Got metal in trany fluid 400 miles after reverse install. Comments?
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Got metal in trany fluid 400 miles after reverse install. Comments?
Welcome to Trike-Talk Ed....:wave4:Can you give us a little more info ....Model Year...? I had a Mototrike reverse put in my 2011 Tri-Glide....And after they installed it and test road it they drained the tranny and put new fluid in it... Just to be safe...
[QUOTE=ecarbone51;550845]Got metal in trany fluid 400 miles after reverse install. Comments?[/QUOTE]
It is common to see small amounts of fine metal in tranny oil as there is no filter, only a magnet on the drain plug to collect any metal particles, this is true even for brand new bikes. (Google metal in Harley transmission oil) It may or may not have anything to do with the Champion reverse gear set being installed.
Give us more info and I can better give you my opinion, which will be worth exactly what you are paying for it. :)
1) Describe 'metal'. How many and how large are the particles? Is it dust, tiny shavings, chunks?
2) Was the fluid changed soon after the reverse install? (should be within 1K miles)
3) What year and model is your bike/trike?
4) Is it a cable or hydraulic transmission.
5) What trans oil are you running or have been running?
6) Have there been any shifting issues or noises?
7) Is it hard to find neutral?
8) Has the clutch ever been adjusted, if so when and by who?
9) Who did the install and have they installed Champion reverse gear sets before?
Bike is a 99 FLH with 19K miles. Had recent Hannigan kit installed by clueless builder. Build completed in September and I have been fixing all their screw ups since. With less than 500 miles on the build (and reverse install), found that the bike would get stuck in first gear when parking it on a non level surface, shutting off motor and let the trany keep the bike from rolling. (No E-brake in this kit)
Only way to get it out of 1st was to start it then creep it forward about a foot before you could get it out of first. Clutch is set correctly. Seams to shift fine after its moving. Only happens when parking on a non level surface. Drained the fluid and the magnetic plug was LOADED with small chunks and steel mud. Fluid is loaded with dust and a lot of chunks in the bottom of drain pan.
The builders were real cobb artists and completely incompetent. Naturally Im thinking they may have messed up the reverse install. I'm thinking side to side play in the trany gear shafts could cause the gear bind. If they installed the reverse bearings/gears wrong it could cause this? Factory defective bearings maybe? Coincidence tranny going bad ?
[SIZE=3]Ed, I see this is your first post since joining, sorry it had to be for a problem.
I would suggest another short trans fluid change in another 500 miles.[/SIZE][FONT=sans-serif][SIZE=3]
If there is no unusual noises it should be OK for the next interval[/SIZE]
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[SIZE=3]Follow the user instruction sheet provided with the reverse gear for operating reverse.
As far as getting stuck in gear on an incline, that is generally normal. The pressure of loading of 1st gear does not allow the dawgs in the transmission to disengage from the gear. Even 2 wheel riders rock their bikes back and forth to disengage a gear for neutral.
I don't know what transmission gear oil you are using but you should stay away from motor oil for the transmission.:Shrug:
I know I will get heat over that statement but gear oil is designed for the transmission and engine oil is designed for the engine.:nonono: Amsoil 75/90 is my choice.:p
[/SIZE]
[FONT=sans-serif]WARNING! USE ON[/FONT][FONT=sans-serif]LY IN NEUTRAL [/FONT]
[FONT=sans-serif]Clutch must be engaged and the transmission in neutral when shifting in and out of reverse. [/FONT]
[FONT=sans-serif]To engage reverse:[/FONT]
[FONT=sans-serif][/FONT][FONT=sans-serif][/FONT][FONT=sans-serif]Start Motorcycle. [/FONT]
[FONT=sans-serif][/FONT][FONT=sans-serif]Place bike in neutral. [/FONT]
[FONT=sans-serif](See Note A below)[/FONT]
[FONT=sans-serif][/FONT][FONT=sans-serif]Engage clutch. [/FONT][FONT=sans-serif][/FONT][FONT=sans-serif]
Shift reverse handle in and upward to select [/FONT][FONT=sans-serif]reverse. [/FONT]
[FONT=sans-serif][/FONT][FONT=sans-serif]Feather clutch and throttle to reverse motorcycle. [/FONT]
[FONT=sans-serif](See Note B below)[/FONT]
[FONT=sans-serif]To disengage: [/FONT]
[FONT=sans-serif][/FONT][FONT=sans-serif]Engage clutch [/FONT]
[FONT=sans-serif][/FONT][FONT=sans-serif]Shift handle in and down to deselect reverse [/FONT]
[FONT=sans-serif]NOTE: [/FONT]
[FONT=sans-serif]A. It is good practice to first engage first gear to stop the gearbox from spinning (This will prevent [/FONT][FONT=sans-serif]the “grinding” noise when reverse gear is engaged) and then place the bike in neutral and [/FONT][FONT=sans-serif]immediately engage reverse.[/FONT]
