Poor Performance?

[TimNeill]

My wife and I justs rolled over 1400 miles on our new 2011 Ultra Clasic trike. It is a beautiful machine, merlot and black...Harley did a great job with the metal flake that is a multitude of colors...quite an eye catcher.

We live in Colorado at about 6800 ft and do allot of ridding above that.
I noticed on a road trip last weekend that I do not have any engine left above 3400 rpm. The throttle still has plenty of movement but that's about it.

In talking my dealer, they of course say I need to spend another 2500 or so on top of the thousands spent for the machine to stage 1 it to get the performance...while I do agree ridding at altitude has different physics then sea level it still seems to me if I can move the throttle, my engine rpm should go up accordingly.

Have any of you experienced this issue? if so, are you just living with it or what have you done.
Thanks

[tis]

I just had the Twin Cam & I went with the big bore kit as soon as I bought the bike, since you started with a bigger engine, someone with equal power will have to answer.

[Doc]

Did an LA Choppers Big Air Intake and Cobra Fuel Management for under $500 and I have great throttle response at any range, plus I'm getting 39mpg with less than 500 miles on the OD...can't wait to see what she's doing after a good break-in. Hopefully some of the HD owners will have some good suggestions for you.<br />
<br />
Ed

[Greydog]

What gear were you riding in at 3400 rpm? I would think that even with a stock engine in 6th gear you should be fairly rocketing down the road at that rpm. My '08 Ultra/Champion is doing about 70 mph in 6th at around 2500 rpm. 6th gear is pretty much just an overdrive on these big bikes and in stock configuration is about worthless at 60mph and under. I only use it when I can run 70 mph and above and keep the engine rpm above 2500. My bike runs about 60 mph in 5th gear at about 2400 rpm.<br />
<br />
My friend has an '09 Triglide that was a dog on the Interstate. After several complaints to the dealer they discovered a faulty throttle position sensor and replaced it. He says it runs much better in 6th gear now.

[Doc37]

My first experience with altitude was on a BMW R100/7 at Denver I had to head for Colorado Springs for the carburators to be leaned out. At altitude a normally aspired engine does not do well since the air is so dense. To start a campfire is different than in Kansas also, as well as the time it takes for water to boil . and it boils at a different temperature as well.<br />
<br />
What you need to do to your engine to get what you want in the most sensible way is to turbocharge it. No engine mods are required internally and it will run fine at any altitude since it is no longer dependent on atmospheric pressure to run. Fuel injection with a turbo is a definite plus factor as well. Most newer Harley's have it stock.<br />
<br />
If you go this route, two things you will want in that system is an innercooler and a waste gate. The turbo is powered by your exhaust gases and burns even cleaner and more efficiently. It is not unusual to gain 30% more power over stock with no other modifications to the engine and better gas mileage as well. Some have even claimed to have doubled their HP.

I think the 30% is what I would count on.

[Mr.Wizard]

It's nice that the 2011 TG has the lower gear ratio. Keeps the engine RPM's a bit higher for normal cruising. Due to the ECM lean calibrations and the catalyst device in the exhaust pipe the motor just can't breath.

Changing to a Stage 1 (aftermarket pipes, air cleaner and free flowing mufflers plus a new ECM flash upgrade) will help with both performance and rider heat. If you are considering a new tuning device you should also consider there is a new throttle body for the 2011 Harley bikes and the aftermarket tuners will need a little more time to catch up with the factory changes.

The SEST (450.00) has the newer calibrations but it's another 400 bucks to dyno the calibration file. If you simply want to have the ECM flashed without purchasing the SEST or other tuning device then get the Stage II map not the Stage I. There is a difference in the AFR's and VE tables that you will need for the trike to be cooler and run stronger.

There's a lot more to this but just beware... it doesn't take 2500.00 to wake them up so watch your wallet around your dealership.

:yes:

[Gorilla]

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<img src="images/misc/quote_icon.png" alt="Quote" /> Originally Posted by <strong>Doc37</strong>
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<div class="message">My first experience with altitude was on a BMW R100/7 at Denver I had to head for Colorado Springs for the carburators to be leaned out. At altitude a normally aspired engine does not do well since the air is so dense. To start a campfire is different than in Kansas also, as well as the time it takes for water to boil . and it boils at a different temperature as well.<br />
<br />
What you need to do to your engine to get what you want in the most sensible way is to turbocharge it. No engine mods are required internally and it will run fine at any altitude since it is no longer dependent on atmospheric pressure to run. Fuel injection with a turbo is a definite plus factor as well. Most newer Harley's have it stock.<br />
<br />
If you go this route, two things you will want in that system is an innercooler and a waste gate. The turbo is powered by your exhaust gases and burns even cleaner and more efficiently. It is not unusual to gain 30% more power over stock with no other modifications to the engine and better gas mileage as well. Some have even claimed to have doubled their HP.

