Driveline problems

I was on my 2002 GW/California Sidecar trike doing 65 and started getting a small vibration. Then about 30 seconds later a violent vibration happened. The speedo went back and forth while I was pulling over. Put it in neutral and then put it back in 1st. Sounded like a thrashing machine. Terrible grinding noise. Had to call for tow to a town bout 45 miles away. I was 125 miles from home. Had to go back the next day with trailer to pick up and take home. Still makes terrible noise and wont engage trany. Can anybody guess what's wrong before I take it to a Honda dealer?

[QUOTE=wing4rod;910330]I was on my 2002 GW/California Sidecar trike doing 65 and started getting a small vibration. Then about 30 seconds later a violent vibration happened. The speedo went back and forth while I was pulling over. Put it in neutral and then put it back in 1st. Sounded like a thrashing machine. Terrible grinding noise. Had to call for tow to a town bout 45 miles away. I was 125 miles from home. Had to go back the next day with trailer to pick up and take home. Still makes terrible noise and wont engage trany. Can anybody guess what's wrong before I take it to a Honda dealer?[/QUOTE]

Welcome to Trike Talk👍👍.. Sounds like the clutch, gave up the ghost…

It sounds to me like a drive shaft failure. This is a known problem with older CSC drive shafts. The splines in the 2 piece shaft get stripped. An old fix was to weld the 2 pieces together. That works for some and may or may not be good for a long time. The permanent solution is to install a retro-drive shaft kit that CSC has available. This is not an inexpensive fix. The body has to be removed along with the big, heavy transfer case next to your differential. Do a search here on CSC drive shafts. Good luck..... Jim

:wave4:Welcome to Trike Talk Rod!!! I would agree with Jim.I'm getting ready to do mine as a preventive measure even thought it has been welded.Lots of threads here on the subject.Also unless your Honda dealer does CSC trikes they are unlikely to agree to do the work.

Rod,

Two additional thoughts; Welcome to Trike Talk! And, if you do need to invest in a new drive shaft system, you will see an improvement of 3-4 MPG from your trike. I tracked my MPG very closely for several tanks both before and after installing the new shaft. My bike went from 30 to 34 MPG on a consistent basis. Helps take a little bite out of the expense to upgrade..... Jim

[QUOTE=cScjhb;910332]It sounds to me like a drive shaft failure. This is a known problem with older CSC drive shafts. The splines in the 2 piece shaft get stripped. An old fix was to weld the 2 pieces together. That works for some and may or may not be good for a long time. The permanent solution is to install a retro-drive shaft kit that CSC has available. This is not an inexpensive fix. The body has to be removed along with the big, heavy transfer case next to your differential. Do a search here on CSC drive shafts. Good luck..... Jim[/QUOTE]

Yes, this is the best fix for the older design CSC setup.

[QUOTE=cScjhb;910346]Rod,

Two additional thoughts; Welcome to Trike Talk! And, if you do need to invest in a new drive shaft system, you will see an improvement of 3-4 MPG from your trike. I tracked my MPG very closely for several tanks both before and after installing the new shaft. My bike went from 30 to 34 MPG on a consistent basis. Helps take a little bite out of the expense to upgrade..... Jim[/QUOTE]

I missed this thread when it was first posted. Maybe I saw it but wasn't able to add to it???

But, I wanted to ask about your mpg. I know up to about 08, the speedos would read faster than actually traveling sometimes by almost 5mph faster than what you were actually traveling but the odometers we're pretty much correct. This seems to have been corrected in the 09-up. Were you using the odometer readings to calculate your mpg prior to upgrade? Or were you using a stand alone gps to track how many miles you traveled on a trip?

The reason I as is that on the GL1800's, the speed and odometer readings get determined from sensor in the rear case I believe. IIRC, the new driveshaft upgrade also comes with new rear end? The updated trike rear end may have changed out to different gearing than the original trike rear ends as well? With different gearing, that would also have an effect on the speedo and odometer readings. If the gearing cause the speedo to read a little higher than pre-upgrade, that would also mean that the odometer is also reading slightly more miles traveled than actual miles covered. This would cause you to see a higher mpg.

