Did I get a 'Tune' in place of a tuner?

[FLRT]

First off, let me pre-qualify this thread with "I am not mechanically inclined". Even though I grew up working first, in my father's auto parts store, and later in his machine shop, mechanical things were never...well, my thing.

So now to the point of my story. About three weeks ago, I stopped in at my local HD dealer to discuss a Stage 1 for my Freewheeler. I decided on the Cobra Power Port Dual head pipes and Cobra RPT Slip-Ons, Screamin' Eagle High Flow Air Cleaner and then I asked what they were using for tuners since the HD ones weren't available anymore. His response was Power Vision. So he worked up an estimate and called me when the parts came in.

I picked it up today and must say I'm a little underwhelmed. Exhaust sounds nice, but bottom end feels like its lacking. It was Dyno'd and shows Max Power = 79.00 @ Engine RPM = 5.02 and Max Torque = 104.40 @ Engine RPM = 3.13.

I sat down and started looking over my receipt and noticed there is no charge for a Power Vision Tuner. My bill came in around $100.00 cheaper than the estimate and that also included a full engine/trans/primary fluid change that I added after the original estimate. Did they skip the tuner install? What should I look for? I thought a Power Vision was the one that mounted to the handlebars? Could the omission of the tuner be why the bottom end seems to be lacking? I'm lost, do I go in and ask them why they didn't install the tuner or is it on the bike somewhere I haven't looked?

Any help is much appreciated!

[1dn5up]

Just go back and play stupid, tell them it runs worse now than before. Also note to them that you lost all your low end performance. Get more flys with honey than vinegar !
Also ask questions, "wear was the tuner mounted and how does it work " ect.
No questions are stupid, if your questions are not answered the way you understand the answers, ask again.

[FLRT]

Just go back and play stupid, tell them it runs worse now than before. Also note to them that you lost all your low end performance. Get more flys with honey than vinegar !

Playing stupid is not the hard part... My wife knows I can do that with ease!
But what I wanna know is did they tune the bike with something that doesn't stay with my bike. In other words, did they give it a 'tune' instead of a tuner. Although the fact that the P&A guy mentioned the Power Vision leads my un-educated mind to assume a 'tuner' would be installed.

[1dn5up]

I know that some tuners are married with the bike, as you cannot use it on another unless one pays the fee again. You paid for the tuner, it should be yours, in case the program goes south. Being you were not charged, they are using it on others some how

[rhino 2]

When i did my stage one...The ECM was recalibrated to raise the red line to 62 hundred rpm's added True duels free flowing air cleaner.. And the trike ran great.. [2011 Tri] But i didn't like the sound with the stock mufflers. So i added slip-ons and then i lost the bottom end power.. The exhaust was too free flowing ..So i restricted the exhaust a little with a set of DK's Thunder-Torques, Got the bottom end back and then some.

[BillR]

Sounds like you didn't get a Power Vision. They run around $450 without the extras. Here is a link to what you would have gotten with a Power Vision. Good picture at bottom of page.

http://www.fuelmotousa.com/p-28398-d...er-vision.html

[hogcowboy]

You've not said what your bill was so it's hard to say whether you got charged for something you don't have. Wouldn't be very hard at all to add up the parts alone and then add a couple hours labor. But even if they just gave you a Stage 1 tune it should run great unless as suggested, it doesn't have even back pressure now to function properly. And if it was actually dyno'ed that shouldn't matter as much anyway.

I'd just go back and ask them to go thru the receipt of parts and labor. You'll know first hand and can then ask further questions about why it isn't performing as you expect. All anyone here can do is take pot shots at what might be happening. Power Vision does make a tuner now that doesn't stay on the bike but flashes the ECM just like the dealer can do.

You can then try different maps to see which one you like best. Power Vision CX for Harley is a great fairing inexpensive tuner. FuelMoto can help you out there or you can get maps from DynoJet. But you really need to talk to your dealer.

[HDB0B]

Sounds like the Dealer did a H-D Stage 1 re-flash of your stock ECM and did not add any custom tuner.

Free flowing exhaust lessens the low end torque ... which trikes need! Like others said ... you may need to add some torque cones to get some needed back pressure in the system.

