Swing arm complaint has been submitted to NHTSA

[wlibert]

First let me say, I don't type well and I leave words out of sentences due to a brain and nervous system issue so I apologize if those things occur. Also this is lengthy and a complaint has been filed with the NHTSA because the scope of this has grown beyond my own trike. A vendor on this site has been involved on the other site and he can chime in if he feels the need. He has made some valuable contributions over there to show that part of this is normal but myself and others believe that there is something going on in Rushmore based trike swing arms. Someone suggested that I do a search here to try and locate information but I wanted to through this out there. The time I've been spending on this is bad for my health but I made a commitment to see the issue through to the members over there until I had someone with some authority give this issue more visibility.

I am not an expert on Tri-Glide issues this is simply a desire to make this situation more visible.

I am also leaving names and places out of this because this issue impacts my own trike and getting it fixed may be a challenge plus name slinging and finger pointing in these kinds of situations don't help at all

I started a thread on another forum about an issue I am having with my 2014 Tri-Glide. If I don't keep constant pressure on the grip the trike will dart off the road. The problem got progressively worse to the point that I had to park it. I needed to do a 10k service on it anyway so it wasn't a big deal and I would investigate further then. So I worked through the maintenance it was at the point that I needed to check and possible set the belt deflection. Doing that process also includes aligning the rear axle fore and aft. Then the next step is a lateral alignment set the position of the belt on the sprocket. So I noticed the belt was too tight and pushed up against the left shoulder of the sprocket. The belt is as tight as a metal band saw blade.

I have been working on high performance cars and bikes for 41 years and many of wrenches, ratchets, sockets, and screw drivers are 41 years old. There are several supercharged cars running around the area where I live that were built in my garage so I felt confident I could adjust this stuff.

I have service manuals for my trike as well so I went at it aligned each side of the axle with 1/16" of each other and the belt deflection was between 3/8" and 7/16" as specified in the trike supplemental. Every time I tightened down the pinch bolts something would move and the belt would end up to tight. After several tries I got help from a friend that was former HD tech at several dealerships in my area until he went independent. We gave it several shot together and something still move in spite of the fact the last two attempts include ratchet straps to hold the axle in place. Over the period of time that we tried to do this I also enlisted the help of my local dealership and they asked us to tightened down the pinch bolts in two different ways and we did and some thing continue to move enough to over tighten the belt. I've spent a huge amount of money at my local Harley dealer and they know about my health and that I can't afford to bring this thing in so they were ok with making another suggestion and it really was a way to get information about where the rear axles were sitting in relation to the pivot shaft in the swing arm. So they told me what to do and asked another friend that does machine work and carpentry work to help. So, were asked to use a string with a carpenters plum on it and drop it down from the center of the rear axle on each side and then use a straight edge and a sharpie to drap a line across the two points. so that got down and I pulled the caps off of the pivot shaft which are just below the bottom bolt of the passenger boards.

I went over to the left side of the trike, pull the cover off, and all of this feathery rubbery stuff and metal shavings hit the floor. We knew we were down with trying anything esle at that point. I went online to another forum and asked for some help. I wanted people to pop the same covers I did over the ends of the pivot shaft and send me some pictures via email. It didn't take long for the pictures to start coming and the people who were sending them were finding the same thing on their trikes I think I have 8 or so emails but only six contain pictures but there are more pictures in the thread on the other forum and a wealth of knowledge too especially from the vendor who participates on this site as well. I've spoken to him about this stuff as well as other times about other products he sells and riding trikes in general. The last time we talked we had a discussion about a shop near him and that I would be down that way in about six weeks for a visit.

There is a lot of information and opinions flying around about this and some people are being told my HD dealers that it is normal and others are being told it's not. I had my on interest in this regarding where I got my trike and how it was inspected so my first move was my that has his on motorcycle business, then to a dealer where he buys his parts and my own local dealership gave me assistance but will not render an opinion on the situation.

