Likes: 2
Thanks: 0
Dealer Dyno tune - is it worth the $$$$$$
A couple of years ago, shortly after purchasing my used 2012 Triglide, the dealer installed cams, s-pipe, new map, induction system, etc. Since they didn't have a trike dyno at the time they "did the best [they] could" with the tune. They now have a trike dyno and want $700 for a tune. The engine is running very well right now and I can't seem to justify $700 for a dyno tune. Any thoughts on this issue?
For $500 you can get the best tuner on the market, and it has auto-tune built into it. So you can do a tune anytime you want with no additional $ spent.Originally Posted by nevtat
A couple of years ago, shortly after purchasing my used 2012 Triglide, the dealer installed cams, s-pipe, new map, induction system, etc. Since they didn't have a trike dyno at the time they "did the best [they] could" with the tune. They now have a trike dyno and want $700 for a tune. The engine is running very well right now and I can't seem to justify $700 for a dyno tune. Any thoughts on this issue?
Take a look at it HERE.
If you want an even more precise tune, you can add the Target Tune to the PV, and it is constantly monitoring and modifying the tune, every second that you are riding. It does cost some extra $, but if you are wanting the best possible tune, it is the way to go.
We are using a dyno constantly, TO TEST Efficacy of parts. But we have not bothered doing any dyno tuning on the dyno in many years. A computer will be more effective/accurate than a human dyno tuner 98% of the time.
None of my bikes are dyno tuned, they just have a Performance Plus Stage I with the tuner referenced above. Even so, they out perform the majority of bikes that have been dyno tuned, even most that have a Stage II upgrade.
Here is a link to an OVERVIEW on different EFI tuning options, with pros & cons of each.
Kevin
Thanks for the info.
Would this addition have an adverse impact on the extended warrenty?
If you are happy with the way the bike runs gas mileage ect why spend the money.Now if you are a horse power junky and need every single ounce of power then spend the money.My 16 trike I gutted the head pipe put slip on mufflers and a stage one air cleaner,then did a power vision download from fuel moto,it ran great and got good mileage.Some will say yes and some will say no.
The $1,100 tune
Here is the answer I got from a manufacturer of electronic ignition devices, looks like they are confirming that a "real" tune costs $1,100:
MOST street approved vehicles are released from the manufacturer in a bit of a lean condition. This is their attempt to meet strict emissions standards. With this lean condition, even a bone stock motorcycle could benefit from a good tune, to help it perform better. Any time you modify the bike, including air cleaners, aftermarket exhausts, heads, cams, greater displacement, etc., you are increasing the amount of air that flows thru that engine. In order to get that motor running to its potential, additional fuel is needed to get it running cooler and smoother, providing improved throttle response and increased longevity.
We offer the tools to get these engines dialed in and running the way they should be. As you mentioned, the Power Vision is a GREAT tool to do just that. It can be used to increase the fuel, adjust timing, etc. While we do offer various tunes to help you get your fueling where it should be, and additional tools like the Autotune and Target Tune accessories to assist with the tuning process, there is absolutely no substitute for having a custom tune created on a dyno by an experienced technician.
If you were to get the Power Vision, we can certainly get you a good tune to start with… And, you MAY find that you are more than happy with that power and performance… But, it can always use to be dialed in more precisely to ensure that your bike is getting the proper fuel, timing, etc. If the tune we send isn’t right on the money, you can make additional tweaks to the tune and/or add one of our accessories like the Autotune Pro or Target Tune. They can help to further refine your tune. These are the tools that a lot of shops will use to help build a custom tune, as well. Of course, like any tool, they are only as good as the knowledge and experience of the user. These tools can help you to get the bike dialed in even further, but, ultimately, you may find that it still needs to be refined even further by an experienced tuner.
Cost wise, it can be a tough call. The Power Vision and Autotune/Target Tune accessory may end up running about the same as the PV and dyno tune from this shop… But, at the very least, you can then use the PV on any additional Harleys (with the Delphi F/I system) you may own, as well.
