Removing Champion reverse on a 5 speed

Hi all. Some years ago I fitted the reverse kit to my 5 speed Harley trike. I have since sold the trike and the new owner has contacted me to say getting it in to reverse has become almost impossible. Now in all the years I had it, I never had a problem. It all points to him probably selecting reverse while in forward gear. I’ve offered to help. Has anyone had this issue and can they offer some advice. All forward gears are fine although N has become hard to find. Any advice greatly appreciated.

Thanks

[QUOTE=knockdolian;621355]Hi all. Some years ago I fitted the reverse kit to my 5 speed Harley trike. I have since sold the trike and the new owner has contacted me to say getting it in to reverse has become almost impossible. Now in all the years I had it, I never had a problem. It all points to him probably selecting reverse while in forward gear. I’ve offered to help. Has anyone had this issue and can they offer some advice. All forward gears are fine although N has become hard to find. Any advice greatly appreciated.

Thanks[/QUOTE]

Have the new owner try this before he has the reverse removed. Put the transmission in first and then put the lever in the reverse position. Shift to neutral and then back up. I do this and it works perfectly without grind. Hope this helps.

[QUOTE=PSL5082;622004]Have the new owner try this before he has the reverse removed. Put the transmission in first and then put the lever in the reverse position. Shift to neutral and then back up. I do this and it works perfectly without grind. Hope this helps.[/QUOTE]

Hi, thanks for your reply. I’ll get him to try but the problem seems to be the lever just won’t move ?.

If neutral is hard to find sounds like clutch isn't fully releasing. Maybe just a clutch adjustment.

[QUOTE=knockdolian;622006]Hi, thanks for your reply. I’ll get him to try but the problem seems to be the lever just won’t move ?.[/QUOTE]

It sounds like he may be caught between forward and reverse. That happened to me once. If the trike won't move and the lever is stuck, have him try rocking the trike back and forth. That may free it up.

[QUOTE=PSL5082;622017]It sounds like he may be caught between forward and reverse. That happened to me once. If the trike won't move and the lever is stuck, have him try rocking the trike back and forth. That may free it up.[/QUOTE]

It’s not locked up. He can ride it fine he just can’t get it in to reverse. I think he’s tried forcing it in to reverse while in in 1st. From what I remember when fitting it there’s not much to it. My concern is removing the trap door. Would I heed to replace the crush washers and grub screws ?

Unfortunately if you didn't save the original parts that were removed to install the reverse, he'll be looking for a few new/used parts.

It's been 20 years since I installed my reverse kit and I can't remember what all came out, but without the original or replacement stock trans parts he won't be simply taking out the reverse kit.

Best he leave it together and simply not use it, if the trans still shifts okay in all 5 forward gears...:Shrug:

If the trans is in any gear other than Neutral, the reverse will not engage, and could quite possibly cause internal damage in trying to engage reverse in any other gear than Neutral.

So nobody has actually taken the reverse trap door off before? Think we will just take it off and see what happens ?

[QUOTE=knockdolian;623733]So nobody has actually taken the reverse trap door off before? Think we will just take it off and see what happens ?[/QUOTE]

Paul,

Removing the trap door is the easy part generally speaking if you have (or make up) a puller.

Make sure the gear lever is working externally first.

The lever is spring loaded, does the lever push-in and out easily ???

[B]Some new owners don't know there is a detente area in the actuation of the handle and just try to force it to move. [/B]

This could bend the handle-shaft and not allow the handle to push-in through the brass bushing, getting it out of the lock position.

If it is a mechanical issue with the actuator, then the door needs to be removed.

The toughest part is removing the gears from the shaft and may require a little heat to soften the glue.

[url]http://championsidecars.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/reverse_5_speed_trans.pdf[/url]

The toughest part is removing the gears from the shaft and may require a little heat to soften the glue [/QUOTE]

Thanks Lee. This is the information I’m after. I think the problem is with the detente as it’s moving the leaver is the issue. The gears shouldn’t have to come off. I think to get the trap door of with the linkage and the idler you remove the grub screws then undo the big Allan head bolts. Remove the trap door with a puller. That would leave the gears on the shaft right ?

my main concern is the grub screws I remember were plastic and the shafts are shimmed to give the right clearance. That shouldn’t change but think the crush washers would need replacing. Am I talking bollocks ????

