Strange rear brake problem is Solved on 2018 GW CSC DCT

My rear brake pedal was mush and had to be pumped several times for the pedal to get hard and effectively operate the brakes. This most certainly sounded like a typical need to bleed the brakes to expel air from the system.

I took my GW to my independent mechanic who was a Honda Red Tech for years before opening his own garage. He agreed that a good bleeding was needed. He bleed the brakes and bleed the brakes and the pedal got no better. A thorough brake system inspection revealed no leaks or other problems.

I placed a call to Will at CSC to discuss my problem. Will was very helpful and as soon as I described the problem he said "stop go no further." I thought OK he sounds really sure he knows the fix to my problem. Will then explained that CSC had a number of brake calipers which were assembled with old grease. When left unused it causes the pistons to become stuck or sticky in the caliper bores. He said to remove the pads from the calipers and pump the brake pedal until the pistons traveled out of their bores and touched the rotors. I passed this on to my tech and we both had a good chuckle.

About an hour later I got a text from my tech who said "I've learned something today!" The strange fix Will passed along worked and worked well. Bottom line I now have great rears brakes. I must confess that Randy aka Papa Zook told me so! Please don't tell him I admitted he was right and I was less right. I thought this might someone else with a similar brake issue.

Bill

I'm wondering if I have the same problem. My bike sat for about 6 months unmoved until recently. When I finally got it out I had no rear brakes and basically no rear brake pedal. I don't see any leaks under the bike where the brake fluid might of leaked out; however, it was low. I'll check this out. Thanks!

Mine has been back to the dealer two times for a mushy brake pedal. At one point we even took the rear calipers off put a block of wood in the pads and bleed them with the bleeders pointing up. No better but got a lot of "orange stuff" out of both sides?? Brakes are still not optimal but seem to be working so I'm riding it. Will try this and see if it's a solution,... thanks for the post.

[QUOTE=paid4c4;827740]My rear brake pedal was mush and had to be pumped several times for the pedal to get hard and effectively operate the brakes. This most certainly sounded like a typical need to bleed the brakes to expel air from the system.

I took my GW to my independent mechanic who was a Honda Red Tech for years before opening his own garage. He agreed that a good bleeding was needed. He bleed the brakes and bleed the brakes and the pedal got no better. A thorough brake system inspection revealed no leaks or other problems.

I placed a call to Will at CSC to discuss my problem. Will was very helpful and as soon as I described the problem he said "stop go no further." I thought OK he sounds really sure he knows the fix to my problem. Will then explained that CSC had a number of brake calipers which were assembled with old grease. When left unused it causes the pistons to become stuck or sticky in the caliper bores. He said to remove the pads from the calipers and pump the brake pedal until the pistons traveled out of their bores and touched the rotors. I passed this on to my tech and we both had a good chuckle.

About an hour later I got a text from my tech who said "I've learned something today!" The strange fix Will passed along worked and worked well. Bottom line I now have great rears brakes. I must confess that Randy aka Papa Zook told me so! Please don't tell him I admitted he was right and I was less right. I thought this might someone else with a similar brake issue.

Bill[/QUOTE]

I had the same problem, did the same thing you did. Same issue as you. Called Will, gave me the same advice as he gave you about the pistons. But, I did the same thing and nothing got better. I'm stuck.

For those having this issue, I suggest that you do this test. With your trike turned off and the park brake off and sitting on a level surface, give your trike a gentle push and see if it rolls freely. If it doesn't that is a sign that the rear brake calipers may be sticking and need the above fix performed.

[QUOTE=FRR;854409]I had the same problem, did the same thing you did. Same issue as you. Called Will, gave me the same advice as he gave you about the pistons. But, I did the same thing and nothing got better. I'm stuck.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Papa Zook;854511]For those having this issue, I suggest that you do this test. With your trike turned off and the park brake off and sitting on a level surface, give your trike a gentle push and see if it rolls freely. If it doesn't that is a sign that the rear brake calipers may be sticking and need the above fix performed.[/QUOTE]

Hydraulic brake systems have never played good with foreign materials ( too much assembly lube, moisture, wrong type of brake fluid) ETC

This is why regular maintenance and up to date info like Randy has given here is a MUST read for everyone

I always tell my customers, it does not so much matter how your bike runs, it better stop good and every time or very bad JU JU comes your way JMHO

Read this post with great interest as I also have a mushy rear brake pedal on my CSC trike. I asked Will about it when my trike was back at the factory for other issues, but he said it felt pretty good. Still feels mushy to me though although the trike stops well enough.