Not in any way trying to doubt your findings, I'm just trying to see if maybe this is the reason for your mpg increase of almost 4mpg. I know on my 07, when I had mine converted to a Viper in 2016, I believe this was the already updated rear end. My mileage pretty much stayed the same. Mine had the speedo error so I was using a Speedohealer to correct the speedo reading. I was more interested in the speedometer being correct and its pretty accurate when checking speed on my Garmin. But by correcting my speedo, my odometer now reads that I have traveled slightly less miles than I actually have. So that also means that my mpg would be lower if I calculated it by the odometer. When the conversion was done, the gearing seemed to be very close to how it was in 2 wheels and I don't remember having to change the settings on the Speedohealer.

But I'm wondering if your actual mileage stayed the same and the odometer was just reading lower before you did the upgrade. Was your speedometer showing the correct speed with the older trike rear end but faster after the update was done? This would easily explain your increase in mpg. Again, like I said, I don't doubt your findings, just curious. If California Sidecar could verify what gearing was used in the original rear end as opposed to the upgraded rear end, that might help provide an answer to my question...

[QUOTE=pwhoever;914966]I missed this thread when it was first posted. Maybe I saw it but wasn't able to add to it???

But, I wanted to ask about your mpg. I know up to about 08, the speedos would read faster than actually traveling sometimes by almost 5mph faster than what you were actually traveling but the odometers we're pretty much correct. This seems to have been corrected in the 09-up. Were you using the odometer readings to calculate your mpg prior to upgrade? Or were you using a stand alone gps to track how many miles you traveled on a trip?

The reason I as is that on the GL1800's, the speed and odometer readings get determined from sensor in the rear case I believe. IIRC, the new driveshaft upgrade also comes with new rear end? The updated trike rear end may have changed out to different gearing than the original trike rear ends as well? With different gearing, that would also have an effect on the speedo and odometer readings. If the gearing cause the speedo to read a little higher than pre-upgrade, that would also mean that the odometer is also reading slightly more miles traveled than actual miles covered. This would cause you to see a higher mpg.

Not in any way trying to doubt your findings, I'm just trying to see if maybe this is the reason for your mpg increase of almost 4mpg. I know on my 07, when I had mine converted to a Viper in 2016, I believe this was the already updated rear end. My mileage pretty much stayed the same. Mine had the speedo error so I was using a Speedohealer to correct the speedo reading. I was more interested in the speedometer being correct and its pretty accurate when checking speed on my Garmin. But by correcting my speedo, my odometer now reads that I have traveled slightly less miles than I actually have. So that also means that my mpg would be lower if I calculated it by the odometer. When the conversion was done, the gearing seemed to be very close to how it was in 2 wheels and I don't remember having to change the settings on the Speedohealer.

But I'm wondering if your actual mileage stayed the same and the odometer was just reading lower before you did the upgrade. Was your speedometer showing the correct speed with the older trike rear end but faster after the update was done? This would easily explain your increase in mpg. Again, like I said, I don't doubt your findings, just curious. If California Sidecar could verify what gearing was used in the original rear end as opposed to the upgraded rear end, that might help provide an answer to my question...[/QUOTE]

The upgraded drive shaft has nothing to do with the differential or gear ratio. My MPG were figured using the odometer both before and after the upgrade so it was an apples to apples comparison. The thing that caused the degraded MPG before was that big heavy transfer case. In neutral the bike was relatively hard to move because of the drag from all the gears. After removing the transfer case, the bike can be easily moved by hand when out of gear. I have to be careful not to just leave it in neutral when parked in my carport because a good wind could send it away!

Your trike is new enough to not have the problems from the old drive shaft systems. So all this just doesn't apply to your bike. The drive shaft upgrade for the older CSC trikes converts the old to essentially what was installed in your trike to begin with.

Hope this answers your questions..... Jim

[QUOTE=pwhoever;914966]I missed this thread when it was first posted. Maybe I saw it but wasn't able to add to it???