[QUOTE=knockdolian;623821]The toughest part is removing the gears from the shaft and may require a little heat to soften the glue [/QUOTE]

Thanks Lee. This is the information I’m after. I think the problem is with the detente as it’s moving the leaver is the issue. The gears shouldn’t have to come off. I think to get the trap door of with the linkage and the idler you remove the grub screws then undo the big Allan head bolts. Remove the trap door with a puller. That would leave the gears on the shaft right ?

my main concern is the grub screws I remember were plastic and the shafts are shimmed to give the right clearance. That shouldn’t change but think the crush washers would need replacing. Am I talking bollocks ????[/QUOTE]

If you examine and determine that the lever is bent slightly, you may be able to straighten it enough without removal. To remove the lever does require removal of the trap door.

When removing the big nuts with the wave washers and shims beneath, there is a plastic (nylon) washer beneath. I use a dental pick to remove everything just so that they don't fall out while working on the cover. Keep these washers and nuts separated from main and countershaft. Don't mix them up !!

You need to make a puller to remove the trap door.

The nut has 2 screws each and they are 1/4"x 20 nylon grub screws. Might not be available in the UK. I have gone to the hardware store and bought long nylon screws and cut my own replacements.

If you examine and determine that the lever is bent slightly, you may be able to straighten it enough without removal. To remove the lever does require removal of the trap door.

When removing the big nuts with the wave washers and shims beneath, there is a plastic (nylon) washer beneath. I use a dental pick to remove everything just so that they don't fall out while working on the cover. Keep these washers and nuts separated from main and countershaft. Don't mix them up !!

You need to make a puller to remove the trap door.

The nut has 2 screws each and they are 1/4"x 20 nylon grub screws. Might not be available in the UK. I have gone to the hardware store and bought long nylon screws and cut my own replacements.[/QUOTE]

Thanks again. Sounds like you have don this before. Why, did you have the same issue. I made the tool to remove the original trap door. Might still have it. As far as I remember it was a bit of two inch flat with some holes. So as long as I keep all the shims together and in the right order for the right shaft I should be able to torque the big Alan caps and jobs a goodun yes ? Any reason why the grub screws are nylon . Can they not be steel ?

[QUOTE=knockdolian;623834]

Thanks again. Sounds like you have don this before. [B]Why, did you have the same issue.[/B] I made the tool to remove the original trap door. Might still have it. As far as I remember it was a bit of two inch flat with some holes. So as long as I keep all the shims together and in the right order for the right shaft I should be able to torque the big Alan caps and jobs a goodun yes ? Any reason why the grub screws are nylon . Can they not be steel ?[/QUOTE]

Screws need to hold the nut like a nyloc. You shouldn't have to disturb the gears.

As I said earlier, sometimes the rider doen't push the lever down and tries to force it, bending the shaft.

Happens usually to the second owner.........:(

[QUOTE=Lee H. Mann;623837]Screws need to hold the nut like a nyloc. You shouldn't have to disturb the gears.

As I said earlier, sometimes the rider doen't push the lever down and tries to force it, bending the shaft.

Happens usually to the second owner.........:([/QUOTE]

6 years I fitted it. No issues. After second owners had it fo 3 months. It don’t work. Thanks again.

paul

[QUOTE=knockdolian;623838]6 years I fitted it. No issues. After second owners had it fo 3 months. It don’t work. Thanks again.

paul[/QUOTE]

Paul, did you get it squared away yet ???:Shrug:

Hi Lee, thanks for your interest. In a word no not yet. The chap who owns it is a friend but lives about 150 miles away. I will at some point . I was re reading your reply and I think what you say about bent leaver is on the money. I’m guessing it would still have to all come off to get it out or will trying to straighten it in situ make things worse ? Hopefully I can get up there over Christmas when I have some time off and see what’s happening.

Thanks again

Paul

Hi all, sorry for the late reply. The problem is now sorted. I wasn’t involved in the repair. Turns out the roll pin that holds the leaver on had come out and was locking up the mechanism. Eventually the leaver came off. My brother made a trap door puller , fitted a new roll pin and all is well. 👍

[QUOTE=knockdolian;689956]Hi all, sorry for the late reply. The problem is now sorted. I wasn’t involved in the repair. Turns out the roll pin that holds the leaver on had come out and was locking up the mechanism. Eventually the leaver came off. My brother made a trap door puller , fitted a new roll pin and all is well. 👍[/QUOTE]

Thank you always good to have a followup to close out an issue.