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[QUOTE=ROAD DOG;824057]I was at a Harley dealer today talking with the parts manager getting a new oil filter, told him I was putting on a oil filter relocation kit , He laughed asked were it mounted told him under the passenger foot board he said come look at this , go to the shop there sits a 2020 black tri with no motor in it and it has no warrantee Harley said the aftermarket oil filter relocation kit and the oil cooler was to much for the little heart to handle.
Asked him who owned it or were it was from, would not answer me ? Im going let mine kit sit on the bench for a while see where this goes ?[/QUOTE]
I completely respect and understand you're wanting to wait and see. Last thing anyone wants to do to their ride is install something that may hurt it.
The parts manager you referenced is either ignorant of how Harley engines work (and how the oil filter and oil cooler work) or is being disingenuous.
We would never make a part available that jeopardizes someone's engine, or overtaxes the oil pump.
Of course, most folks do not know us, and many folks may think we are just trying to sell parts and will say anything...or maybe we are ignorant. I understand that too.
We regularly hear from employees at dealerships that have not the foggiest idea what they are talking about, BUT they have customers that trust them implicitly.
We hear from them because they call us and and say this or that part cannot be installed, or ask us how to install this or that, having never read the instructions that came with the part. We then proceed to read the instructions to them so they can finish their installation. It is difficult to communicate, or understand, the depth of incompetence at so many dealerships.
And while on the subject, it is not just HD dealerships. Last week Mary took her truck in to one of the largest Ford Dealerships in the mid-south for a regular service. I copied the page from the manual where it says part of the service is to lube the grease fittings on the front axle u-joints, and asked her to make sure they did that too.
They explained to her that there are no zerk (grease) fittings, everything is sealed. She asked them to please look, she was sure there were (because I assured her there were) and also the manual says there are. They spent 5 minutes making her feel stupid for not believing them. She left without them doing it.
I got home, crawled under the truck, and in 5 seconds had my hand on the "non-existent" grease fitting.
Anyway, sorry for the tangent, but it illustrates the unfathomable incompetence and arrogance of many employees at many dealerships.
I completely understand being very cautious, and would never try and convince anyone to do something with their ride that they are not 100% comfortable with.
I do want to assure you that the parts, properly installed, will not damage or overtax any engine they are made for....we simply would not do that.
Kevin
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Kevin, I agree with your standing behind ALL of your (tested in house) products and I also think HD is missing a bigger problem with the oil pumps. The gear rotor pump is a very good pump, however what I think HD is missing is the pumps cannot keep up with the air pressures in the crank cases. The pump by itself cannot overcome the air and oil at the same time. This is creating a vacuum that will lead to sumping. This is JMO, what I cannot still figure out is why do not ALL M8 engines sump? I also believe the head breathers are not able to remove the pressure in the cases fully and need to be addressed by HD
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[QUOTE=Jack Klarich;824162]Kevin, I agree with your standing behind ALL of your (tested in house) products and I also think HD is missing a bigger problem with the oil pumps. The gear rotor pump is a very good pump, however what I think HD is missing is the pumps cannot keep up with the air pressures in the crank cases. The pump by itself cannot overcome the air and oil at the same time. This is creating a vacuum that will lead to sumping. This is JMO, what I cannot still figure out is why do not ALL M8 engines sump? I also believe the head breathers are not able to remove the pressure in the cases fully and need to be addressed by HD[/QUOTE]
Thanks Jack.
Yes, the M8's have had random oil pump problems. These problems occur stock & with various mods. The mods are not the problem, it is the oil pump. If it is going to have a problem it will have it, regardless of the mods. The problems do seem to be less frequent in later years, but it is not completely resolved. What are they on now...like the 8th revision of the oil pump on the M8's?
On the Twin Cams there were oil pump issues, but not catastrophic like on the M8's. On the Twin Cams the scavenging did not work so well on some bikes (resulting in excessive blow-by), but that was because of the crank being slightly out of round. The pumps themselves were fine, unless they were paired with a crank that was too far out of round.
I do not know if that is the issue on the M8's or not...have not researched it.
Kevin
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[QUOTE=DK Custom Products;824194]Thanks Jack.
Yes, the M8's have had random oil pump problems. These problems occur stock & with various mods. The mods are not the problem, it is the oil pump. If it is going to have a problem it will have it, regardless of the mods. The problems do seem to be less frequent in later years, but it is not completely resolved. What are they on now...like the 8th revision of the oil pump on the M8's?
On the Twin Cams there were oil pump issues, but not catastrophic like on the M8's. On the Twin Cams the scavenging did not work so well on some bikes (resulting in excessive blow-by), but that was because of the crank being slightly out of round. The pumps themselves were fine, unless they were paired with a crank that was too far out of round.
I do not know if that is the issue on the M8's or not...have not researched it.