So these are the opinions/observations that I have and those involved please feel free to smack if I misinterpreted your explanations

My friend says the issue has been seen before but occurs on bikes and trikes with significantly more miles on them.

The dealership he uses for businesses purposes said the same thing and they find it odd and the debris that is in there should not be there.

The last person is the vendor I spoke of. I don't want to misrepresent him so I will say that he supplied a picture on the other forum that clears up one of my concern which the offset position of the end of the pivot shaft.

So my take on this is that the offset position of the end of the pivot shat is normal. The debris in them is not. Some thing is wrong inside the swing arm or the metal shavings and the rubber debris wouldn't be there.

Anyway, that's whats going on. I am comfortable thanks to the persons contributions above that the pivot shaft should be offset but I am not comfortable about the rubbery stuff and metal shavings in there.

I have some pictures below. The debris from my trike appears to be less than others but it was not. We had two big fans blowing down each side of the garage when the covers were taken the debris when with it but seeing what we had nudged me over to the other forum to get pictures. the first few pictures sent to me show metal debris and rubber debris found when the swing arm was removed.

I am having trouble getting my own pictures posted and I'm not sure why but I think it's because of the super high resolution camera I was using but I re-sized them several times and they will not upload.

If someone knows of a post in regards to this issue or looks at theirs and it has all the crude behind the cover like mine does feel free to email me pictures to wlibert@hotmail.com or post them here.

This is my compliant number filed with NHSTA 11000009. You can file your own at https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/. I was told my complaint number can be referenced and I have no issue with that but I haven't run through the process on that site, I called mine in.

There are no guarantees that the complaints will generate an investigation but I was told the more complaints the better the chance.

[dougv]

Sorry that your having these issues and I don't own a Tri-Glide but it looks like the rubber piece may just be a dust or protective cover. To me it seems like there should be a bearing or sleeve to hold the swing arm in position. If there is a damaged or defective bearing or sleeve that is allowing the swing arm to move around, that could be what is rubbing the rubber. Good luck and hope you find the problem...

[Capt.Bob]

Wlibert, Thanks for bringing this to the attention of NHTSA. I am not sure if the failure will rise to the level of a recall because you haven't explained what the possible consequences are of your findings in terms of vehicle safety? Please don't get "wrapped around the axle" (pun intended) and harm your health but your diligence is greatly appreciated!

[ISP-FL]

I already responded on the "other" forum so I won't repeat it all here. I filed a complaint with them a few years ago related to a safety issue on my new RV. The manufacturer knew of the safety issue reference a broken part and for months and months would not produce the replacement part. Investigation began and parts immediately produced!

If his TG was taken to a dealer and they either refused to fix it or could not fix it, plus there were hundreds of others out there with the same issue, then maybe they would open an investigation. IMHO it is extremely unlikely in this case.

[DK Custom Products]

Bill, I enjoyed our conversation the other day.

As I mentioned, I believed the rubber mounts in question are designed to be off center. Since then we saw photo's of the part that confirm that, which I put below for others that may be interested.





I could be wrong, but I still believe the wear seen on some of the rubber is a result of another problem. Excerpt from another post below-

I'm more inclined to think it is an assembly issue or alignment issue more than a fundamentally defective design.

I remember checking my 2011 many years ago and was surprised to see if off center, but if I recall correctly, the design does not call for them be centered.

On my '11 there was very little wear on my rubber bushings...there was some, but nothing like the photos above.

That TG had a lot of hard miles on it. All the way to the arctic circle and back, Yukon Territories, countless powerslides and wheelies, over 10K miles pulling a trailer, and over 50K miles total when it was last looked at.

I just went out and looked at my 2014. It has not seen any easier riding...my favorite thing is to power thru the curves, and if I'm lucky to break the back end loose and drift. This puts a LOT of lateral stress on the swingarm.

