Back brakes locking down on New MotorTrike kit the Phoenix on a 1997 Goldwing

[Lindyphil]

Hello Gentlepeople, I am trying to help a close friend solve His problem with His new trike kit. He brought it home from the shop that installed the kit, down in Newnan, Ga. and when He rode it the back brakes started to bind and almost lock down. The installer suggested He bleed the brakes. He told Him to bleed them from the left front caliber on the front. He did and the brakes released, and it was ok for then. He tried to ride again and they locked down again. He told Me that the rear brake peddle was real had to mash. He is so sick, now, and doesn't know what to do.

Would any of My good friends have any suggestions on what He should do next. I don't have a Motortrike kit so I can't help Him. This kit is on a 1997 SE Goldwing. It looks just like it did the day He brought it home. I will be looking forward to any thoughts and suggestions. We are planning on going to Daytona, the first of March for Bike week and He is so sick about this problem. I will be watching for all the thoughts on this problem, that He has.

Your friend

Phil

[mhgoldwing]

Hello Gentlepeople, I am trying to help a close friend solve His problem with His new trike kit. He brought it home from the shop that installed the kit, down in Newnan, Ga.
and when He rode it the back brakes started to bind and almost lock down. The installer suggested He bleed the brakes. He told Him to bleed them from the left front caliber on the front. He did and the brakes released, and it was ok for then. He tried to ride again and they locked down again. He told Me that the rear brake peddle was real had to mash. He is so sick, now, and doesn't know what to do. Would any of My good friends have any suggestions on what He should do next. I don't have a Motortrike kit so I can't help Him. This kit is on a 1997 SE Goldwing. It looks just like it did the day He brought it home. I will be looking forward to any thoughts and suggestions. We are planning on going to Daytona, the first of March for Bike week and He is so sick about this problem. I will be watching for all the thoughts on this problem, that He has.

Your friend

Phil

I would strongly suggest he call Motor Trike on Monday morning since he just had this kit installed. They should have bled brakes if necessary and done sufficient test ride. I'm sure MT can help him.

If wants to get a jump on the problem I would suggest he bleed all of the brakes to be sure the system is ok since front and rear brakes are linked. I don't have the bleed sequence for the 1500 but maybe someone will chime in who does.

Good luck.

[Marc H]

Check the brake pedal free travel.If there isn't enough the brakes won't release properly and will eventually lock down.

[tigi]

The push rod on the brake pedal going to the rear master cylinder is too long. Needs to be adjusted so that there is free play in the pedal. In other words make the rod shorter.

[Lee H. Mann]

Hello Gentlepeople, I am trying to help a close friend solve His problem with His new trike kit. He brought it home from the shop that installed the kit, down in Newnan, Ga. and when He rode it the back brakes started to bind and almost lock down. The installer suggested He bleed the brakes. He told Him to bleed them from the left front caliber on the front. He did and the brakes released, and it was ok for then. He tried to ride again and they locked down again. He told Me that the rear brake peddle was real had to mash. He is so sick, now, and doesn't know what to do.

Would any of My good friends have any suggestions on what He should do next. I don't have a Motortrike kit so I can't help Him. This kit is on a 1997 SE Goldwing. It looks just like it did the day He brought it home. I will be looking forward to any thoughts and suggestions. We are planning on going to Daytona, the first of March for Bike week and He is so sick about this problem. I will be watching for all the thoughts on this problem, that He has.
Your friend
Phil

The previous post may have hit on the problem.

Sometimes an individual will relocate the pedal (it has splines for indexing) to get an increased stroke for the rear mastercylinder to gain pedal advantage.

The pedal has a stop built onto it that stops under the right peg support.
(see picture below)
It should not hit that support.

If it does, it will not allow fluid to return to the mastercylinder reservoir upon release, this will keep the brakes applied. As they heat up, the pads expand and are unable to push fluid away and the eventually get so hot they might lock up. Releasing pressure via the bleeder is the only way to release them.

[Future Triker]

The previous post may have hit on the problem.

Sometimes an individual will relocate the pedal (it has splines for indexing) to get an increased stroke for the rear mastercylinder to gain pedal advantage.

