Printable View
I have a Suzuki C90 Lehman Jackal Trike and cannot find out what type of drum brakes are used. I believe they used a mustang rearend but do not know the size. Any help would be appreciated. Am going on a 4000+ mile trip to Grand Canyon from Atlanta, Ga this month and need to change back brake shoes.
This is a little delayed, but I just ran across this post.
I have a Lehman kit on a Harley, but I am pretty sure the drum brake set-up is probably the same. Lehman used a "combination" of small and large ford rear end parts. They used components from both the small and large bearing rear end and the brake drum is of the 80's to 90's small-bodied ford era.
I did a self-install and my parts list says mine "were" [B]Raybestos 474RP and the Lehman PN: GB1118.
[/B]
I say "were" because I converted mine to disc. I never could keep the drums adjusted and tried to get a conversion kit from Lehman, which they had listed, but is no longer available. They told me they wanted $4,000 for a disc brake equipped rear end and I told them to go-blow and performed a conversion myself. That's why I know what they used and they tried every way possible to mix-in-match ford components to make it very hard to figure out.....but i did.
You can try to have some parts house figure out if that Raybestos part number is good. I have an entire set of drum brakes on the shelf out in my shop. I'd be happy to let you have all the stuff for a pretty good price, if you have not found any shoes by now. You could also try a Lehman dealer (if you can find one that will help you). They all suck around this part of the country and if they did not build your trike...they won't help you.
My disc way out-perform the junky drums that were on there and I did it all for around $300.
The Raybestos part number 474RP, mentioned by 1550, is the correct part number for the brake shoes.
1550, the 4000$ price you were quoted seemed a bit stiff, even to Lehman, but it was for a complete disk to disk rear end, not just brakes. As far as the Lehman Suzuki Trikes are concerned, none of them are dealer built. All of the Suzuki's are factory built at Lehman. It is unfortunate that you were treated poorly, but I am told that 'that person' is no longer employed at Lehman.
UB
Dave...my story was that I had a set of drums the pulled to one side. You know those things don't self-adjust and I have fooled with drum brakes since...well...way back. On a 4-wheel vehicle it may not be so noticeable to have one side out of adjustment, but on a trike, it could be deadly and almost was for me on one occasion. They worked fine as long as you jammed them and locked them up, but would pull under light-to-medium braking. I had a crisis and got pulled right out into oncoming traffic once, which was one time too many. Chalk it up to my inability to get them tweaked I guess. Anyway, Lehman had advertised a disk brake conversion kit on their website and most of the dealer sites as well. When I went shopping for one, nobody had any and they were not available. I had a friendly dealer up in Tennessee call the factory to see what this was all about and was told the only way I could do it was to change the entire rear-end....which is where the quoted price of $4,000 came from. I am pretty sure it had something to do with caliper mounts. I believe the original add for the conversion kit did not even show any caliper mounting brackets. I don't know what Lehman was doing when they offered the conversion, but I guess they got into a bunch of trouble...possibly a product liability issue or the fact they did not offer a bracket to mount the calipers....they seemed to be very closed-mouth about it and pulled it off the shelf, but not off the websites as an offering.
All I did was figure out what type of caliper bracket I needed and found a guy that made the brackets for drum-to-disk conversions for the hot-rod boys. I purchased a set of his brackets that bolted right up to the flange pattern on the Lehman axle housing, which is an 8.8 Ford. I did have to modify them a bit and used Tokico radial-mount calipers and it all works just fine with the stock HD master cylinder. I used a set of 1987-88 Ford T-Bird Turbo rear rotors (10-inch 4 x 108 bolt pattern) and had the inside 1/2 of the rotors turned off and down to around 8mm. A few spacers, hoses, bolts, nuts and bleeding....and I was off to the races. The calipers come off e-bay for around $30 a pair. I gave a bit less that $100 for the caliper mounting brackets and paid a machinist $37 to turn the rotors. The T-Bird rotors can be had for less that $50 a pair on sale.
The brakes are great and the pad wear is negligible after around 10,000 miles so far. If there is anybody out there that wants to make this conversion....I have the parts list and detailed instructions. The Tokico radial caliper is the ones used on the fronts of most metric crotch-rockets and is the same as the AP racing caliper...more-or-less. Pads are also plentiful and the total volume of these two opposed 4-piston calipers match the stock HD MC perfectly.
1550, I understand, and commend you for your digging up and figuring out what was needed to get the job done and obtain your desired results. Personally, I have a M/T drum brake rear, and have never had a problem adjusting them or with any pulling of one side over the other, but that is neither here nor there. I don't have a parking brake either, LOL
Anyway, part of the deal with Lehman brakes and conversions, etc. is the fact that Lehman is one of the only trike conversion kit manufacturers whose conversions are "DOT Compliant" To build and sell a conversion "kit" from drum to disk would have required Lehman to go back to the test track, instrumenting the trike, and performing all of the skid pad and stress tests for that particular conversion kit over again, making any corrections, adjustments, etc., so that the Dot Compliance standards could be maintained for that particular model conversion. It's all about product liability, something I, as a manufacturer of products, am very familiar with.