Question: If one pushes the pistons all the way out, does that not result in brake fluid all over the caliper or am I missing something? I have never rebuilt a caliper, so I am clueless to what happens when the pistons are popped out,

but it seems to me like this would purge the system, at least that caliper, of brake fluid.

dadztoy

[QUOTE=dadztoy;855985]Read this post with great interest as I also have a mushy rear brake pedal on my CSC trike. I asked Will about it when my trike was back at the factory for other issues, but he said it felt pretty good. Still feels mushy to me though although the trike stops well enough.

Question: If one pushes the pistons all the way out, does that not result in brake fluid all over the caliper or am I missing something? I have never rebuilt a caliper, so I am clueless to what happens when the pistons are popped out,

but it seems to me like this would purge the system, at least that caliper, of brake fluid.

dadztoy[/QUOTE]

If you do it on the bike be prepared to have fluid come out as the piston/ pistons come out

If you remove the caliper from the bike you can let most of the fluid drain out of the hose mount, then use compressed air to pop the pistons out, be careful and wear eye protection

Thank you Jack, that's what I thought would happen... Guess I'll try a bleed first...

Tried this.. No difference and about never got the pistons back in

[QUOTE=Jack Klarich;855988]If you do it on the bike be prepared to have fluid come out as the piston/ pistons come out

If you remove the caliper from the bike you can let most of the fluid drain out of the hose mount, then use compressed air to pop the pistons out, be careful and wear eye protection[/QUOTE]

With this procedure, which CSC researched and developed to solve the soft brake issue, you do not remove the brake lines, bleed the brakes before or after the procedure or do any anything that causes any loss of brake fluid. You are simply removing the brake pads, pumping the rear brake pedal until the pistons are fully extended against the rotors, then compressing the 4 brake caliper pistons until they are fully 100% retracted, then reinstalling the pads.

I have done this on two Goldwing DCT Encore trikes I built and it cured the soft brakes on both. The pistons will resist being fully retracted and make you think they will not seat, but they will. I used a large flat blade screwdriver to pry them into fully retracted position.

[QUOTE=Papa Zook;859019]With this procedure which CSC developed to some the soft brake issue, you do not remove the brake lines, bleed the brakes before or after the procedure or do any anything that causes any loss of brake fluid. You are simply dismounting the caliper, removing the brake pads, compressing the 4 brake caliper pistons until they are fully 100% retracted, then reinstalling the pads and remounting the calipers.

I have done this on two Goldwing DCT Encore trikes I built and it cured the soft brakes on both. The pistons will resist being fully retracted and make you think they will not seat, but they will. I used a large flat blade screwdriver to pry them into fully retracted position.[/QUOTE]

Very good info, I clean the pistons as good as possible before pushing them in so as not to let any debris follow them in

It can be a tedious chore on some calipers, but if done will help improve braking also

If you are careful you can roll down the protective outer piston dust shield exposing the piston, you can then clean debris before pushing pistons in

[QUOTE=Jack Klarich;859030]Very good info, I clean the pistons as good as possible before pushing them in so as not to let any debris follow them in

It can be a tedious chore on some calipers, but if done will help improve braking also

If you are careful you can roll down the protective outer piston dust shield exposing the piston, you can then clean debris before pushing pistons in[/QUOTE]

Yes, giving them a wipe down is a good idea, but these are mounted up top directly above the disc and in such a way that you will likely find little if any debris on the pistons. They are enclosed within the rear trike body fender well and are pretty well protected from the elements.