It has close to 45k miles on it, and you can see in the photos below that the rubber bushings are in very good shape. There was a very small amount of rubber shavings in the bottom, but not enough to fill a thimble between the two of them.

Left Side-



Right Side-



Bill, after thinking more about our discussion the other day, about not being able to get the belt deflection set...it seems that there is something unique going on with your ride. I agree with you, you have a warranty and it is HD's responsibility to make whatever repairs are needed to your Trike in order for the belt deflection to be set properly.

Once that is done, along with whatever other repairs may be needed (bearings, etc.) then I do not think you will have an ongoing issue of the rubber being chewed up.

Kevin

[headheaded]

do you think if the bearings were bad it would cause this wear on the bushings ? it seems to me the swingarm would move on the pivot shaft but the shaft and bushings would stay in place.

[MikeyTX]

Bill, I enjoyed our conversation the other day.

As I mentioned, I believed the rubber mounts in question are designed to be off center. Since then we saw photo's of the part that confirm that, which I put below for others that may be interested.





I could be wrong, but I still believe the wear seen on some of the rubber is a result of another problem. Excerpt from another post below-

I'm more inclined to think it is an assembly issue or alignment issue more than a fundamentally defective design.

I remember checking my 2011 many years ago and was surprised to see if off center, but if I recall correctly, the design does not call for them be centered.

On my '11 there was very little wear on my rubber bushings...there was some, but nothing like the photos above.

That TG had a lot of hard miles on it. All the way to the arctic circle and back, Yukon Territories, countless powerslides and wheelies, over 10K miles pulling a trailer, and over 50K miles total when it was last looked at.

I just went out and looked at my 2014. It has not seen any easier riding...my favorite thing is to power thru the curves, and if I'm lucky to break the back end loose and drift. This puts a LOT of lateral stress on the swingarm.

It has close to 45k miles on it, and you can see in the photos below that the rubber bushings are in very good shape. There was a very small amount of rubber shavings in the bottom, but not enough to fill a thimble between the two of them.

Left Side-



Right Side-



Bill, after thinking more about our discussion the other day, about not being able to get the belt deflection set...it seems that there is something unique going on with your ride. I agree with you, you have a warranty and it is HD's responsibility to make whatever repairs are needed to your Trike in order for the belt deflection to be set properly.

Once that is done, along with whatever other repairs may be needed (bearings, etc.) then I do not think you will have an ongoing issue of the rubber being chewed up.

Kevin

Unless the o/p has the extended warranty coverage, his '14 is beyond the basic 2yr/ unlimited mileage coverage that came with his scoot. Especially in light of the fact that by his own admission, he along with friends has/have done all the work on his trike rather than take it to an H D franchise dealer. Distance be damned. Lawyers for the defense, in this case, H-D would chew up the o/p alive.

[wlibert]

Sorry that your having these issues and I don't own a Tri-Glide but it looks like the rubber piece may just be a dust or protective cover. To me it seems like there should be a bearing or sleeve to hold the swing arm in position. If there is a damaged or defective bearing or sleeve that is allowing the swing arm to move around, that could be what is rubbing the rubber. Good luck and hope you find the problem...

I haven't taken the thing a part. From what I understand but I could be wrong the rubber bushing that's deteriorating hold the swing arm in place and provides vibration isolation. There are bearing in the swing arm that the shaft goes through. I believe that the bearing are shot and because of that the rubber bushings are being worn. One or two of the pictures posted shows the metal shavings from a bearing in the swing arm. I had the metal shavings and rubber come out of mine when I pulled the covers of mine.

[wlibert]

Bill, I enjoyed our conversation the other day.

As I mentioned, I believed the rubber mounts in question are designed to be off center. Since then we saw photo's of the part that confirm that, which I put below for others that may be interested.





I could be wrong, but I still believe the wear seen on some of the rubber is a result of another problem. Excerpt from another post below-

I'm more inclined to think it is an assembly issue or alignment issue more than a fundamentally defective design.