The bottom line here is that you were able to accomplish what you wanted.
Take care,
UB
I would like a copy of your list of parts for the conversion, I have a Monarch on 02 Goldwing but these will probley tranfer. My email [email]jfreelan@bellsouth.net[/email]
Thanks
Jim
Jim...I will send you some information via the e-mail address you provided.
Here is what I need for you, or anybody to fully understand though. My conversion was on a Harley Ultra Lehman Kit, which uses the same bolt pattern as a late 80's-early-90's small-bodied Ford.
Now...this certainly does not mean that the same conversion can't be done on anything with drum brakes. Some of the parts you need, as in rotors, may differ, but it's not rocket science. The hot-rod guys do this all the time and the internet is loaded with information on how folks do this all the time on automobiles and trucks.
Dave (Ultraboy) will understand this next comment and get a chuckle...(I hope), but you cannot do this with a hand-file, a bent screwdriver and a hammer. You will need to be a pretty good mechanic and may have to outsource some work...like rotor machining, but it can be done for $300-$400 if you are willing to tackle it.
I am going to send you some stuff to look at and you can let me know how I can help you.
1550, LOL, yup not rocket science, but not for the guy with three tools in his box either. On yours, did you rig a parking brake?
[QUOTE=1550vt;31428]
but you cannot do this with a hand-file, a bent screwdriver and a hammer. [/QUOTE]
Well put 1550! :yes:
NM
Ultraboy...No, I did not install a parking brake and try and do what we always did with the two-wheelers....be careful where I park it. I have not had it roll off in the river, or out of town yet, but have been more careful where I park it. I admit it is not a bad idea to have one and it can be done rather easily....just never did it.
You know the auto-type rear calipers (and maybe the TG...I don't know) have a cable arrangement to either push the caliper piston in or push a separate piston in against the rotor via a cam arrangement. Some of these brake manufacturers actually have a shoe arrangement that fits inside the rotor hat....still cable operated though. We all have our little quirts and mine is to keep things as simple as possible....no more cables and hardware than necessary. It would be very easy (relatively speaking) to install a very simple parking brake. One could plumb a line-lock in series with the brake line. Just engage the brake pedal and push the knob on the line-lock holding pressure against the calipers. You can get these things off e-bay for just a few bucks and it's just a matter of where you want to/can mount it.
I would not like to leave a line-lock engaged for like....days or weeks, but for those meal breaks and museum visits...it would work like a champ.
Now...I am going to give our buddy Wizard an attaboy here. Wizard just wraps a bungee around his brake lever to hold his. I have some very large rubber bands packed for this years trip and plan to try out his suggestion. I will just use my rubbers (man....we could go somewhere with this can't we) to wrap my front brake lever down on my grip. I have already tried it....it works!
I am sure my BIG rubbers will look much better than Wizards bungee. (Boy...I hope he is listening.)
Hey Guys the short bungee works just fine. I also do this.
It's a great idea. Sometimes we overlook the most simple solution to what we may perceive to be a complicated problem. You just never know when a big rubber will come in handy.
LOL, Big rubbers indeed! For a Trike to be "DOT Compliant" it must have a parking brake. DOT prolly wouldn't approve a rubber, LOL :no:
So....you're tellin' me the DOT could ticket me for using my rubber. I travel with two active and one retired COP as well as a regional drug enforcement task force law officer. So far....these guys have kept us out of trouble with the law and I think they plan to use rubbers too.
No, I'm only saying that in order for a Trike kit manufacturer to obtain "DOT Compliance" a parking brake must be installed (among other things) Of all the major manufacturers, there are very few that are DOT Compliant. Do they have to be totally compliant? No, not yet, but with the ever growing popularity of Trikes, big brother is bound to start sniffing around when he sees something that could generate extra revenue.
I got into this discussion at Lehman, when I said something about the GW's parking brake, being located under the right passengers floorboard. If you use it, you need ape-length arms, and your passenger needs to move his/her foot out of the way, so you can fold the pass board up to engage/release the brake. I'm sure one could get used to it, but I found it a hassle, and didn't bother with it.
Just a point of interest as I'm sure all have heard by now. The feds are fact finding on the definition of a motorcycle. Hold on for the outcome of that and how it effects our trikes.
