ridicule anyone.

With Respect,
Bill G

Hey Bill,

NOOOO, I was not referring to what you said, or even thinking of your post.

Not too much pillorying (ridicule) goes on in this forum at all. But there are some other forums that are merciless.

Here are a few quotes of what I was thinking of when I wrote that-

"this is what happens when non bikers and California crybabies want to own a status symbol like a Harley and have no business being near a Harley or the lifestyle. if you are too stupid to know that you are buying an air cooled engine bike then frankly you really deserve what you get…they aren’t made to sit in California hwy traffic or any traffic and will get hot. ride the damn thing right and you wont have a problem."

"This is the ‘nobody told me the coffee I just bought was hot so I burned myself’ nonsense all over again."

"Harley Davidson (and a lot of other companies) wouldn't even exist if the pussy-assed-nimrods we have today where around 50 years ago."

"who doesn't know that having an exposed engine inches from body parts could be hot? If you can't take the heat get off the bike and get a Prius"


The above are not even the tip of the iceberg...but you get the idea.

This is a great forum, where respect is common, and appreciated.

Kevin

[Capt.Bob]

Hey Bill,

NOOOO, I was not referring to what you said, or even thinking of your post.

Not too much pillorying (ridicule) goes on in this forum at all. But there are some other forums that are merciless.

Here are a few quotes of what I was thinking of when I wrote that-

"this is what happens when non bikers and California crybabies want to own a status symbol like a Harley and have no business being near a Harley or the lifestyle. if you are too stupid to know that you are buying an air cooled engine bike then frankly you really deserve what you get…they aren’t made to sit in California hwy traffic or any traffic and will get hot. ride the damn thing right and you wont have a problem."

"This is the ‘nobody told me the coffee I just bought was hot so I burned myself’ nonsense all over again."

"Harley Davidson (and a lot of other companies) wouldn't even exist if the pussy-assed-nimrods we have today where around 50 years ago."

"who doesn't know that having an exposed engine inches from body parts could be hot? If you can't take the heat get off the bike and get a Prius"


The above are not even the tip of the iceberg...but you get the idea.

This is a great forum, where respect is common, and appreciated.

Kevin

OK Kevin, I think we can all agree pretty much that there are a bunch of pompous dipsticks that really wouldn't know their ass from a clutch pack. However, getting back to your promise to opine on warranty issues. I am still looking forward to hearing your thoughts on this particular issue which distresses me greatly. The MoCo and their ESP subsidiary have firmly dicked with us in terms of making any mods on our Harleys lest we suffer the slings and arrows of banishment to the blacklist and no corporate support if/when expensive parts grenade. I don't see anyway around their legaleze and would prefer to keep my warranty/ESP intact at the cost of doing the right thing which is really bizarre to say. Capt. Bob