I remember checking my 2011 many years ago and was surprised to see if off center, but if I recall correctly, the design does not call for them be centered.

On my '11 there was very little wear on my rubber bushings...there was some, but nothing like the photos above.

That TG had a lot of hard miles on it. All the way to the arctic circle and back, Yukon Territories, countless powerslides and wheelies, over 10K miles pulling a trailer, and over 50K miles total when it was last looked at.

I just went out and looked at my 2014. It has not seen any easier riding...my favorite thing is to power thru the curves, and if I'm lucky to break the back end loose and drift. This puts a LOT of lateral stress on the swingarm.

It has close to 45k miles on it, and you can see in the photos below that the rubber bushings are in very good shape. There was a very small amount of rubber shavings in the bottom, but not enough to fill a thimble between the two of them.

Left Side-



Right Side-



Bill, after thinking more about our discussion the other day, about not being able to get the belt deflection set...it seems that there is something unique going on with your ride. I agree with you, you have a warranty and it is HD's responsibility to make whatever repairs are needed to your Trike in order for the belt deflection to be set properly.

Once that is done, along with whatever other repairs may be needed (bearings, etc.) then I do not think you will have an ongoing issue of the rubber being chewed up.

First I am sorry this is long I want to communicate with Kevin and also put my thoughts about it in this post. I don't type very well anymore so there will be typo's in here and missing words as well. I got very sick 3 years ago with a brain and nervous system disease.

Kevin

Thank you for chiming in Kevin your pictures of the rubber bushing show that the shaft should be offset cleared up that issue. I talked to my HD dealer prior to you posting those pictures and no one could give me a definitive answer about the shaft being where it is. I then asked to be transferred to the parts department to see if they had a bushing in stock that I could look at and they said they did not. The next step I was going to take was to call other dealerships to see if they had one but you posted the pictures of what I wanted to see.

As you said there is a root cause to this and but there no way to tell what that is until my trike is taken a part. The dealer that my trike came from pick my trike up this past Tuesday and during all of my conversations with them they told me several times that the true root cause may not be found and that it may be something other than a defective part. As you said it may be an assembly issue that happened at the factory.

I told everyone including the dealer where I got this trike that whether my trike got fixed or not this issue was going to be made public and I told them that what ever process they use to determine whether they should buy a used bike and resell it is broken and they are going to fix it because if I hear that someone gets hurt I'm coming out of the woodwork to stand by the parties who were injured or worse. I don't know what their inspection process is to determine if they should by a trike and resell it or not and I also don't know what pre-sale inspection process they have but I do know that if any one of those processes includes checking the belt their is no way that they would have been able to say it's with in HD belt deflection specs. So if they did see it and tried to set the deflection they would have had the same problem I did. Something is moving when the pinch bolts are being tightened down and the belt ends up so tight it could be used as a band saw blade. I said that to them not knowing other people would find this issue on their trikes. So now it is public and it's one step further because I filed a complaint.

So I agree with you Kevin that they should adjust the belt deflection but as I said I know what will happen when they do. I do have an extended warranty and I called them to find out if I could take my trike to any HD dealer and have warranty work done and the answer was yes. That's a good thing for me because they are do far away but, this part may be bunk or maybe not, the dealer that I took it to based on what they told me said they've seen it before but only on trikes with significantly more miles on it than mine. They said said they had to tear it a part to see what is going on and that if the issue in there wasn't going to be covered under warranty I would have to pay them for 4.5 hours of labor at $108 per hour. Since I am on a fixed income that is a risk I can't take so I told them no and picked up. Again they may be telling a a load of crap about what I just said.

At this point, the trike is back at the dealer where it came from for an undetermined amount of time.

