rear brake conversion

[Blueskys]

> Question?
> Trying to convert the front brake lever to handle both front and rear
> brakes I know it's been done but I'm not sure of the modifications
> needed.The bike is 2002 Honda 1800 trike.The brakes are no longer linked.
> They are front-front and back -back. The rear are 2--11in. disk brakes.
> I would appreciate any advice.
> Blueskys
>

[1550vt]

I will confess right up front that I don't know a thing about Honda braking systems, but I was just curious as to why you want to do this. I realize there could be lots of good reasons. I had my rear brakes fail on a long trip once and had to bring mine back from Canada on my front brakes only. If you have them linked to one master cylinder, you loose the benefit of having another set of brakes to fall back on. Cars are linked via the mechanical linkage in the brake pedal, but still have two seperate master cylinders for the front and rear.

Anyhow, you will have to obtain a larger front master cylinder to handle the additional caliper piston volume and a valve to balance the fronts and rears. I would know how to do that on a HD, but not familiar enough with the Honda components. It's all just hydraulics, I am just not familar with the Honda hardware.

Good Luck!

[Blueskys]

The reason I need it converted I have a right AK amputation and cannot push on the brake.
blueskys

[Nana]

The reason I need it converted I have a right AK amputation and cannot push on the brake.
blueskys

Excellent reason to make the change you want, blueskys! I'm glad you got your question posted here. I'm sure you will get excellent input from our members

[Gorilla]

Blueshys. I to like VT do not know a lot about the Honda braking system. One thing that you will need to keep in mind is that the master cylinder will need enough volume to move all the caliper cylinders. Then it is tied together. You may also need some type of compensator valve so that you do not lock up one end before the other even starts braking.

[pin-hi]

I'm having this done on my Harley trike build this week. Front and rear brakes will be controlled by the front handle bar brake lever.
I too am an amputee, both off below knee.

They're using a T type set up with banjo bolts and a long braided line to the rear brake.
I don't know the details as I'm not mechanical.

I do know there's a back up plan using a proportioning valve if we're not happy with the first set up.

I had a Kliktronic shifter installed to allow shifting with a two button set up on the left handle grip.

Mine's a 2006 Harley Davidson 1200 cc Sportster and it starting to look awesome!

[1550vt]

It would be fairly simple to just run a longer rear brake line from the rear brake tee to the front handlebar master cylinder and use a double banjo-bolt to make that connection. This would be the simplest way to tie them together, but I wonder about the capacity of the front MC to actuate all the caliper pistons. If it has dual front brake calipers, one of those could be disabled to provide some additional MC capacity. The second caliper up there does not add that much stopping power anyway and there are many bikes out there that just use one front caliper. If this does not work and the brakes are too spongy, I am sure a little larger (capacity) front MC can be obtained.

One more thing to consider would be electric trailer brakes on the rears. You could actuate those with a button on the handlebar. I know they are not nearly as controllable as hydraulic systems, but you could learn to use your fronts for most controlled stopping and the rears to amplify stopping when needed, or to hold the trike at rest.

Who knows....it make work and all you would need to do is get used to the feel. I replaced my rear drums with disc and had to go through the process of finding calipers that would match my stock rear master cylinder and it all worked out very well.

The best of luck to you and I truly hope you can get this worked out. If you are determined to ride....we ought to be able to find a way to make that happen.

[rog1215]

Hello all, i have been lurking for about a month. I have been riding 2 wheel harleys for 32 years with both legs and as of 87 with one left leg.
i have had no problem using only the front brake and very limited control of the rear brake. God has been on my side and with many thousands of miles and 2 trips up to the summit of MT washington i am still almost in one piece !
After this years 4000 mile trip to the black hills my wife decieded to sell her 03 softail and ride with me again, well its been 6 years since that happened last and i a not comfortable with her added weight and less braking.
Well as luck would have it we stopped in a dealership in SD and saw a tri-glide, that solved the problem.
Mine will be here this friday and i am chomping at the bit.
I am getting the street glide version in vivid black.
I am most interested in linking up the brakes on this unit and have done some research through the years.
First off if you try to use the existing stock front brake resivior it probably wont be sufficient for all brakes. and the use of a proporting valve is highly recomened to dial in the proper bias for the front and rear brakes. Wilwood makes a good one, i have one that has been sitiing on my shelve for years and i am determined to link the brakes on this trike with it.
like the earlier poster i have not quite decied how yet but am open to all recomendatiuons and ideas.
Oh by the way i am a Licensed gunsmith and firearms dealer by trade so if anyone needs work let me know, i am busy but can always fit in more
regards, Roger Jillson
Georgia

[Nana]

Way to go Roger!!!!! Welcome to TrikeTalk . I like the look of that new Street Glide trike. You and your wife will have a great time riding it, I know!

[Gorilla]

Welcome aboard Roger. The answer for blueskys is starting to come together with all the responses added together.

[Blueskys]

I want to that all who took the time to give their thoughts on the brake conversion. I've contacted several mechanics both auto and bike.They think it should work with a larger MC and proportioning valve. Since it is experimental they won't takle it till the shop thins out a little.<br />
One question does anyone know what size plunger and the fluid capacity of the 1800 GL front MC??<br />
Great Forum<br />
Blueskys

[1550vt]

If they are headed off in the right direction, I am sure what they need is the volume (as in piston area) of that front MC so they can figure a ratio. I am sure somebody can tell us the size, either in mm or inches..like 5/8, 11/16, 13/16, 18mm...etc. of that front MC. Sometimes, it is stamped on the unit. Once that is known, we can work on caliper area and come up with a size you need for a proper MC-to-caliper ratio.