They will find a way to screw all of us enthusiast one way or another sooner or later. I can't attribute this quote to any particular senator, but as I recall he said something like "if it moves tax it....if it stops moving, subsidize it until it moves..and then tax it again". I am glad that I have been able to enjoy a large part of my life being left alone and I hope the younger generation still finds some way to enjoy some degree of freedom that is being taken away bit-by-bit...day-by-day.
Okay...I'm sorry for turning this thread directed toward brake shoes into a political statement and that's all I'll say.
Jackal....I hope you found your brake shoes!
I want to convert the rear drum brakes on my 2007 Suzuki C90 Lehman Trike to disc brakes. I contacted Lehman and they said they do not have the parts at the factory. They suggested that I contact Wilwood to see what they have available. Would you happen to know which brake kit I would need for this year and model or are they all different? If someone has a parts list of the items I would need for this conversion I would appreciate a copy. My email is [EMAIL="stanley175@verizon.net"]stanley175@verizon.net[/EMAIL].
v/r
Wayne
I have been working almost a year on a simple replacement system for Lehman Trikes with drum brakes that is easy to install and guaranteed to fit. I have finally rounded up the parts necessary to complete this project.
It includes 11" rotors and automotive type calipers with a self contained parking brake that will easily adapt to whatever parking brake system you have. Every model is a little different so I would need to know what model you have for the necessary lines and fittings. Once installed and bled, the system offers a hard pedal and plenty of stopping capability. I initially quoted this kit at around $775.00 plus installation. Installation instructions for the kit and special instructions for the parking brake are included.
The rear axles on the shaft drive early kits are a 6.75 Ford variation with 9" Ford axles with 4 lug bolt pattern. I would need the year and model of the conversion, or a picture to supply an accurate kit.
Lee,
I have a 2007 Suzuki C90 with a Lehman Jackal trike kit installed on it. I hope this is all the information you need to try and supply mw with the right disc brake conversion kit information.
I want to thank you for all you past help with this topic and many others.
Wayne
[QUOTE=1550vt;31405]Dave...my story was that I had a set of drums the pulled to one side. You know those things don't self-adjust and I have fooled with drum brakes since...well...way back. On a 4-wheel vehicle it may not be so noticeable to have one side out of adjustment, but on a trike, it could be deadly and almost was for me on one occasion. They worked fine as long as you jammed them and locked them up, but would pull under light-to-medium braking. I had a crisis and got pulled right out into oncoming traffic once, which was one time too many. Chalk it up to my inability to get them tweaked I guess. Anyway, Lehman had advertised a disk brake conversion kit on their website and most of the dealer sites as well. When I went shopping for one, nobody had any and they were not available. I had a friendly dealer up in Tennessee call the factory to see what this was all about and was told the only way I could do it was to change the entire rear-end....which is where the quoted price of $4,000 came from. I am pretty sure it had something to do with caliper mounts. I believe the original add for the conversion kit did not even show any caliper mounting brackets. I don't know what Lehman was doing when they offered the conversion, but I guess they got into a bunch of trouble...possibly a product liability issue or the fact they did not offer a bracket to mount the calipers....they seemed to be very closed-mouth about it and pulled it off the shelf, but not off the websites as an offering.
All I did was figure out what type of caliper bracket I needed and found a guy that made the brackets for drum-to-disk conversions for the hot-rod boys. I purchased a set of his brackets that bolted right up to the flange pattern on the Lehman axle housing, which is an 8.8 Ford. I did have to modify them a bit and used Tokico radial-mount calipers and it all works just fine with the stock HD master cylinder. I used a set of 1987-88 Ford T-Bird Turbo rear rotors (10-inch 4 x 108 bolt pattern) and had the inside 1/2 of the rotors turned off and down to around 8mm. A few spacers, hoses, bolts, nuts and bleeding....and I was off to the races. The calipers come off e-bay for around $30 a pair. I gave a bit less that $100 for the caliper mounting brackets and paid a machinist $37 to turn the rotors. The T-Bird rotors can be had for less that $50 a pair on sale.
The brakes are great and the pad wear is negligible after around 10,000 miles so far. If there is anybody out there that wants to make this conversion....I have the parts list and detailed instructions. The Tokico radial caliper is the ones used on the fronts of most metric crotch-rockets and is the same as the AP racing caliper...more-or-less. Pads are also plentiful and the total volume of these two opposed 4-piston calipers match the stock HD MC perfectly.[/QUOTE]
I’m interested on your parts list to convert my drums brakes to disc brakes… will you send it to me please?
[QUOTE=Jroad777;930645]I’m interested on your parts list to convert my drums brakes to disc brakes… will you send it to me please?[/QUOTE]
Joe.. Welcome to Trike Talk 👍👍..;And just to let you know the post you are referring to is 13 years old…Hopefully someone else will see this and have some insight for you…👍