This started as an issue with my trike. But when I asked for some help to get some pictures of the area involved people found the same thing. That forum is small in comparison to the number of owners with trikes but the forum doesn't provide a method to ask enough people to check their own trikes for deteriorated rubber an metal shavings. I would venture a guess based on my career in the computer industry that there a lot of people that have trikes that don't participate in online forums so they are not going to know that this is going on. So I mad a commitment to people to bump this up somewhere to try and get more visibility of the issue. Attempts to call the mothership were futile. Someone on the other forum suggested the National High Traffic Administration so that's where I went and filed a complaint.

I put this post here as well to try increase the visibility of the issue. I have to step away from this issue now and it's not because mine may get fixed. It's because oof my health issues. I'm not supposed to be down in the weeds of anything. So it's up to each individual now to file a complaint at safercar.gov and reference the complaint number I put in this thread a part of your complaint. The NHTSA told me there is no guarantee that they will launch an investigation but the more people that complain about it the better the chances would get that one would happen. I was asked during my complaint over the phone for dealerships or independent techs names and I gave known this is about Harley Davidson and not something a dealer did.

Thank you again Kevin! I value your knowledge and participation.

[wlibert]

Wlibert, Thanks for bringing this to the attention of NHTSA. I am not sure if the failure will rise to the level of a recall because you haven't explained what the possible consequences are of your findings in terms of vehicle safety? Please don't get "wrapped around the axle" (pun intended) and harm your health but your diligence is greatly appreciated!

Thank you I appreciate you kind words. I like the wrapped around the axle pun. Doing something like this is just me and the values I've had all of my life. I'd do it for anyone. I put this issue on Facebook because I know several trike owners there and I do a lot charity rides and there are people with trikes on those rides so I wanted to make sure they knew. One of the trike owners wives replied to my my post and said how amazing I was and told no I am just human. She quickly remind me that I saved her friend from drowning in the ocean and damn near lost my own life in the process. I took no credit for that and told her to be quiet about it and she said she was going up to the boardwalk to have some t-shirts made about this incident and then hand them out. I said Ellen please quiet down this is about human beings and values all people should have it's not about recognition. So this incident with my trike and what I've done is five year from the drowning incident she still hasn't let go of. There are a whole bunch of examples of these kind of thing that have happened over the years that my wife and I have participated in and no on will ever know about them except the people involved which is the way my wife and I want it. It's just about people caring about people and that is one reason I ride. The brotherhood and sisterhood in the motorcycle community is not the norm in this country any more. The are other communities like it but they continue to disappear.

[wlibert]

Unless the o/p has the extended warranty coverage, his '14 is beyond the basic 2yr/ unlimited mileage coverage that came with his scoot. Especially in light of the fact that by his own admission, he along with friends has/have done all the work on his trike rather than take it to an H D franchise dealer. Distance be damned. Lawyers for the defense, in this case, H-D would chew up the o/p alive.

What we ultimately found and the issue at hand was found performing a documented maintenance process. In my opinion there is no way in hell that HD could fault someone for doing there own maintenance work and have that as an out from this issue but that is my opinion. I am more than capable of doing my maintenance since I've working on cars, motorcycles, and boats now for 41 years. If this got real ugly and HD starts pointing fingers at that then I'm sure that there is something out there that protects consumers from a manufacturer saying you touched it. Well yes and no. I haven't taken the swing arm a part and I won't. I was following their process documented in the Trike Supplemental Shop Manual which is for a maintenance item which is checking and setting belt deflection. I'll do the research necessary if HD takes this stance to find something I can use. The people that are seeing what I'm and have modified their trikes are going to have an issue with HD. I know they will I've been there twice before myself in regards to 3rd parts and the refusal by a manufacturer to provide service because the parts are there. First and foremost people need to understand that state and local laws can override what I am about to say. I didn't run into that issue but it is possible for it to happen.

