Push Pull Steering

[drumdoctor]

I am asking for any trikers who have built
any trikes with "Push-Pull" steering to give me their insights about that type of steering---
Or anyone who has a thought about this type of steering.

In Push-Pull steering, there are 2 bars that the steering rods connect to...
A FRONT bar on the forks and a REAR bar that is around the handlebars.

Here is the question:
1--How is the steering changed if the FRONT bar is made longer?
2--How is the steering changed if the REAR bar is made longer?
3--How is the steering changed if BOTH bars are made longer?

Basically, is the steering made easier if 1 bar is made longer (Either one) or is it made easier if BOTH bars are made longer?

Thank you.

Hope everyone has a happy, healthy, safe and prosperous 2015 !

[johnwd98]

I am asking for any trikers who have built
any trikes with "Push-Pull" steering to give me their insights about that type of steering---
Or anyone who has a thought about this type of steering.

In Push-Pull steering, there are 2 bars that the steering rods connect to...
A FRONT bar on the forks and a REAR bar that is around the handlebars.

Here is the question:
1--How is the steering changed if the FRONT bar is made longer?
2--How is the steering changed if the REAR bar is made longer?
3--How is the steering changed if BOTH bars are made longer?

Basically, is the steering made easier if 1 bar is made longer (Either one) or is it made easier if BOTH bars are made longer?

Thank you.

Hope everyone has a happy, healthy, safe and prosperous 2015 !

I would think it should work like pulleys or sprockets. A shorter bar at the handlebars would make the handlebars easier to turn but you would have to turn the handlebars farther to make the fork turn. A shorter bar at the fork would mean that the fork would move quicker or more when turning the handlebars but, would make turning quicker and harder. I hope this makes sense and, that I understood your question correctly.

[caveman50]

Short bar on the handlebars equates to easier steering however it will have less travel. The farther you go from the pivot point the more travel you will have however you will have less strength. Cheers, caveman

[Loner]

From your post:

Here is the question:
1--How is the steering changed if the FRONT bar is made longer?
A: Steering would require more strength, and turning would be slower.

2--How is the steering changed if the REAR bar is made longer?
A: Steering would require less strength, and turning would be faster.

3--How is the steering changed if BOTH bars are made longer?
A: If changed equally, you should experience no change in steering reaction.

We're assuming that the pivot points on each bar are at the ends.

I personally think it advisable to work with your trail numbers to make the steering easier before you modify your pivot bars as discussed, but your method will work.

[bikerbillone]

Theory, longer bars more leverage? I donno, just asking.

[stacebg]

From your post:

Here is the question:
1--How is the steering changed if the FRONT bar is made longer?
A: Steering would require more strength, and turning would be slower.

2--How is the steering changed if the REAR bar is made longer?
A: Steering would require less strength, and turning would be faster.

3--How is the steering changed if BOTH bars are made longer?
A: If changed equally, you should experience no change in steering reaction.

We're assuming that the pivot points on each bar are at the ends.

I personally think it advisable to work with your trail numbers to make the steering easier before you modify your pivot bars as discussed, but your method will work.

i think this is partly backwards....
--How is the steering changed if the FRONT bar is made longer?
A: Steering would require more strength, and turning would be slower.

if the front bar is wider steering is slower but will be easier not harder
also be aware that if one bar or tree is wider than the other the front to back links will bind
did a quick layout... one tree 10 in wide other 14 in wide if the short one turns 30 degrees if i held the one side at 48 the other needs to be about 20 thou longer... it doesnt sound like much but you will feel the bind an depending on the link you will probably see it bend too

i do aggree try to get the trail set up so you dont need to worry about the leverage on the bars

[Loner]

I realize that this is a prehistoric thread, but in doing some of my time-killing browsing around I ran across it again. I had to respond to give a nod to Stacy. His post is exactly right - I must have been having a senior moment that day and got my mind screwed on exactly backwards.

Just didn't want to let it go by without giving props where they are due.

[Fowler]

I will be going with a push/pull steering like this on my new build.

I have been wondering the same questions asked.

I'm glad you brought this back up

So am i correct in that

Both ends should be the same length.

But what is the difference is the length on both ends are the same but shorter or longer

Also the Trail is most important on a Trike.

As for the Rake. I can use just about any Rake as long as the Trail is good (1 - 2 inches)

Correct???