[FONT=sans-serif]B. Do not let the bike “free wheel” backwards while in reverse gear and the clutch disengaged (i.e [/FONT][FONT=sans-serif]when rolling down a slope when in reverse) [/FONT][FONT=sans-serif]– The reverse gear will automatically try to [/FONT][FONT=sans-serif]disengage and will result in a “grinding” sound. To prevent this – Always engage the clutch [/FONT][FONT=sans-serif]immediately after the reverse action is completed. [/FONT]
[FONT=sans-serif]WARNING![/FONT]
[FONT=sans-serif]Reverse gear is intended for light duty use onl[/FONT][FONT=sans-serif]y. Do not drive for long periods in reverse. [/FONT]
[FONT=sans-serif]WARNING![/FONT]
[FONT=sans-serif]Any attempt to modify this pr[/FONT][FONT=sans-serif]oduct without written permission fr[/FONT][FONT=sans-serif]om the manufacturer will void the [/FONT][FONT=sans-serif]warranty and may cause damage to vehicle and injury to persons. [/FONT]
This is one of the first complaints about a Hannigan installer I've read!
Have you contacted Hannigan?? Phone 270.753.4256
Would be interested in knowing what "fixes" you've had to make??
If you haven't already, I'd also suggest a fluid change and then see if there is metal in the fluid again after about a thousand miles!
Statement about using "motor" oil in transmission may be valid, depending on what is used. However, there are several formulated to use in all three holes in a Harley! One of the best, IMHO. is Mobile 1 4T for V-twins.
Yes, very difficult to find neutral if you parked on a hill and locked it in low gear! Pull the clutch in and rock the trike some.
I make it a point never to park on a hill!
Ed I would venture to say that the reverse installer did not do a good job of keeping the metal out of the oil when they drilled the end of the shafts to install the reverse kit. Like Jim says put some gear oil in it and do a change again in 500 miles. There will still be some metal but it should be less. Drilling of the shafts does produce a lot of shavings and the instructions advise to keep them out of the trans.
To answer some questions: Had a long conversation with Hannigan because the builder tried to blame some of the issues on them. Hannigan was helpful in confirming my suspicions that the builder was FOS. Some of the issues were stripped bolts/nuts, pinched wiring, over tightened twisted screws, crushed air cleaner components due to over tightening, taillights falling out, stripped 2 of the 3 fairing inserts, incorrect body mounting enough to make using a stock seat frame impossible etc etc. However, the damage to the build was done and I had to except the trike as complete due to contracted shipping arrangements. They had 4 full months to deliver the bike and used all but 4 days.
As far as parking the bike on a level surface, well, that is just not practical unless I wanted to just leave it in my garage. The Hannigan does not have a parking brake.
This reverse kit is not the one that requires drilling to attach it.
Like I said, the trans oil w/less than 500 miles looks like one of the newer high density metal flake paint jobs but with tiny particles. It sparkles in the sunlight and so metallic it looks light grey in color. The multitude of small chunks don't worry me as much. They could very well be the newness of the reverse.
My worry is that the reverse is not installed properly with the bearings not set with the proper clearances and allowing the trany shafts not being square to each other causing the binding.
[QUOTE=ecarbone51;551284]
My worry is that the reverse is not installed properly with the bearings not set with the proper clearances and allowing the trany shafts not being square to each other causing the binding.[/QUOTE]
An easy way to tell if it is aligned properly is remove the derby cover and place a screwdriver or small pry-bar between clutch assembly and the primary cover. Try to push clutch assembly inward. Then pull the clutch lever and see if there is any movement. The main-shaft of the transmission will get out of alignment with the counter-shaft if reverse gears are not properly installed and the main-shaft will float in and out. If there is more than .015 - .020 movement gears could collide.
might try jacking it up and spinning trans in reverse gear w clutch disengaged... noise an grinding u know what it is but if no noise doesnt for sure mean its not a clearance issue... doesnt seem there would be a chance to get the gears misaligned except if there are supposed to be shims for end play... no idea if there should be
just tossing it out there
[QUOTE=ecarbone51;551284]
This reverse kit is not the one that requires drilling to attach it.
[/QUOTE]
Ed, I am assuming that it was a Champion or Motortrike type reverse gear for a 5 speed .... is that correct ???