Congress passed an act in 1975 called the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act it was written to protect consumers of any product against restrictions in regards to 3rd party parts. At the time it was passed it was targeted at Car manufacturers and dealerships for refusing to process warranty claims and service work because 3rd party parts were on vehicles. Things as small a a GM car not having a AC Delco oil filter on them resulted in a service refusal. As I said above I've used it twice. I used it once with a car manufacturer over a refusal to replace a part that was covered under a Technical Bulletin. The part was something silly I don't remember what it was but let's say a windshield wiper motor. Their refusal to service my car was because I had installed a supercharger on my car which is totally unrelated to the wiper motor in the first place. In this situation I filed a complaint with the government and the car manufacturer had to respond to it. In the end I got the part replaced and I never had another issue with them. The second time was with one of the major computer manufacturers in the US. I purchased a file server from them. If people don't know what a file server in most cases it's just a computer with a lot of room to store your stuff like pictures, music, and stuff. After they charged my card the sales guy tells me oops were out of hard drives go online to our store and order them there or order 3rd party drives somewhere else that are rated as enterprise class drives. I went to a manufacturer who sells enterprice class hard drives and bought the drives. Historically I have only used their enterprise class drives in any custom file server I built anyway. Their drives were about $110 less than the computer manufacturers drive and I need 5 of them. Before I bought the drives I did what any good system engineer would and should do which is search for compatibility and 3rd party drive restrictions and that kind of stuff. Those searches only found one thing and it was the same thing that was stated in the owners manual 'Enterprise class drives are required' so I bought them Those drives started having some issues and when I asked for support it was refused. So, blah, blah, the situation dragged on for a couple of months and I final told their legal department I'd had enough of this and I was going to take action and I did. The got a letter from me and it's what the law requires in regards to 3rd party parts restrictions.

Manufacturers with third party part restrictions must document the reason for the restrictions in a manner that consumers can understand,

They must make that documentation available to all consumers in a location that is easily found ( so it can't be hidden in some service contract or behind an OK button on your computer screen)

And the final thing is that they must do all industry standard diagnostics to prove the 3rd party part is the issue.

In my situation they violated the law in all three places and I documented where and that is what I pointed out in my letter. In the end, I got my money back

Sorry this was long winded!

So the guys that have made mods, if it were me, I would go out and do the research on the congressional act so that you are prepared for HD's response, and then, again if it was me and I had this issue I would put mine in the shop to get it fixed.

[wlibert]

I already responded on the "other" forum so I won't repeat it all here. I filed a complaint with them a few years ago related to a safety issue on my new RV. The manufacturer knew of the safety issue reference a broken part and for months and months would not produce the replacement part. Investigation began and parts immediately produced!

If his TG was taken to a dealer and they either refused to fix it or could not fix it, plus there were hundreds of others out there with the same issue, then maybe they would open an investigation. IMHO it is extremely unlikely in this case.

It's a tough one to call on what will happen. My goal was raise awareness and to get as much visibility as I could about the issue hoping that that would give others an opportunity to see it, check their own, and then file a complaint. Raising the awareness of the issue is proven to be difficult. The only real vehicle I've found are web forums which in all likelihood does not provide enough visibility because there are probably more owners that aren't forum members than ones that are.. NHTSA sad the more complaints the better the chance that something will happen. The other thing I think is that because the number of people having this issue is small compared to the total number of owners is that each one of us going to our separate dealers to get it fixed will not catch any attention at HD so they will never know if the issue is widespread or not.

[peteg59]

A riding bud of mine is experiencing something similar on his 15' Roadglide, (2 wheeler).

Since he installed a "factory" HD 120R engine last winter, he's noticed that his rear swingarm is starting to "flex" to a worrying degree.

He researched his issue & found an aftermarket entity that makes a "fix" that among other parts, includes poly bushings instead of the OEM rubber style.

While these two cases between HD models are different, they might be solved in similar ways?

Just throwing this into the mix for possible further thought & discussion....

[wlibert]

A riding bud of mine is experiencing something similar on his 15' Roadglide, (2 wheeler).

Since he installed a "factory" HD 120R engine last winter, he's noticed that his rear swingarm is starting to "flex" to a worrying degree.