[QUOTE=Papa Zook;859019]With this procedure, which CSC researched and developed to solve the soft brake issue, you do not remove the brake lines, bleed the brakes before or after the procedure or do any anything that causes any loss of brake fluid. You are simply dismounting the caliper, removing the brake pads, compressing the 4 brake caliper pistons until they are fully 100% retracted, then reinstalling the pads and remounting the calipers.

I have done this on two Goldwing DCT Encore trikes I built and it cured the soft brakes on both. The pistons will resist being fully retracted and make you think they will not seat, but they will. I used a large flat blade screwdriver to pry them into fully retracted position.[/QUOTE]

Really? That's it? I gotta get this done, hopefully they can fix the DCT shifting issue at the same time.

[QUOTE=Papa Zook;854511]For those having this issue, I suggest that you do this test. With your trike turned off and the park brake off and sitting on a level surface, give your trike a gentle push and see if it rolls freely. If it doesn't that is a sign that the rear brake calipers may be sticking and need the above fix performed.[/QUOTE]

Good idea.. I tried it but the brake pedal still needs to be pumped. Any other suggestions?

[QUOTE=56Elwood;859040]Really? That's it? I gotta get this done, hopefully they can fix the DCT shifting issue at the same time.[/QUOTE]

OK, just back from the dealer after having the rear brake issue and shifting problems addressed. The tech did the procedure as outlined above and now the rear brake pedal is firm with great feedback and working as it should.

He also installed the new module supplied by CSC and the trike shifts like a champ in all modes, whether shifting manually or letting the trans shift itself. Outstanding! Great job by Nault's, always take great care of me. Thanks also to Zook for all the great info :clapping:

[QUOTE=56Elwood;862885]OK, just back from the dealer after having the rear brake issue and shifting problems addressed. The tech did the procedure as outlined above and now the rear brake pedal is firm with great feedback and working as it should.

He also installed the new module supplied by CSC and the trike shifts like a champ in all modes, whether shifting manually or letting the trans shift itself. Outstanding! Great job by Nault's, always take great care of me. Thanks also to Zook for all the great info :clapping:[/QUOTE]

Yes, this fix does work for the issue described by CSC, and that is the grease issue.

One thing to note is that the ABS brake system on these new '18 & newer Honda Goldwings, is that this brake system is designed to utilize BOTH the front and rear brake working in unison at the same time, so do not expect to get optimal braking when using just the rear brakes alone, because you will not get sufficient braking when using just the rear brakes. You MUST use both the front and rear brakes simultaneously.

[QUOTE=56Elwood;862885]OK, just back from the dealer after having the rear brake issue and shifting problems addressed. The tech did the procedure as outlined above and now the rear brake pedal is firm with great feedback and working as it should.

He also installed the new module supplied by CSC and the trike shifts like a champ in all modes, whether shifting manually or letting the trans shift itself. Outstanding! Great job by Nault's, always take great care of me. Thanks also to Zook for all the great info :clapping:[/QUOTE]

Did your dealer re-initialize the transmission after he installed the CSC shift module? This also makes for a BIG change in the way it shifts.

[video=youtube;hSEGlX9kqOs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSEGlX9kqOs[/video]

[QUOTE=Papa Zook;862896]Did your dealer re-initialize the bike after he installed the CSC shift module?[/QUOTE]

Not sure, it was 41 degrees on the way home, seemed to shift a little "crisp" but I was leaning on it pretty hard so I really couldn't say for sure. It was not stated on the repair order that he did but I know he has done it before and so have I. Next time I ride it and get it sufficiently warmed up I will initialize it, that always makes a nice difference in how the bike shifts. Seems like need to do this every 2K to 3K miles or so.

[QUOTE=Papa Zook;862896]Did your dealer re-initialize the transmission after he installed the CSC shift module? This also makes for a BIG change in the way it shifts.[/quote]

OK, rode the trike to work this morning (23 degrees when I left the house). Stopped for gas after about 20 miles and 3 bars on the temp gauge. Initialized the trans and rode to work with the DCT as smooth as silk. Looking forward to a nice (hopefully warmer)ride home later.