CSC/Ultra Conversion

[Dwight]

Ok, so I'm thinking about selling my 07 CSC/Ultra. I'm considering several options to replace it. The new bike will be an 09 Ultra, should I consider the Tri Glide or a kit. Happy with the CSC, just want a new trike. If I trade it in I'll lose more money than I want to. If I sell it outright what is a fair price? It doesn't have reverse, wasn't available when I installed it, but has almost all of the other options including the factory 103 kit. Also heard that because of the "Stimulus" I'll be able to deduct the taxes from my 09 income, anybody know if this is true? I'm just looking for thoughts on this, maybe I've missed something that I should take into consideration. Thanks.

Dwight

[John Luciano]

I know NEW CARS bought after Jan. 1, 2009 have deductible sales tax. Not sure of the trike. Myself I would go with another kit. YOU like the CSC. I have heard some trunk leak problems with the TRI GLIDE. And a few other issues.

[ultraboy]

I look at trike prices often, and see lows of 22K up to 29+K for 05-07 Ultra conversions. As far as the tax breaks, yes, "any motor vehicle less than 8500 pounds" would qualify, so bikes/trikes will count.
If I were in the market, and wanted to stay with mother Harley, I'd go for the Tri-Glide. I'm actually in process of writing an article on the FLHTCUTG, from a different viewpoint than the typical 'review' type article. I'll share a few observations here. The TG already has the 103 motor with auto compression releases. It has a factory installed oil cooler, parking brake, generous trunk space, raked trees, longer sliders, steering damper, 70 tooth rear pulley with the ISO dampened cushion drive. The electric motor reverse is full of design and maintenance problems, and should be avoided if possible. It's a 1200$ option, using money better spent on a Champion (or Baker) reverse. The few I have looked at all tend to pop the reverse breaker under certain back-up situations, requiring you to stop, remove the seat, re-set the breaker, re-install the seat, and try again...NO thanks! I spoke with one of the Lehman guys who are doing partial assembly of the TG's, and he said they had 90 of them on the floor, and all had reverse, so you may have to either special order one w/o reverse, or bite the bullet. As John mentioned, there have been trunk leak issues, but I believe Lehman is solving that, along with a couple other "first year model" issues. At a list price of 30K (with out reverse) it's a pretty good deal. Note: I'm told that the '09's are 'sold out' but there will be plenty of 2010's, hopefully with some more color choices.

Ultra

[Papa Zook]

Problem is, I haven't heard of anyone actually getting one out the door anywhere near $30K Ultraboy. Most are more like $37-38K out the door. For that money I can build you a beautiful brand new 2009 Ultra Stage One with a Motor Trike or Champion solid OR independent rear, rake kit, and a reverse that works right every time. You can pick from much better colors and you wont have to wait a year for one either.

[Ironhorsepilot]

I got my Tri-Glide out the door for MSRP of $29,900,plus $1275 reverse and $375 smart security system. I don't think that can be beat if you are looking to purchase an 09 Ultra and then having a kit put on. I might be wrong though.
So far, no problems with my reverse and Harley has sent out a letter about the trunk seal and that will be taken care of in the warranty. So, I say go with the TriGlide. I suppose the 2010's won't have those problems, but that is what the warranty is for. Also, are you aware that a conversion on a new 2009 will void the Harley warranty? That would scare me, but if you are good at working on the bike, then no big deal.

[ultraboy]

Zook, In my neck of the woods, MSRP is the name of the game, period. Anybody selling higher than that deserves the 'stealer' title, and the savvy folks will walk away. Many dealers add-on a bunch of chrome doo-dads, jacking up the price right on the floor, and we have our share of those too. But I'm with ironhorse on this one, at 30K, it's a deal, and with the 2009 sales tax deal Zook, I think the HD crowd is much better off with a factory built Trike. In addition to Ironhorse, I know of two more right in my neighborhood that were purchased for exactly 32,094.65, including sales tax, (dealer threw in shipping and set-up) and one for 33,801.30, with tax and reverse. Can you come close to that for an '09 FLHTCUI with raked trees, 103" motor and oil cooler, with a factory 2 year warantee?

[Papa Zook]

Zook, In my neck of the woods, MSRP is the name of the game, period. Anybody selling higher than that deserves the 'stealer' title, and the savvy folks will walk away. Many dealers add-on a bunch of chrome doo-dads, jacking up the price right on the floor, and we have our share of those too. But I'm with ironhorse on this one, at 30K, it's a deal, and with the 2009 sales tax deal Zook, I think the HD crowd is much better off with a factory built Trike. In addition to Ironhorse, I know of two more right in my neighborhood that were purchased for exactly 32,094.65, including sales tax, (dealer threw in shipping and set-up) and one for 33,801.30, with tax and reverse. Can you come close to that for an '09 FLHTCUI with raked trees, 103" motor and oil cooler, with a factory 2 year warantee?

