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I was looking in the P&A to see what is available to upgrade my engine.
Every upgrade had the note: will not fit Trike models.
Not sure why, just changing cylinders and pistons and the 114 and 117 from the factory fit.
My service guy doesn't know why either, but he said it's not an EPA issue.
Thanks for any info.
Pretty sure this has been discussed in another thread. If I recall correctly the consensus was that HD had not filed this mod to a trike with the EPA. it seems it is not sufficient that it has been approved for two wheelers and it must be submitted for the trike. I guess the cost of doing so was not deemed worthwhile thinking there would not be sufficient interest from trike owners.
I'd bet my next paycheck its EPA related, somehow.
Restrictive govt regulations are bad for business.:mad:
Someone needs to bring this travesty to the attention of Pres. Trump, so he can "fix" what is snarling up the works at EPA so the MOCO can go after the trike business.
Gotta believe its only a computer thing for crying out loud!!!:Shrug::Shrug:
I am confused here
Are we talking about 107 to 114 or to 117?
We already have a M8 107 and 114 stock configuration
I think the OP want to upgrade his from a 107 to a 114, I think but according to him it is not for trikes, just 2 wheelers which I can't figure out either why you can't do this to the trike.
All for now Trampas
That's just Harleys catalog.
Several companies have upgrades for the new M8.
Here is a link to 1 thread discussing upgrading the 107 cu. in.
[URL]https://www.triketalk.com/forum/threads/51654-124-quot-Power-Package-for-2017-19-Harley-Davidson%C2%AE-M8-Models-Anyone-Do-This[/URL]
EPA; Issue the mods aren’t /weren’t certified for upgrading a Trike..
When Ford stoped making the ranger engine that was use in the Stallon , They could not justify the cost to certify a different engine..And stopped manufacturing the Stallon...
[QUOTE=rhino 2;700560]EPA; Issue the mods aren’t /weren’t certified for upgrading a Trike..
When Ford stoped making the ranger engine that was use in the Stallon , They could not justify the cost to certify a different engine..And stopped manufacturing the Stallon...[/QUOTE]
This is no longer true with the new M8 114 engine, obviously HD got an EPA certificate for this engine, ( now put in Triglides and Freewheelers) SO I am guessing you will see kits offered by the MOCO to bring the older M8 engines up from 107 to 114 Or you will see the MOCO lag behind the aftermarket once again
[QUOTE=boeing247;700387]I was looking in the P&A to see what is available to upgrade my engine.
Every upgrade had the note: will not fit Trike models.
Not sure why, just changing cylinders and pistons and the 114 and 117 from the factory fit.
My service guy doesn't know why either, but he said it's not an EPA issue.
Thanks for any info.[/QUOTE]
I believe it is all epa related. All kits sold by hd have to comply to epa regs for the bike they are licensed to. I don’t think they, hd, wanted to pay the exorbitant $$$$ for the certifications for the trike models. Let’s not forget hd got nailed for this by the epa for putting compliant engines in models that were not tested/licensed by the epa. Anyway, you might want to look into the 117 or 124 kits available from the after market, better value.
[QUOTE=Jack Klarich;700567]This is no longer true with the new M8 114 engine, obviously HD got an EPA certificate for this engine, ( now put in Triglides and Freewheelers) SO I am guessing you will see kits offered by the MOCO to bring the older M8 engines up from 107 to 114 Or you will see the MOCO lag behind the aftermarket once again[/QUOTE]
I hear you . . . but the M8 114 in the TG is for a different model year and I bet each model year has to be certified.
I talked to a Harley rep and he gave me the story.
The EPA certification is model/engine/year specific.
The 2017 w/the 107 is certified with EPA.
The 2018 with the same engine and the same bike requires a separate certification.
The 2019 with the 114 on essentially the same bike requires a separate certification, and on and on.
Even though the 114 is used on the 2019, since there is no certification for it's use on the 2017, Harley won't sell the engine or the upgrade while the bike is covered under the factory warranty.
Of course, if your bike is out of warranty you can do anything you want.