I think the 30% is what I would count on.</div>

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welcome aboard doc37 glad you found us.

[Gorilla]

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<img src="images/misc/quote_icon.png" alt="Quote" /> Originally Posted by <strong>TimNeill</strong>
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<div class="message">My wife and I justs rolled over 1400 miles on our new 2011 Ultra Clasic trike. It is a beautiful machine, merlot and black...Harley did a great job with the metal flake that is a multitude of colors...quite an eye catcher.<br />
<br />
We live in Colorado at about 6800 ft and do allot of ridding above that.<br />
I noticed on a road trip last weekend that I do not have any engine left above 3400 rpm. The throttle still has plenty of movement but that's about it.<br />
<br />
In talking my dealer, they of course say I need to spend another 2500 or so on top of the thousands spent for the machine to stage 1 it to get the performance...while I do agree ridding at altitude has different physics then sea level it still seems to me if I can move the throttle, my engine rpm should go up accordingly.<br />
<br />
Have any of you experienced this issue? if so, are you just living with it or what have you done.<br />
Thanks</div>

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See the Wizards thread for dealing with the heat issue under this Harley header. His advise holds for your problem also. You just suffer from the motor not being able to move enough air to make power. Congrats on the trike purchase.

[TimNeill]

Thanks to all for the suggestions and advise. This is my first trike and I still have my 02 Fatboy which screams, even at this atlitude...but then again, it has custom pipes and stage 1. I am also not used to the additional weight of the bike and havin a sixth gear. I will try some extended ridding this weekend pushing 5th gear future....

I do greatly appreciate having this forum to bring concens to.
Thanks again,
Tim

[rebelrph]

this is an update to a post from about 3 weeks ago, but I can't find it to "quote" it so I'll give brief recap....

We bought a 2010 triglide and I came here seeking info about poor performance and gas mileage. the info I found was invaluable. We bought it for my wife on saturday August 21 and took it back on Tuesday the 24th. The EDM was found to be calibrated incorrectly and was sent back to MOCO for recalibration. After my research here I requested the following be done before we picked it up (today):

install 255 cams, stage 2 + smart tune, V&H exhaust, and a screaming eagle heavy breather

none of this was an original idea of mine, it all came for this board.

We now have a great sounding, high performance Tri-glide !!! the way it should have been from the factory !!

I really enjoyed the 100 mile ride home from the dealer. I was able to use 6th gear, set the cruise on 70 running 2700rpm and never touch the throttle.
bumped up to 80 just to see rpm there (3,000).

thanks to all those who figured this stuff out and posted it here for folks like me ....

TC

[Nana]

Congratulations! Sounds like you've got a trike to really enjoy now. <br />
Ride safe!!!! and don't forget to share your adventures with us.

[Gorilla]

this is an update to a post from about 3 weeks ago, but I can't find it to "quote" it so I'll give brief recap....

We bought a 2010 triglide and I came here seeking info about poor performance and gas mileage. the info I found was invaluable. We bought it for my wife on saturday August 21 and took it back on Tuesday the 24th. The EDM was found to be calibrated incorrectly and was sent back to MOCO for recalibration. After my research here I requested the following be done before we picked it up (today):

install 255 cams, stage 2 + smart tune, V&H exhaust, and a screaming eagle heavy breather

none of this was an original idea of mine, it all came for this board.

We now have a great sounding, high performance Tri-glide !!! the way it should have been from the factory !!

I really enjoyed the 100 mile ride home from the dealer. I was able to use 6th gear, set the cruise on 70 running 2700rpm and never touch the throttle.
bumped up to 80 just to see rpm there (3,000).

thanks to all those who figured this stuff out and posted it here for folks like me ....

TC

Congrats on the wake-up of your trike.

[Mr.Wizard]

We can have you doing wheelies by next week. <img src="images/smilies/grin.gif" border="0" alt="" title="big grin" class="inlineimg" /> <img src="images/smilies/grin.gif" border="0" alt="" title="big grin" class="inlineimg" />

[msocko3]

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<img src="images/misc/quote_icon.png" alt="Quote" /> Originally Posted by <strong>Mr.Wizard</strong>
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<div class="message">We can have you doing wheelies by next week. <img src="images/smilies/grin.gif" border="0" alt="" title="big grin" class="inlineimg" /> <img src="images/smilies/grin.gif" border="0" alt="" title="big grin" class="inlineimg" /></div>

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</div>Funny you should mention wheelies.... The wife found out the Triglide will pick the front end up like my 06 Ultra will, She now calls me a rebel<img src="images/smilies/grin.gif" border="0" alt="" title="big grin" class="inlineimg" />.