At $30K I want argue that point Ultra, though I'd be a little skiddish of them with them problems they are having so far.You guys are getting better deals than are being quoted down south. (we are 12 miles from the Florida Line) Probably because 1) our riding season is much longer and 2) demand is high 3) there is a long waiting list. I agree they shouldn't be jacking them up on the price but it is happening down south.

Im going to speck out a new one and see exactly what I could do out of curiosity. BTW, do you know that Harley Dealers are also Lehman dealers and can convert any year Ultra Classic? Do you think it voids the warranty if THEY convert your new Harley? Nope. Legally Harley nor Honda have a leg to stand on if they use that excuse to void your warranty as both companies are totally aware that many of their dealers sell and install conversions on new bikes. I will find and post the law that disallows such claims by them. Its been a heated topic for many years.

[Ironhorsepilot]

Bazooka, with due respect...I love my TriGlide. I think the problems so far are very minor. I sure didn't know that Harley did conversions. I know in Florida I saw a lot of new Ultra Classics with the Roadsmith conversion on the show room floor. They were going for over $40,000!!!!

[Dwight]

Well guys, I can actually buy the Tri Glide under MSRP. Basically, I will get the reverse free. I do agree that the manual reverse is the best way to go. I think if I went with a kit I'd have to try the Hannigan or the new independent Champion kit. I'll ride the Tri Glide tomorrow, mostly curious about the ride since it's a straight axel trike. If it doesn't ride good, then it's probably a new kit for me. Thanks for the comments, keep em coming!

Dwight

[Nana]

Being able to buy any vehicle UNDER MSRP is always a good thing! Let us know what you decide to do.

[Nana]

Also heard that because of the "Stimulus" I'll be able to deduct the taxes from my 09 income, anybody know if this is true? I'm just looking for thoughts on this, maybe I've missed something that I should take into consideration. Thanks.

Dwight

Tax Deduction for Buying A Motorcycle
Vehicles eligible for the motorcycle tax deduction added to the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act are likely to include on-road and dual-sport motorcycles, as well as motorscooters and mopeds, according to the American Motorcyclist Association (AMA). The tax deduction -- first reported by the AMA on Feb. 14 -- was added at the eleventh hour to the landmark $787 billion stimulus package that President Barack Obama signed into law on Feb. 17. "While we are awaiting final language from the Treasury Department, we believe that many motorcycles and scooters will qualify," said Ed Moreland, AMA vice president for government relations. "We have AMA members to thank, because they responded to our appeal to contact their legislators to make sure that motorcycles were part of this inclusive and equitable solution." Moreland added that the efforts of Harley-Davidson, together with AMA, were instrumental in obtaining the same tax deduction that was provided in the stimulus plan for automobile, light truck and RV purchasers. The law also includes a 10 percent tax credit up to $2,500 for street-legal electric motorcycles purchased by December 2011.

The sales and excise tax deduction applies to motorcycles purchased between Feb. 17 and Dec. 31, 2009, with a GVWR (gross vehicle weight rating) less than an 8,500 lbs., and costing less than $49,500. Individuals can take the deduction if they make less than $125,000, or $250,000 for joint filers. The deduction is phased out for taxpayers with income between $125,000 and $135,000 ($250,000 to $260,000 for a joint return). Individuals do not have to itemize to claim the deduction. For more on this visit, AMA-Cycle.org.

[ultraboy]

Zook, I believe you are right-on with the southern dealers, with longer riding seasons, etc. being able to jack prices a bit. And, yes, I'll agree with the Lehman/HD dealer connection. But I'll also have to agree with ironhorse on the pricing of those dealer conversions, which are way out of line with the Tri-Glide. One of my good friends owns a Dealership, and his comment on the Tri-Glide was that the (low) pricing on the Tri-Glide killed his Lehman conversion sales. The warantee void debate will probably go on as long as the dreaded oil debate, but Zook is correct, they can't void the basic factory warantee for something they installed. When I was deeply involved with the Power Commander, the same debate was pretty much squashed with the news that several hundred HD dealers are PC dealers/installers/tuners. Still, if you are a 'stranger' to a particular dealership, they will try their best to deny any claims first.
Keep us posted on your spec-out Zook!

[BlueTrinity]

My dealer is a close friend as well and the reason he never got into conversions is that it is a labor intensive business. He is a happy camper with the TriGlide because he is now in the trike business without having to build them. Additionally. even though the conversion gross sales price is higher, his net profit dollars for the TriGlide are about the same.

Final thought - and nothing negative intended - it's still a Lehman and you have to want a Lehman.

Dave

[ultraboy]

Bluetrinity... Well said, I agree completely.

[ben721364]

I got my Tri-Glide out the door for MSRP of $29,900,plus $1275 reverse and $375 smart security system. I don't think that can be beat if you are looking to purchase an 09 Ultra and then having a kit put on. I might be wrong though.
So far, no problems with my reverse and Harley has sent out a letter about the trunk seal and that will be taken care of in the warranty. So, I say go with the TriGlide. I suppose the 2010's won't have those problems, but that is what the warranty is for. Also, are you aware that a conversion on a new 2009 will void the Harley warranty? That would scare me, but if you are good at working on the bike, then no big deal.