I asked him if I update the engine using Screaming Eagle Stage III parts and Harley labor, would it still be covered under the ESP.
He said it's a gray area and would depend if the dealer wanted to "look the other way".
I guess the official answer is no with a wink.
I asked if Harley was planning on certifying different year Trikes with different engines and he said probably not, if someone wants a 114, Harley wants them to buy a new bike and not just upgrade the engine.
I talked to the dealer about a Stage III upgrade and it would be around $5200 parts and labor, guess I'll keep the 107.
Thanks for the replies
Jon
[QUOTE=boeing247;700640]I talked to a Harley rep and he gave me the story.
The EPA certification is model/engine/year specific.
The 2017 w/the 107 is certified with EPA.
The 2018 with the same engine and the same bike requires a separate certification.
The 2019 with the 114 on essentially the same bike requires a separate certification, and on and on.
Even though the 114 is used on the 2019, since there is no certification for it's use on the 2017, Harley won't sell the engine or the upgrade while the bike is covered under the factory warranty.
Of course, if your bike is out of warranty you can do anything you want.
I asked him if I update the engine using Screaming Eagle Stage III parts and Harley labor, would it still be covered under the ESP.
He said it's a gray area and would depend if the dealer wanted to "look the other way".
I guess the official answer is no with a wink.
I asked if Harley was planning on certifying different year Trikes with different engines and he said probably not, if someone wants a 114, Harley wants them to buy a new bike and not just upgrade the engine.
I talked to the dealer about a Stage III upgrade and it would be around $5200 parts and labor, guess I'll keep the 107.
Thanks for the replies
Jon[/QUOTE]
Your dealer was 100% right on and honest with you. His price for the upgrade was reasonable also. Good luck. If I were going to go thru all that and not worry about a warrantee then I would look at the 120ST if it would go into your bike. With an engine swap and what you can sell the take out engine for you would be in the same price area and a really nice motor. Just a thought
Try looking at the Fuel Moto website, they have listings for turnkey operations. Parts, labor, tuning etc. I believe they would be a better route, if you don’t care about your warranty. I believe they make a 124 low compression, 10.75 kit. Talk it over with Jamie. Good luck.
Jon, thanks for the verification. Regarding ESP coverage if you make the mods. While the dealer may not report that you have to ESP should you have a significant enough claim ESP will no doubt send a field rep to the dealer to verify before approval for repairs. That has happened to me more than once. Fortunately it was not as easy to spot mods and ESP was not as hard nosed about it. I've heard and read that ESP has really cracked down in an effort to reduce their repair expenditures. This is verified by a dealer who also pointed out how much cost of buying ESP coverage has increased the last few years.
Any one looking to add a Screamin’ Eagle 120ST crate engine ($5,695), if doable, must also get the extras HD requires. That's $159.95 for the Screaming Eagle 58mm High-Flow Air Cleaner and $1,299.95 for the Screamin’ Eagle High Flow Exhaust System. So parts cost alone will be $7,154.90, even more out the door with tax and labor.
Looks like if buyers want the one year engine warranty, they'll have to pony up for the HD mandatory add ons. Definately wont be a cheep upgrade, especially if warranty only available for dealer installs.
Not sure what the big deal is here. I upgraded my 2018 Triglide to Stage III 114 and it did not cost anywhere near what has been quoted in this Thread. I am very pleased with the results. If I had waited and bought a 2019 I may have saved FEW DOLLARS...maybe not.
JUST RIDE
Gary
Stanley, IDAHO
[B]Oh just go all in and buy a Boss Hoss trike[/B]
I was in Florida in September, traded for a new Tri-Glide custom while there. Labor cost was almost double what it is here at home. The local place here has almost lost any of my business. Unfortunate because I have friends that work there and the discounts I receive. Same with my Indy buddy, grew up with him and hate to say it but I've seen to much BS come out of there. I drive 30 miles away now for service I could do myself because I'm worried about warranty. My older bikes I still do what I can do with them. Anyway long story short Florida was $200 per hour here $100 per hour labor. Parts all the same. And they give big discounts in the winter to get the business in the winter months.