Kevin[/QUOTE]
The problem is Harley see's the aftermarket oil cooler and 8 feet of hose now they cancell the warranty ,like any aftermarket motor part they get out of warranting that motor that has known problem's ? they paid the fine to the E P A, but in the long run Harley is making out better by consumer's changing exhaust cutting out cat's changing air filter's cam's what ever that make's there bike bike non E PA compliant Harley tell's the customer we have to cancell your warranty because you altered the emission on your bike with aftermarket part's , They say it's not us the E P A make's us do it or we get fined again . Buy harley part's have the dealer install or were sorry your warranty is cancelled WIN WIN WIN for Harley
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[QUOTE=DK Custom Products;824151]I completely respect and understand you're wanting to wait and see. Last thing anyone wants to do to their ride is install something that may hurt it.
The parts manager you referenced is either ignorant of how Harley engines work (and how the oil filter and oil cooler work) or is being disingenuous. [/QUOTE]
What he said was go to Macdonalds buy a thick milkshake cut the straw down to 2" suck on it you will get milkshake instantly, Get 10 straw's = " 8' of oil line and cooler" tape them together you will suck your eye ball's out of your head before you get milkshake ? Funny Guy It does make sence to me that could cause problem's with a allready weak oil system ?
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[QUOTE=ROAD DOG;824209]The problem is Harley see's the aftermarket oil cooler and 8 feet of hose now they cancell the warranty ,like any aftermarket motor part they get out of warranting that motor that has known problem's ? they paid the fine to the E P A, but in the long run Harley is making out better by consumer's changing exhaust cutting out cat's changing air filter's cam's what ever that make's there bike bike non E PA compliant Harley tell's the customer we have to cancell your warranty because you altered the emission on your bike with aftermarket part's , They say it's not us the E P A make's us do it or we get fined again . Buy harley part's have the dealer install or were sorry your warranty is cancelled WIN WIN WIN for Harley[/QUOTE]
Devils Advocate Here........And Hypothetically speaking.......You have a Stock Tri-Glide in perfect condition and sell it to someone, And to sweeten the deal give the buyer a 30 day Guarantee...........And then the buyer 10 days later blows the engine and wants you to pay for a new engine......And upon looking at the Trike you find he the buyer added all those after market parts that you mentioned to the perfectly stock Trike you sold to him ..... ....What would you say to the buyer....????
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[QUOTE=rhino 2;824216]Devils Advocate Here........And Hypothetically speaking.......You have a Stock Tri-Glide in perfect condition and sell it to someone, And to sweeten the deal give the buyer a 30 day Guarantee...........And then the buyer 10 days later blows the engine and wants you to pay for a new engine......And upon looking at the Trike you find he the buyer added all those after market parts that you mentioned to the perfectly stock Trike you sold to him ..... ....What would you say to the buyer....????[/QUOTE]
That's simple F U
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[QUOTE=ROAD DOG;824209]The problem is Harley see's the aftermarket oil cooler and 8 feet of hose now they cancell the warranty ,like any aftermarket motor part they get out of warranting that motor that has known problem's ? they paid the fine to the E P A, but in the long run Harley is making out better by consumer's changing exhaust cutting out cat's changing air filter's cam's what ever that make's there bike bike non E PA compliant Harley tell's the customer we have to cancell your warranty because you altered the emission on your bike with aftermarket part's , They say it's not us the E P A make's us do it or we get fined again . Buy harley part's have the dealer install or were sorry your warranty is cancelled WIN WIN WIN for Harley[/QUOTE]
Dead on correct! The EPA fine was money well spent by Harley to bypass the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act that was put in place to protect the consumer.
Kevin
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[QUOTE=ROAD DOG;824215][QUOTE=DK Custom Products;824151]I completely respect and understand you're wanting to wait and see. Last thing anyone wants to do to their ride is install something that may hurt it.
The parts manager you referenced is either ignorant of how Harley engines work (and how the oil filter and oil cooler work) or is being disingenuous.
What he said was go to Macdonalds buy a thick milkshake cut the straw down to 2" suck on it you will get milkshake instantly, Get 10 straw's = " 8' of oil line and cooler" tape them together you will suck your eye ball's out of your head before you get milkshake ? Funny Guy It doe's make cence to me that could cause problem's with a allready weak oil system ?[/QUOTE]
Yeah, seems right on the surface. But that is not how it works. (milkshake, oil, sucking, pushing, etc.)
On top of that, there are tens of thousands of M8's running around with no oil pump problems, tens of thousands of which have oil coolers from the factory(see every M8 Softail oil cooler and oil cooler lines) and thousands of which have oil filter relocations...with zero problems.
The problem is the random oil pump that is somehow defective and does not pump correctly, regardless of any mods.
But, again, I completely understand holding off.
I rode an M8 Tri-Glide the day they were released, in 2016. I really like that engine. But I held off on getting one for almost 3 years. Did not want to take the chance on getting one that might have a problem (as so many did in the first couple of years).
[video=youtube;AMPH3r2uaPU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMPH3r2uaPU[/video]
Kevin
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Here's a video of a test ride on the first M8 Street Glide to arrive in the Memphis area. Rode this before we rode the M8 Tri Glide a month later.
Note how long all the oil hoses are that feed and return oil to the heads and the oil cooler.
[video=youtube;pM4FxGgIVXo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pM4FxGgIVXo[/video]
Kevin