Does the Tri-Glide have a live axle? Is the wheelbase the same as the Lehman kit for the H-D?

[BlueTrinity]

I'm a little confused about the warranty comments. My dealer did all the warranty work needed on my 2006 Ultra which was triked with 12 miles on it. They even offered to write the Harley-Davidson Extended Warranty at the end of the standard warranty.

Dave

[spiritdream]

Also heard that because of the "Stimulus" I'll be able to deduct the taxes from my 09 income, anybody know if this is true? Dwight

Dwight, here's the most recent notice I could find from the IRS website....

Special Tax Break Available for New Car Purchases This Year

IR-2009-30, March 30, 2009

WASHINGTON — The Internal Revenue Service announced today that taxpayers who buy a new passenger vehicle this year may be entitled to deduct state and local sales and excise taxes paid on the purchase on their 2009 tax returns next year.

“For those thinking about buying a new car this year, this deduction may give them a little more drive to make their purchase this year,” said IRS Commissioner Doug Shulman. “This deduction enables taxpayers to buy now and get cash back later on their tax returns.”

The deduction is limited to the state and local sales and excise taxes paid on up to $49,500 of the purchase price of a qualified new car, light truck, motor home or motorcycle.

The amount of the deduction is phased out for taxpayers whose modified adjusted gross income is between $125,000 and $135,000 for individual filers and between $250,000 and $260,000 for joint filers.

IRS also alerted taxpayers that the vehicle must be purchased after Feb. 16, 2009, and before Jan. 1, 2010, to qualify for the deduction.

The special deduction is available regardless of whether a taxpayer itemizes deductions on their return. The IRS reminded taxpayers the deduction may not be taken on 2008 tax returns.

[Dwight]

Ultra,
Where will the article you're writing appear? Also I noticied that the rear sprocket will be a 70 tooth. Do you know what the Ultra comes standard with? I know on my 07, even as a solo bike, you had to slip the clutch to get started. I replaced the standard clutch in my Ultra/CSC with a screaming eagle unit because of that. Maybe the 70 tooth will eliminate this. I guess I'll find out this afternoon when I ride it!

Thanks
Dwight

[Dwight]

Cheri,
Sad to say, after looking at those income guidlines, that I guess I'm gonna git that deduction!

Dwight

[ultraboy]

Dwight... Regarding the article on The Tri-Glide... That's a tough one. It's already huge, lots of pictures, drawings, etc. Originally it was going to the TRI magazine TRIKES, but, well, I kinda like this place better...
On the rear sprocket, starting in '07 (with the 6-speed) the rear was 66 tooth on all the baggers. If you'll recall, HD had a lot of complaints regarding the 5th gear whine, 'clacky' shifting, etc. Toward that end, HD offered a rear cushioned sprocket kit upgrade (standard on 08 and up) It's called the Isolated Drive System, and was touted to improve rider comfort and ride quality by dampening the mechanical noise and vibration caused by the engine's torque pulses. The rubber compensation elements in the sprocket act like a cushion, absorbing the power pulses from the engine. With the IDS installed, "the motorcycle feels more refined, and is quieter while accelerating, shifting and cruising." Kit includes sprocket, compensator bowl, and installation hardware. It was still a 66 tooth sprocket. Anyway, the Tri-Glide uses this same setup, only with a 70 tooth rear. (Still 32 teeth on the tranny)
What else.. Oh, the wheelbase on the TG is 66.65", with an OAL of 105.80", and an OAW of 54.3" Just to continue the spec sheet, the as shipped weight is 1140, with a 1700 pound GVWR, 500 on the front and 1200 on the back. The rear is an aluminum center section with unequal length splined axels into a spool connected to a typical compensator and ring gear with 6 rubber isolators in the 70 tooth sprocket. There are nice heavy-duty bearings with conventional retainers on both ends of each axel. Belt tension adjustment requires loosening 4 pinch block bolts on each side, and adjusting tension with two conventional adjustment bolts/jamb nuts. Certainly not an independant, but not bad either. The air shocks (one on each side) are HD P/N 83480-09, and are unique to the TG. If you know a little about mother Harley's Part Numbering system, the numbers are 5 digits, followed by a dash and two more digits indicating the year the part was first introduced. If the part was modified, changed or superceeded later, it will have an A, B. C. etc. after the last two digits. For example, the little valve cap for the air shock filler is 54323-85A, indicating some kind of change was made to the original -85 part, maybe different material, or whatever, but it will still fit anthing that uses the -85. OK, that was long-winded... Point is that Tri-Glide unique parts all start with 833XX-09, telling me that those rear shocks are newbies. Harley likes the 'one part fits many' deal (I do too) the horn on the TG is from 1990, and that lovely bat-wing fairing is... you guessed it, 1996. OK, two more part numbers... The fork stem nut is 1960, and the fork bracket bolt oil seal is from 1948, almost as old as me, LOL.....
Crap, rambled on again....