The pedal has a stop built onto it that stops under the right peg support.
(see picture below)
It should not hit that support.

If it does, it will not allow fluid to return to the mastercylinder reservoir upon release, this will keep the brakes applied. As they heat up, the pads expand and are unable to push fluid away and the eventually get so hot they might lock up. Releasing pressure via the bleeder is the only way to release them.

I've also seen this when people "ride" their foot on the pedal slightly. When you do that you also block the return port and create an issue that isn't otherwise there. Once other thing I'd check is to be sure that when they "re-bled" the brakes they did not overfill the master cylinder. Had a buddy do this one time and drove himself nuts trying to find the problem; he had the reservoir too full so there was no room for fluid expansion as things warmed up. Cause the brakes to lock down when riding, he'd sit for a while & they'd release; ride again & as they heated up, locked up again. He had it towed to a shop and ended up having to pay the repair bill when they discovered that he'd been "topping off" his brake fluid. He had assumed they'd not put enough brake fluid in it and added until there wasn't any space left.

[Lindyphil]

My friend with the 1997 SE Goldwing with MT kit on it, call Out to MT on this past Monday and talked with, their Tech. dept. My friend told Him about the brakes locking down, and that His seat want line up on the four bolt holes, like it is supposed to.
The Tech. told Him, that they don't have a mechanical shop.


What led up to that statement, is He was willing to load the trike up and carry it out to the plant in Texas where they make them. The tech, said that would not do any good.
It is a crying shame for a co. as Big as Motor Trike not to try and Make one of their customers satisfied. My friend has over 17000.00 invested in the kit and all the extra options He had put on kit, that was offered by MT.


He went to the local Honda shop and talked to the Shop foreman, and He was told, they don't have anybody that knows anything about a 1500 and they sure didn't work on a trike.


so to sum this up He is sick and very sad at this point.


Does any body on the forum have any more suggestions. I sure would appreciate them.
Thanks
Phil

[Lee H. Mann]

There are suggestions above on things that could possibly be checked prior to taking it back to a shop for repair. If I understand correctly, the original shop cannot or will not fix the problem, is that true ?

Have either you or he checked any of these possibilities posted above ?

Your friend must have some mechanical ability to question the seat installation or lack there of.

You can try Cherokee Trikes in Greer, South Carolina. They do Motortrike.
(864) 879-2119

[trike tech]

My friend with the 1997 SE Goldwing with MT kit on it, call Out to MT on this past Monday and talked with, their Tech. dept. My friend told Him about the brakes locking down, and that His seat want line up on the four bolt holes, like it is supposed to.
The Tech. told Him, that they don't have a mechanical shop.
What led up to that statement, is He was willing to load the trike up and carry it out to the plant in Texas where they make them. The tech, said that would not do any good.
It is a crying shame for a co. as Big as Motor Trike not to try and Make one of their customers satisfied. My friend has over 17000.00 invested in the kit and all the extra options He had put on kit, that was offered by MT.
He went to the local Honda shop and talked to the Shop foreman, and He was told, they don't have anybody that knows anything about a 1500 and they sure didn't work on a trike.
so to sum this up He is sick and very sad at this point.
Does any body on the forum have any more suggestions. I sure would appreciate them.
Thanks
Phil

Phil,

I'm the tech your friends spoke with when they called in to Motor Trike. It seems your friends either misunderstood or misspoke when talking to you about their issue (I know they are very frustrated with the entire ordeal and that is completely understandable). We spent about 40 minutes on the phone discussing their issues & concerns with the trike. They had mentioned bringing the bike to our facility & was told that we would be happy to go over the trike kit and the installation and correct any issues found. However we do not do work on the motorcycle itself and have no techs in our facility qualified to do so & while we may be able to diagnose and give them a direction on issues with the motorcycle itself, we would not be able to fix them because of this.

Based on our discussion with the owner's of the trike, it's my understanding that the installer modified the stock Honda seat in a way that is not "normal" with our conversions, but without seeing the bike and knowing exactly what was done it's impossible for us to accurately diagnose and provide a resolution over the phone.