But, I wanted to ask about your mpg. I know up to about 08, the speedos would read faster than actually traveling sometimes by almost 5mph faster than what you were actually traveling but the odometers we're pretty much correct. This seems to have been corrected in the 09-up. Were you using the odometer readings to calculate your mpg prior to upgrade? Or were you using a stand alone gps to track how many miles you traveled on a trip?

The reason I as is that on the GL1800's, the speed and odometer readings get determined from sensor in the rear case I believe. IIRC, the new driveshaft upgrade also comes with new rear end? The updated trike rear end may have changed out to different gearing than the original trike rear ends as well? With different gearing, that would also have an effect on the speedo and odometer readings. If the gearing cause the speedo to read a little higher than pre-upgrade, that would also mean that the odometer is also reading slightly more miles traveled than actual miles covered. This would cause you to see a higher mpg.

Not in any way trying to doubt your findings, I'm just trying to see if maybe this is the reason for your mpg increase of almost 4mpg. I know on my 07, when I had mine converted to a Viper in 2016, I believe this was the already updated rear end. My mileage pretty much stayed the same. Mine had the speedo error so I was using a Speedohealer to correct the speedo reading. I was more interested in the speedometer being correct and its pretty accurate when checking speed on my Garmin. But by correcting my speedo, my odometer now reads that I have traveled slightly less miles than I actually have. So that also means that my mpg would be lower if I calculated it by the odometer. When the conversion was done, the gearing seemed to be very close to how it was in 2 wheels and I don't remember having to change the settings on the Speedohealer.

But I'm wondering if your actual mileage stayed the same and the odometer was just reading lower before you did the upgrade. Was your speedometer showing the correct speed with the older trike rear end but faster after the update was done? This would easily explain your increase in mpg. Again, like I said, I don't doubt your findings, just curious. If California Sidecar could verify what gearing was used in the original rear end as opposed to the upgraded rear end, that might help provide an answer to my question...[/QUOTE]

i believe it was the drive shaft not the rear that was replaced... which would have no affect on the gearing.. also the shaft should not have and drag on it unless it was wildly out of balance there should be no change in mpg

I plan on trying to do a write up on this but here are the parts removed.No longer having to turn this gearbox should reduce power loss through the drivetrain.I'm not finished so I can't confirm or deny mpg change.The last picture shows what you have when update is done.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]111479[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]111480[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]111481[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]111486[/ATTACH]

Looks like it's time for a new trike!

[QUOTE=Marc H;915067]I plan on trying to do a write up on this but here are the parts removed.No longer having to turn this gearbox should reduce power loss through the drivetrain.I'm not finished so I can't confirm or deny mpg change.The last picture shows what you have when update is done.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]111479[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]111480[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]111481[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]111486[/ATTACH][/QUOTE]

what trans is that?

[QUOTE=stacebg;915212]what trans is that?[/QUOTE]

That is the gearbox that was mounted on the front of the diff on the early CSC trikes with independent suspension to allow the driveshaft to run inline.It was 1:1 but the shaft gave trouble.The fix is it remove the box and replace it with a yoke and purpose built shaft.The last pic is of the installed yoke and the rest is of the old stuff.

[QUOTE=Marc H;915289]That is the gearbox that was mounted on the front of the diff on the early CSC trikes with independent suspension to allow the driveshaft to run inline.It was 1:1 but the shaft gave trouble.The fix is it remove the box and replace it with a yoke and purpose built shaft.The last pic is of the installed yoke and the rest is of the old stuff.[/QUOTE]

When I did mine we weighed the pile of parts that were remove I think the weighed 28 pounds, Its a lot less rotating weight. I dont remember any gain in mpg. it's a big job to do , It was a lot smoother to ride .

[QUOTE=Marc H;915289]That is the gearbox that was mounted on the front of the diff on the early CSC trikes with independent suspension to allow the driveshaft to run inline.It was 1:1 but the shaft gave trouble.The fix is it remove the box and replace it with a yoke and purpose built shaft.The last pic is of the installed yoke and the rest is of the old stuff.[/QUOTE]

i meant rear end

[QUOTE=stacebg;915471]i meant rear end[/QUOTE]

I have no idea. I honestly have made no effort to try to ID it.