At this point I would suggest you find a shop with a trike dyno and purchase a Power Vision from DKCustoms. Then have it properly tuned.

Bob

[FLRT]

- - - Updated - - -

When i did my stage one...The ECM was recalibrated to raise the red line to 62 hundred rpm's added True duels free flowing air cleaner.. And the trike ran great.. [2011 Tri] But i didn't like the sound with the stock mufflers. So i added slip-ons and then i lost the bottom end power.. The exhaust was too free flowing ..So i restricted the exhaust a little with a set of DK's Thunder-Torques, Got the bottom end back and then some.

Do you know what the stock redline is? After some extensive riding this morning, I may not be as disappointed as yesterday. I did notice I was hitting revs in the low 6000's, so perhaps the ECM was recalibrated. Also noticed more 'punch' in certain gears. I'm still a little OCD about my left muffler being right of center, so I will be going back to see if they can re-adjust. I'm curious as to why I didn't get the tuner after it was quoted to me in the original estimate. I guess I'll find out when I get back there. Thanks for all the replies, fella's!

[Bill G]

It may not be the tuning. Duel head pipes and 2 1/2" baffle diameter mufflers like the RTP mufflers more than likely are why your bottom end torque has dropped off. There is more to exaust and tuning than just sound.

If stage 1 was done redline was raised from 5500 to 6000.

Ride Safe,
Bill G

[rhino 2]

- - - Updated - - -




Do you know what the stock redline is? After some extensive riding this morning, I may not be as disappointed as yesterday. I did notice I was hitting revs in the low 6000's, so perhaps the ECM was recalibrated. Also noticed more 'punch' in certain gears. I'm still a little OCD about my left muffler being right of center, so I will be going back to see if they can re-adjust. I'm curious as to why I didn't get the tuner after it was quoted to me in the original estimate. I guess I'll find out when I get back there. Thanks for all the replies, fella's!

The stock red line is just around 54 hundred rpm's, And theres no way you can rev it to 6 grand with ''OUT'' the ECM Being recalibrated [So you know that was done] you can go as high as 62 hundred with the Recal.. I when i need to really get on it i shift at 6 grand..... But in normal riding i'll shift at a little under 3 thousand,

[FLRT]

I when i need to really get on it i shift at 6 grand..... But in normal riding i'll shift at a little under 3 thousand,

That's pretty much my MO as well! Thanks for the info!

[FuzzyWuzHe]

Sounds like the Dealer did a H-D Stage 1 re-flash of your stock ECM and did not add any custom tuner.

Free flowing exhaust lessens the low end torque ... which trikes need! Like others said ... you may need to add some torque cones to get some needed back pressure in the system.

At this point I would suggest you find a shop with a trike dyno and purchase a Power Vision from DKCustoms. Then have it properly tuned.

Bob

This would be my guess as well .. HD loves to charge $150-200 for a stage 1 download that still allows your bike to run hot (lean).

I really like the play dumb approach ... less confronting and you should get some answers ... or maybe some tap dancing ...

[Jack Klarich]

Power vision or TTS

[vito]

As someone else said, there is ALOT more to exhaust (and inlet) tuning than the noise. A tuned pipe is like a pipe organ. When the valve opens a high pressure pulse starts down the pipe at essentially the speed o sound. When it reaches the end of the pipe a negative (vacuum) pulse is reflected back to the valve. If it arrives at the proper time, which depends on valve timing and RPM as well as pipe length then you gain power. Otherwise you loose it. Trouble is it is impractical to fit a long enough pipe on a low-RPM bike like a Harley to do anything but lose low rpm power.
Listen to the howl from a real race bike/car. That's the sound of a tuned exhaust working. Have you ever heard a Harley howl like that at 3000 RPM?
Efficient mufflers diffuse that pressure pulse to quiet the bark and, as a side benefit, keep that bad return pulse from happening. It has nothing to do with back pressure as often imagined. Diffusers, cones et al serve the same function - to stop the return pulse that perforce will arrive at a bad power killing time.

Why bother with pipes? There is a button near the left grip, under the one with the R that has a bugle on it. If you push it the horn will make a noise that is almost as obnoxious as some popular pipes. It doesn't kill your low end torque and comes free. So why buy pipes?