During our conversation and a description of exactly what the brakes were doing, I did inform them that the return port on the master cylinder is obstructed and causing their issue. One important part of the puzzle that talking to them helped in determining this was that he could press the brake pedal several times and with each press the pedal would get harder & brakes lock down even tighter. When sitting overnight, they would release but begin locking down when the pedal is pressed (which indicates an obstruction in the return passage for the master cylinder). I strongly recommended that they have the master cylinder inspected to determine whether the blockage is debris in the return port or an improper brake pedal adjustment.

[Joel Deaton]

Even if we are able to find someone to fix the brakes, we still have a motor trike kit that we cannot fit with a seat. The stock seat won't go on properly, it has had been modified and still won't fit. The aftermarket seat with the back rest doesn't fit. My wife would not be able to ride with out back rest to push her forward. But without the seat fitting it can't be ridden by anyone.
Now what??

[Gorilla]

Phil,

I'm the tech your friends spoke with when they called in to Motor Trike. It seems your friends either misunderstood or misspoke when talking to you about their issue (I know they are very frustrated with the entire ordeal and that is completely understandable). We spent about 40 minutes on the phone discussing their issues & concerns with the trike. They had mentioned bringing the bike to our facility & was told that we would be happy to go over the trike kit and the installation and correct any issues found. However we do not do work on the motorcycle itself and have no techs in our facility qualified to do so & while we may be able to diagnose and give them a direction on issues with the motorcycle itself, we would not be able to fix them because of this.

Based on our discussion with the owner's of the trike, it's my understanding that the installer modified the stock Honda seat in a way that is not "normal" with our conversions, but without seeing the bike and knowing exactly what was done it's impossible for us to accurately diagnose and provide a resolution over the phone.

During our conversation and a description of exactly what the brakes were doing, I did inform them that the return port on the master cylinder is obstructed and causing their issue. One important part of the puzzle that talking to them helped in determining this was that he could press the brake pedal several times and with each press the pedal would get harder & brakes lock down even tighter. When sitting overnight, they would release but begin locking down when the pedal is pressed (which indicates an obstruction in the return passage for the master cylinder). I strongly recommended that they have the master cylinder inspected to determine whether the blockage is debris in the return port or an improper brake pedal adjustment.

Richard welcome aboard we really appreciate your joining the forum. Please continue to advise

[trike tech]

Richard welcome aboard we really appreciate your joining the forum. Please continue to advise

Thank you, I monitor the forums daily, just never created a user name & log in previously. Figured it was long overdue & that I might be able to offer a little advice here and there based on my miscellaneous experience over the years with bikes (personal use, etc) and trikes.

[trike tech]

Even if we are able to find someone to fix the brakes, we still have a motor trike kit that we cannot fit with a seat. The stock seat won't go on properly, it has had been modified and still won't fit. The aftermarket seat with the back rest doesn't fit. My wife would not be able to ride with out back rest to push her forward. But without the seat fitting it can't be ridden by anyone.
Now what??

All very valid questions. As mentioned when we talked, I'm not sure what they would have modified on your seat, or exactly why they did so. Without seeing it and being able to examine exactly where the issue is, I'm afraid I can't answer your question.

If you are still planning on going to Daytona as you mentioned I would encourage you to stop by our rig and talk to our crew, they may not be able to at that exact moment, but they can take a look at your unit and see what the issue may be in regards to your seat not fitting and attaching. I understand your frustration in having a custom seat that doesn't fit properly with our kit as we discussed. If you are able, it may not hurt to bring your custom seat along for our folks to take a look at it to see if the seat pan & cut is in fact incompatible with our kit, or if there may be something that can be done to make it work. I can't guarantee that we can in fact make it work, but we are more than willing to take a look at it. This would also give you more feedback beyond what you have been told by your installing dealer.

Also, as we discussed, if you would prefer, you are always welcome to schedule an appointment in our facility and we will be glad to go through the entire trike conversion & check the installation. If we see any installation related issues, we can address them and work on getting you taken care of.

[Joel Deaton]

Richard, we are unable to ride the bike, we do not have a seat that fits, nor can we find anyone to fix the brakes.