He researched his issue & found an aftermarket entity that makes a "fix" that among other parts, includes poly bushings instead of the OEM rubber style.

Just throwing this into the mix for possible further thought & discussion....

Thank you sir I appreciate your input. It all helps.

While these two cases between HD models are different, they might be solved in similar ways?

[ISP-FL]

"They said said they had to tear it a part to see what is going on and that if the issue in there wasn't going to be covered under warranty I would have to pay them for 4.5 hours of labor at $108 per hour. Since I am on a fixed income that is a risk I can't take so I told them no and picked up. Again they may be telling a a load of crap about what I just said."



Bill, I can feel your pain. I don't have an extended warranty, but if at the end of my factory warranty period I had an issue and they told me that I would have a hard time swallowing it also. I too am on a fixed retirement income and can't afford to be spending money on something that may have been defective from the start.

However, my point in an earlier post was that unless it is some type of safety issue that is effecting a significant number of Harley's out there on the road the agency you went to will not do anything. I'm sure the person you spoke with was pleasant and took your information. The last thing he needs is for some congressman from your state calling his boss and reporting him as rude.

Good luck with getting it fixed correctly. I think you are going to have to take a chance and let Harley do their thing and hope for the best.

[wlibert]

"They said said they had to tear it a part to see what is going on and that if the issue in there wasn't going to be covered under warranty I would have to pay them for 4.5 hours of labor at $108 per hour. Since I am on a fixed income that is a risk I can't take so I told them no and picked up. Again they may be telling a a load of crap about what I just said."



Bill, I can feel your pain. I don't have an extended warranty, but if at the end of my factory warranty period I had an issue and they told me that I would have a hard time swallowing it also. I too am on a fixed retirement income and can't afford to be spending money on something that may have been defective from the start.

However, my point in an earlier post was that unless it is some type of safety issue that is effecting a significant number of Harley's out there on the road the agency you went to will not do anything. I'm sure the person you spoke with was pleasant and took your information. The last thing he needs is for some congressman from your state calling his boss and reporting him as rude.

Good luck with getting it fixed correctly. I think you are going to have to take a chance and let Harley do their thing and hope for the best.

Mine has been at the dealership where I got it since Tuesday afternoon and I have been assured by the manager of their customer relations department that it will get fixed but I'm still holding my breath. I told them from the start that this would be public whether my trike is fixed or not simply because I don't want to some on get hurt. I also told them that their process to determine whether they want resell a trike is broken. Anyone with common sense would have seen the belt up against the left shoulder of the sprocket and that is so tight that you could use it as band saw blade. Any attempt on their part to adjust the belt deflection would have failed as it did for me and the other people that helped. The failure would have led them to the swing arm shaft. So wither someone didn't look at it or someone did and blew it off.

I agree with you in regards to the safety issue but I think that is an unknown that comes with everything made by mankind. I've tried to raise awareness at HD but when I called I either was transferred to someones voicemail or to the wrong person and then they would transfer me to someones voicemail I think everyone who has this and takes it in to their own dealership isn't going to raise up to HD either. So, I don't know how to get this in front of a larger audience so more people can file a complaint.

Yes the women that took the complaint was kind and she told me that there were no guarantees. She said I needed to ask people to file a complaint and include my complaint number in their complaint. So I do agree with you that this is going to be tough but there are a lot of tough things that happen in life and we do the right thing and accept the results. That's the way I live. My goal with all of this was to raise awareness to other trike owners so that they knew it was there. I couldn't just sit on the sideline and not say something I just don't operate like that. I put a little story at then end of this and it's off topic but it's the kind of tough thing that can happen in life and it happened to me. This one is about other people and that's always been something important to me.

So I guess we will have to wait and see what NHTSA does. Regardless of what they do. I will sleep ok tonight knowing that I did the right thing.