You can make one MC properly operate any number of calipers (within reason) as long as you get the ratio in area right between the MC and the calipers.

Does anybody out here know the size of that particular front MC and the manufacturer and type of the brake calipers on Blueskys ride???

Once we know that, we can go to a chart and look at the numbers to see which way we need to go. The volume of the reservoir won't matter in this case, once you get them bled and the reservoir filled, that won't be an issue. Since you are trying to use the front MC, there will be no drain-back from any of the calipers up into the reservoir. A good parts-person at the dealership ought to be able to find the size of that MC on the trike now by looking it up.

[ben721364]

There are at least a couple guys on the GL1800 Board who have hand controls. My recollection is that such are commercially available from two or more sources. You might wish to try Google before attempting to reinvent the wheel. Good luck.

[1550vt]

That is very good advice. I have always been so unlucky and tried to do so many impossible things, that I find it hard to come across people that have done what I was trying to do.
Surely, there is someone or some company out there that has crossed this bridge before and Bluesys just needs to find those folks and duplicate what they did.

[rog1215]

heres an update on my brake conversion. Like most projects i have tackled there is always something that makes the plausable a little more complicated.
I wanted to tie my rear line to the tee under my triple tree by removing one of the front calipers. This would be a simple way of determining if the volume of the MC would cover the 2 small rears and one big caliper front.
The problem arose when i found out that harley uses a "fused" system that makes the tees and lines all one piece! Great for production and liability issues but a real PITA for someone doing modifications on their system.
Okay as of today the front lines and tee have been replaced with "Russel" stainless and the proportioing valve has been mounted on a braket under the seat for easy access. i am waiting on a order for the rear brake lines and tee, which will come off the calipers go through the valve and then go forward to the open tee port under he triple tree.
I am confident this will work due to the decreased size of the rear calipers.
my only point of concern is the movement incured by the turning of the handlebars on the line going to the rear.\
I can mimnimize the amount of movement but really cannot tell if it is going to be an issue untill i actually hook it up when the new parts arrive.
so far i am only about 300.00 into this as i have a wholesale account with a llarge bike parts supplier and that helps. I have left the stock rear brake lines and tee going to the original rear pedal MC intact so when i sell i can just hook it back up for new owner.
Well all imput is always welcome, i have to go work on some guns to pay for all this !

[Mr.Wizard]

Have been lurking with enthusiasm to see how successful this will be.

I do have a question/concern though. So I'm just going to lay it out there if that's OK.

Seems the discussion has concentrated on the front MC and volume flow until compressed and will there be enough fluid compression to operate the rear calipers.

My question is, knowing the front MC has a short lever throw while the rear MC has a long throw from the pedal my concern is not whether the front MC capacity will handle the volume flow and compression but will the P valves still be balanced from front to back utilizing a different compression rate of the front MC and actuate the calipers with a common back to front ratio of 30/70?

I would think it would since you are using the stock P valves but the specs for the MC's may be different and that is the X factor.

Just thought I would bring this up.

[rog1215]

Mr Wizard, The proportioning valve is in place between the front and rear brakes. This allows the user to dial in the proper "bias" from front to rear.
hope this answered your question.
Roger

[Mr.Wizard]

Mr Wizard, The proportioning valve is in place between the front and rear brakes. This allows the user to dial in the proper "bias" from front to rear.
hope this answered your question.
Roger

I was thinking that there would be two PV's in use on the same MC. Thus my concern.

Thanks for the reply.

[1550vt]

I'm just eating this up! I love a project like this and I really like the way Rog is attacking it from a standpoint of not wrecking the bike. There are numerous ways the connection could be made with adapter fittings-n-such and it sounds like he has made a good choice.<br />
<br />
Having been through a similar-such project on my disc conversion and being all worried-n-stuff about MC volumes and the like, I remain very interested in this outcome. I wish I knew the piston size and number from those rear calipers, but I have not took the time to dig that out yet. I am thinking a proportioning valve may not be necessary at all.<br />
<br />
Think about it...as long as you apply equal pressures to both rear calipers, the trike won't try and swap ends or pull to one side. It's not really going to matter how the pressure is distributed front-to-backs. I am thinking...so what...if the fronts clamp down a little harder than the rears or the rears are stronger than the fronts. Rog is trying to get all three wheels to slow down and that is all that counts as long as he stops. <br />
<br />
I have &quot;harped&quot; on this before when I hear others say the front brake has all the stopping power on a scooter. That is correct for a 2-wheeler but NOT for a trike.

I've had to ride one 2500 miles back home with only a front brake and I can't tell you it will not make a sudden forced stop with just the front brake.<br />
<br />
The feel may be a bit mushy if the removal of the front caliper does not free-up enough volume, but heck...all he has to do is get use to it and learn how to control and brake. Hurry up and bleed them suckers so we can find out. There is a triker with a Honda that has the same problem and we can help them out here too.

[1550vt]

Oh Rog...I failed to respond to one of your questions. I have a hydraulic clutch line and a fuel pressure gauge line running up my frame backbone through the opening under the inner bat wing fairing and through the same grommet the wiring runs through. Just leave enough slack in your line and "work" the forks back-n-forth to make sure you are not mashing them somewhere. You won't have a problem running that rear brake line up through there, but may have to pull off a piece of your fairing to get it routed. I forget if this is a Dresser or Road King frame, but you can work it out.