[1550vt]

Back-in-the-day before EFI, 5,000 feet was considered as the elevation for re-jetting. I have been all over the Rockies, including the real tall ones up in Canada on a normally aspirated (carburetor) job and the EFI models as well. You had to really work to get across some of the passes with your carb equipped bike. The MM (early) EFI is a bit better but I understand that it does not take a constant look at elevation and re-tune as it goes. If you shut the MM equipped bike off for a couple of minutes going up a mountain, it will reset, but it will stay on the map it's on until you stop again...then it will reset. I am sure the Delphi system is suppose to keep a constant watch on elevation and the guys I ride with on the newer bikes, have no complaints. None of them have ever mentioned the loss of power up there in the hills, but even my MM older ride is a bit sluggish up around 10,000 feet. But...I don't shut it down on the road-side going up and down mountains to let it "smell" of itself either. However, I have had a defective baro-sensor on a 2000 Ultra that expressed itself as running much too rich down here in the flat-lands. I live in a place named Summit.

The reason it was named Summit is because it is the highest elevation along the Illinois Central Railroad between Memphis and New Orleans....a whopping 272-feet above sea level.

[tis]

Glad you were able to wake your Tri-Glide up a little, you would think that a 110 engine would push you down the Road a little better, it almost seems like they sell you something detuned, and wait for you to start buying the performance products. Any ways welcome to the site......tis

[John Luciano]

Well talking to a new HD triker last night (Iurged him to join ) he said he was not happy with the performance of his . Last week he removed the beautiful chrome air cleaner cover and he said it ran 50% better. 4 days ago he replaced the cover with the screaming Eagle one and now hills he had to 4th he can now climb in 6th .

[Casper]

Funny you should mention wheelies.... The wife found out the Triglide will pick the front end up like my 06 Ultra will, She now calls me a rebel.

Would that be without a clue?
what mine calls me...

[msocko3]

Would that be without a clue?
what mine calls me...

She hasn't gone that far yet. I did remind her what she said the 1st time the front end come up on my 06 Ultra while she was on back. She thought it was neat then and wanted me to do it a 2nd time, for some reason she wasn't impressed with twice on the trike.

[Papa Bear]

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<img src="images/misc/quote_icon.png" alt="Quote" /> Originally Posted by <strong>rebelrph</strong><br /><br />
<a href="showthread.php?p=42687#post42687" rel="nofollow"><img class="inlineimg" src="images/buttons/viewpost-right.png" alt="View Post" /></a><br /><br />
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<div class="message">this is an update to a post from about 3 weeks ago, but I can't find it to "quote" it so I'll give brief recap....<br /><br /><br />
<br /><br /><br />
We bought a 2010 triglide and I came here seeking info about poor performance and gas mileage. the info I found was invaluable. We bought it for my wife on saturday August 21 and took it back on Tuesday the 24th. The EDM was found to be calibrated incorrectly and was sent back to MOCO for recalibration. After my research here I requested the following be done before we picked it up (today):<br /><br /><br />
<br /><br /><br />
install 255 cams, stage 2 + smart tune, V&amp;H exhaust, and a screaming eagle heavy breather<br /><br /><br />
<br /><br /><br />
none of this was an original idea of mine, it all came for this board. <br /><br /><br />
<br /><br /><br />
We now have a great sounding, high performance Tri-glide !!! the way it should have been from the factory !! <br /><br /><br />
<br /><br /><br />
I really enjoyed the 100 mile ride home from the dealer. I was able to use 6th gear, set the cruise on 70 running 2700rpm and never touch the throttle. <br /><br /><br />
bumped up to 80 just to see rpm there (3,000).<br /><br /><br />
<br /><br /><br />
thanks to all those who figured this stuff out and posted it here for folks like me ....<br /><br /><br />
<br /><br /><br />
TC</div><br /><br />
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Hey Rebelrph, Got my Ultra tri-Glide in March.<br /><br />
<br /><br />
Got back from Sturgis last August and totally disgusted with performance.<br />
<br />
It's a rotten shame to spend 30kplus for a machine and have to spend more for an upgrade to get it to run right.

I was wandering what they picked you pocket for and who did the work. I have 6k miles on mine now and the dealer keeps telling me it's not broke in yet. BS! Thanks for any help you can give me.