How does Wheelbase affect turning?

Im not happy about it but my wheel base will be right at 10 feet.

That is because of the seating area I want. If I reduced the space for seating I could make it shorter but I really do not want to do that.

[stacebg]

I realize that this is a prehistoric thread, but in doing some of my time-killing browsing around I ran across it again. I had to respond to give a nod to Stacy. His post is exactly right - I must have been having a senior moment that day and got my mind screwed on exactly backwards.

Just didn't want to let it go by without giving props where they are due.

i saw this came to the top again and started reading from the first post came to the lay an thought yup that is correct didnt even realize it was my post till u gave the nod....(thanks)

how quickly the ole mind forgets what it has done lol

[stacebg]

I will be going with a push/pull steering like this on my new build.

I have been wondering the same questions asked.

I'm glad you brought this back up

So am i correct in that Both ends should be the same length.

But what is the difference is the length on both ends are the same but shorter or longer

Also the Trail is most important on a Trike.

As for the Rake. I can use just about any Rake as long as the Trail is good (1 - 2 inches)

Correct???

How does Wheelbase affect turning?

Im not happy about it but my wheel base will be right at 10 feet.

That is because of the seating area I want. If I reduced the space for seating I could make it shorter but I really do not want to do that.

see sketch distance 1, 2, 3, 4 must all

which makes the connecting rods the same

Also the Trail is most important on a Trike.

correct

As for the Rake. I can use just about any Rake as long as the Trail is good (1 - 2 inches)

yes i have found 1_2 inches works well

not sure how far out you can go with the rake and still be handle correct... been wanting to experiment but no time as yet

[LarryA]

.....started thinking about the "side view" of this steering set-up...thinking with a larger rake angle 45deg or so, the steering rods would have to somewhat follow at 90 deg to the fork angle, or they may not pull correctly...front bar higher than rear bar..... also steering links would have to cross the top of the engine... .probably less rake would be better, just thinking out loud here!

[stacebg]

I will be going with a push/pull steering like this on my new build.

I have been wondering the same questions asked.

I'm glad you brought this back up

So am i correct in that

Both ends should be the same length.

But what is the difference is the length on both ends are the same but shorter or longer

Also the Trail is most important on a Trike.

As for the Rake. I can use just about any Rake as long as the Trail is good (1 - 2 inches)

Correct???

How does Wheelbase affect turning?

Im not happy about it but my wheel base will be right at 10 feet.

That is because of the seating area I want. If I reduced the space for seating I could make it shorter but I really do not want to do that.

i think you will be fine with the wheel base..... you may need a bigger place to turn around is all

[Doug D.]

.....started thinking about the "side view" of this steering set-up...thinking with a larger rake angle 45deg or so, the steering rods would have to somewhat follow at 90 deg to the fork angle, or they may not pull correctly...front bar higher than rear bar..... also steering links would have to cross the top of the engine... .probably less rake would be better, just thinking out loud here!

Use a heim joint at each end of the connecting rod. This will allow you to keep your 45 degree rake and keep the connecting rods closer to level. It shouldn't effect leverage too much either.

[Fowler]

I am at the point where I am looking into this myself.

[Sidecarbill]

How about one rod with real tie rod ends. Hot rods only have one drag link.

[LarryA]

One rod would certainly eliminate the binding problem with different lengths of steering horns...... now talking "looks" I like the dual rods, they also appear stronger. But it's up to the builder/owner.

Attempting to get lighter steering by having to turn the handlebars to more extreme angles could cause clearance issues and throttle/brake/ switch issues also....all kinds of considerations!

[Fowler]

One rod would certainly eliminate the binding problem with different lengths of steering horns...... now talking "looks" I like the dual rods, they also appear stronger. But it's up to the builder/owner.

Attempting to get lighter steering by having to turn the handlebars to more extreme angles could cause clearance issues and throttle/brake/ switch issues also....all kinds of considerations!

Well right now I can handle a heaver steering

I am worried about as I get older. I have nerve damage in my back from injuries while in the Army. It affects my arms. The doc says it will just get worse as I get older.

SO I was hoping to get the best of both ways. Easier steering and a good turning radius.

[TomyJ]

Fowler I hope this will help?

[Fowler]

Fowler I hope this will help?

That is exactly what I want to do.

Would like to see close ups of both ends

[TomyJ]

This one is off center? I hope something works out for you...