Just because they have a trike dyno now does not mean they know how to use it, there are alot of dealers that have dyno's and some are good at doing it and some are not, heard to many stories of dyno guys ruining the bike because they did not know how to tune it correctly, my thought is all.
The power vision with a map to what you have would be good, then you can always run auto tune to get it perfected even more, most people are happy with the map that is provided and very close to what a dyno would be, just a thought. And if you are happy with the way it runs now why bother.
All for now Trampas
I re-read your post, for the work they did I'm surprised they didn't offer a tuner then, if they just did a harley download, I would assume your bike is still running lean, if happy with it the way it is, leave it as is, up to you.
As for warranty, I would imagine it up now unless you bought a extended warranty, if you did it would only be good at that dealer that did the work, if traveling and needed work, that dealer could say the stuff you did will void your warranty, some dealers are good and some not, they have to stay in with what harley tells them and the dealer could get into trouble.
My dealer told me I could do anything I want to the bike and they would cover the warranty if they did the work, any place else I'm on my own and if out of town or another state it would be black ball into the system or something to that effect and would ruined what warranty I have left.
All for now Trampas
The above is what it is in the report I gave you a LINK to....with one BIG difference.
They do not seem to address that most human dyno tuners put themselves out as a Great tuner, when, in fact, most are mediocre.
The computer (auto-tune) will do a better job than most dyno tune humans. It is very rare to find a person that can/will out-tune the computer. It is possible, but not even one in 100 can do it. Below I have pasted an excerpt from the link on the subject.
4. Use a full featured "flash" tuner like the TTS, SESPT, or Power Vision in conjunction with a Dyno. These tuners can give you control over the ECM to get the best possible tune, delivering 100% of all available power. They do not override the HD tune, they actually change the tune in the ECM.
In the right (experienced & competent) hands, these will deliver the absolute best possible results. Unfortunately not only is this the most expensive route to go, there are 99 bad to mediocre people running dyno tunes for every truly competent person doing dyno tunes. The cost of the tuner ($500-$600) and another $300- $1000 in dyno costs make this the most expensive option, with the possibility of not getting any better results than one would get with a "canned" tune.
This is the most expensive and can deliver the best results, or poor results, dependent on the person running the dyno.
5. Use a TTS or Power Vision with Auto-Tune. This is the same "flash" tuner as option #4 above, but instead of spending $ on a Dyno tune, and possibly getting a poor tune due to the person doing the dyno tune...it uses the built-in computer to record how you ride, the conditions you ride in, and a variety of other factors, then the device makes changes accordingly, improving the tune every time you ride the bike.
This is a sure way to get 99%-100% of all the power available, and not have it rely on a person running the Dyno, that may or may not do a good job. It also will adjust for any future modifications done to the bike without incurring any additional costs.
This is the second most expensive option and reliably delivers great tunes every time.
Kevin
I have never modified any of my scoots with tuners mainly because I didn't understand them. I've certainly paid to have some carbs re-jeted years ago after altering OEM exhaust.
So, after slip-ons and just a K&N cleanable filter in my OEM air box, what cheap tuner would everyone suggest? Would it be a "plug and play" install? Not after the perfect tune for 100% just need to maybe gain a little low end torque I lost and reduce some slight crackling when backing off.
tuner
I went with the non adjustable FL-XIED-10 from DK customs. just plug them in took 10 minutes. Very impressed, better gas mileage, better throttle response, more power, didn't do any cooling but my bike has dual oil coolers so it runs cool enough anyway. The reason I went with the non adjustable was because I phoned the manufacturer at nightrider and they recommended them over the adjustable ones
Well there is no cheap tuner lol. But Cobra makes one that richens the fuel by reading the 02 sensors,but will not adjust timing.I had one one my 12 Road Glide and it worked great for what you are asking.When i went to 10 to 1 pistons i then upgraded to a TTS with a full dyno run.Vance and Hines makes one and probably several others.
Thanks for info, didn't want to hijack thread but always suspected I needed some type of tuner.
Posting Permissions