Thank you for participating in this thread. I hope your retirement was something you chose to do. Mine was not and I was forced out of a very success career where I was Systems Engineer. getting to the top of that field was a lot of hard work and I had no education at all along the way. One thing I was always good at was just figuring it out. I wrote some software that could deploy Windows to hundreds of thousands of computers spread out around the world just by starting a computer up and answering a few questions about the software required for the computer and hitting the Enter key. I wrote it out of necessity starting with Windows 95 and it's 30 or so diskettes. I had engineers all around the world spending hours of time installing those diskettes. Our company had a Microsoft engineer onsite 2 days every two weeks and an account manger twice a month. The account manager. The account manager knew Microsoft was writing new tools to due what I had already done so he bumped it up the chain and Microsoft asked my company if I could come out to Redmond and work with them tool get their tools going and my company said yes. They told me could go but I had to maintain my current work at the same time so for every version of Windows from that point on I spent 3 to 4 weeks out in Redmond with their software engineers and then I would meet the same people at Microsoft's TechEd conference and see what they built. It was a very cool experience for me. Then it all got snatched from in one day due to health issues. It's been a tough pill to swallow but that's life. I think we all get hit with unexpected things. And, honestly I wouldn't even have this trike if it wasn't for someone else's generosity.

Sorry for the long off topic rant. I share stuff like this because you never know who it may help. It shows that people can make it through some difficult times and come out the other side and participate in life.

[peteg59]

I hope this works out in your favor Bill.

It's difficult at best fighting "city hall", but as an engineer you know that the "squeaky wheel gets the grease". You've made a point of bringing this issue to the attention of many, so in the end you may very well come away with the solution you want. Best of luck to you & let us know how this plays out, going forward...

[wlibert]

Very weird 2 versions of the post above. I started writing one and my screen blinked and the one I was writing disappeared so I started over. Now I see them both and no way to delete one.

[MikeyTX]

Very weird 2 versions of the post above. I started writing one and my screen blinked and the one I was writing disappeared so I started over. Now I see them both and no way to delete one.

Sadly, duplicate posts are an issue on this forum. Most other forums allow the deletion of a post.

[wlibert]

Oops, the phone just rang I'm leaving what I was told when they called initially down below the asterisks.. After the first update I sent them the pics at the beginning of this thread showing the bearing damage and they called back right away. They are now going to tear the swing arm out and replace every thing in it and the rubber bushing as well. I'm hoping that it takes care of everything below. The brake rotors are exclude from 'everything'. I've worked on just brakes for everything under the sum and when big groves are cut in a rotor its on both sides. I could be wrong about that on a trike though and if anyone thinks I'm wrong please chime in and tell that the grooving on the inside of the rotors is normal and the amount of brake dust is normal. My rims are totally black after a 30 mile ride.

So i'm going to miss another ride with my club because they are going to have to order all the parts which typical these days. No dealers are keeping anything in stock and I can't got to my dealers web site anymore to check.

************************************************

I got an update from the dealership 5 minutes everything is normal

the hard and fast dart to the right requires hard constant pressure on the right grip or pull on the right - normal

Can't set belt deflection with in spec because something moves - normal

Rear rotors groves on the inner side of the rotor and strange whirring noise when brakes are applied - normal

Rubber and metal shavings in swing arm pivot shaft rubber mount - normal

belt pressed against the left shoulder of the sprocket - normal

I sent them the pictures in the beginning of this thread of the bearing and rubber flakes that were in this rider's rubber mount and bearing. - I said not normal in my email.

The guy i've been working with there said he is serious about getting my trike fix so he was headed down tto have the swing arm taken out so I guess I'm going to miss another ride with my brothers and sisters in the club again this probably the 4th one I'll miss.

I am at the point now that this crap is to much for my health. Stress impacts my nervous system and numbness turns to severe pain. If they don't find anything I'm going to ride and if i get killed will someone on here make sure my dead mangled body is deposited at the front door of their dealership? I think that will get HD's attention and get you guys the help you need to fix your trikes