VW trike back brakes

[greg will]

Looking for some advice on rear drum brakes for a VW trike. Best master cyl to wheel cyl setup. My brakes are horrible.

[vwmaniac]

If you were to change out the wheel cylindar to the large ones that come off the front brakes would be a start[larger and more stopping power] also on the master, I use a 5/8' bore cyl. from EMPI and they work great, the smaller the bore the better, hope this helps.

[Rsw]

Since the brakes are the most important part of the trike, it is the best place to spend money. Along with VWMANIC's suggestions, you might try a residual valve. It goes in the brake line anywhere before you split it to the rear wheels. It holds 10 psi pressure in the line and it is suppose to makes for quicker break action and eliminate the need to pump up the brakes. Use a 10 psi one for drum brakes and a 2psi for disc brakes Here is just one place that offers them.

VW Brakes – Dune Buggy Braking Systems | AppleTreeAuto.com

Another way to go is with disc brakes like this set up here.

Disc Brake Kit, Bug/Ghia/Super Beetle '68-'79, Rear, e-Brake, 5-Lug (Dual Pattern - Chevy/Ford - 5x4-3/4, 5x4-1/2) • So Cal Imports

Hope this helps!

[beastonthemoor]

Hi, having just gone through the brake problem senario, just thought i would add this, tried the disc set up and as far as i am concerned i wasted loads of money, but a 5/8 th master cylynder and 22mm front wheel cylynders, is the way to go, add to that change the rear brake drum and shoes,back plates from an early type 3 ,1966 to 1973 they have wider shoes 45mm, some also had 50mm. So wider shoes bigger drums =more stopping power, hope that may save some head aches.

[Rsw]

beastonthemoor...did you use a residual valve when you tryed the disc brake set up? Also, what master cyclinder did you use?

[vwmaniac]

I use the disc brake setup all the time and have not had any problems with them not stopping, as with the drum brakes as well, and have not used any residual valves on a trike as of this day, don't need them.
I have even used the master cyl. off a HD[5/8] and work just fine.
But , here is something to think about, if the master is lower than the rear wheel cylindars, you will have a hard time getting them to work and will need the residula valves to keep the fluid from returning back to the master.
Just my 2 cents worth.

[Rsw]

Good point on the location of the master cylinder. The selling point that got me on using a residual valve is it can save you one second of brake reaction time. That’s 65 feet quicker you will stop at 55 mph. If you have any brake fade and have to pump the breaks once you lose over 130 to 185 feet of stopping room. For $20.00, I am going to use one. The big wheel cylinders and wide shoes sounds like a really good set up also. But is there a drum that you don’t have to use wheel adapters on?

[vwmaniac]

Yes on the wheel without using an apadpter, vw buses[1982 and newer] will take a Ford Ranger 5 lug wheel, but then you need the whole thing[backing plates and all, but don't think they will fit a older vw torsion,

[beastonthemoor]

beastonthemoor...did you use a residual valve when you tryed the disc brake set up? Also, what master cyclinder did you use?

HI, IN RESPONSE, NO I NEVER HAVE USED A RESIDUAL VALVE ALTHOUGH HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT IT A FEW TIMES, AS FOR THE MASTER CYLYNDER IT WAS A LOCKHEED 3/4in DIA, FROM A LANDROVER SERIES THREE STILL MADE TODAY ABOUT £22.00 GBP,
GOT ME THINKING ABOUT THAT VALVE AGAIN NOW THOUGH,
REGARDS STEVE UK.

[vwmaniac]

HI, IN RESPONSE, NO I NEVER HAVE USED A RESIDUAL VALVE ALTHOUGH HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT IT A FEW TIMES, AS FOR THE MASTER CYLYNDER IT WAS A LOCKHEED 3/4in DIA, FROM A LANDROVER SERIES THREE STILL MADE TODAY ABOUT £22.00 GBP,
GOT ME THINKING ABOUT THAT VALVE AGAIN NOW THOUGH,
REGARDS STEVE UK.

3/4 " is too big for a master on the brakes, but you probably found out like most of us have and the valve is okay to use, might work, I just don't use them.
Have a great one.

[Rsw]

I'm going to use 3/4 inch master cylinder because thats what size the company that made the duel piston disc brake set up told me to use. How will it be to big?

[vwmaniac]

I'm going to use 3/4 inch master cylinder because thats what size the company that made the duel piston disc brake set up told me to use. How will it be to big?

Lollll, you do what you want to do, smaller is better in this case, so have fun with it and have a great holiday.

[Rsw]

VWMANIC... I rechecked with three places that sale brake parts for VW’s and make sand rails. I told them I was talking about brakes on a trike and they said it would be about the same as a sand rail because most just use rear breaks. All three said the ¾ inch bore master cylinder was standard and what they recommend for disc brake set ups. They all said they would use a residual valve for quicker brake reaction and prevent bleed off that causes brake fade. 2 of the 3 places said they also use a ¾ inch master cylinder on vw wheel cylinders. One did say a ¾ might make the peddle a little hard, but will work fine. This information is coming from people that build brake systems every day. I respect your knowledge, but this is what I am being told by others.

[vwmaniac]

Okay,
that is fine with me, but if I use 3/4 system like you and them say, I have problems with the system, so if it works for you, then use it as I will with my way.

[KDHUFF]

parts salesmen or experince......I know which one I would go with

[Rsw]

KDHUFF...I was up front with everyone I talked to that I wasn't interested in buying anything. VWMANIAC said he never used a residual valve, so how would he know how they work. I'll take the advise from someone that sales and builds everyday over someone that puts something together in his spare time any day of the week. The price difference between a 5/8 and 3/4 isn't enough to talk a person into buying the bigger one anyway.

[KDHUFF]

discussion is a little moot as the guy that started the post has not got back on. all I can say for sure is I have disc brakes, 5/8 bore master and no residual valve and It does great. I guess others could have different results. He is doing the right thing by asking questions. Its up to him to decide whats best in the end.

[Rsw]

Heres a little reading on the subject.

The Brake Man.com - ValveTechI
TheSamba.com :: View topic - Residual Valve Question - Help Please
TheSamba.com :: View topic - So are EMPI rear disc conversions OK?

[rick3095]

Hi, having just gone through the brake problem senario, just thought i would add this, tried the disc set up and as far as i am concerned i wasted loads of money, but a 5/8 th master cylynder and 22mm front wheel cylynders, is the way to go, add to that change the rear brake drum and shoes,back plates from an early type 3 ,1966 to 1973 they have wider shoes 45mm, some also had 50mm. So wider shoes bigger drums =more stopping power, hope that may save some head aches.

Thank you for your help I am going down the same road was looking at the disk brake too but now I am not but there is a plus to the disk brakes no worry about leaking seals and the castle nut

[rick3095]

discussion is a little moot as the guy that started the post has not got back on. all I can say for sure is I have disc brakes, 5/8 bore master and no residual valve and It does great. I guess others could have different results. He is doing the right thing by asking questions. Its up to him to decide whats best in the end.

okay you have the disk brakes and you like them