Help!!! TOO MUCH TRAIL!!

Ghostrider1 · Nov 18, 2019

Hey Guys,

Can use your help I used the calculator that SnuSnu posted in the tech file for trail and have figured out I have a extreme amount of trail. The measurement I have come up with is approximately 10.5 " of trail. What if any easy fix is there for this problem. Any help will be appreciated.

irondad01 · Nov 19, 2019

Hi, I don't know of an easy way to reduce your trail with the rake you have and the springer front end. To get down to around 2" of trail you would have to extend the bottom links about 8 1/2". That would make them pretty flimsy and would give you so much leverage that the springs would be way too soft.

It might be the angle of the picture, but it almost looks like you have raked trees on your springer. When you measured did you go down through the center of the frame neck and not the center of the fork? The frame neck is where you should check. If it has raked trees that would move the trail in the direction you want.

I think you might have to either go with a different style front end or reduce the rake some. But it looks cool with the long rake. Have you ridden it the way it is? Is it hard steering or does it want to flop side to side?

Burnerboy · Nov 19, 2019

Don't know much about tail, BUT what I can tell you, is "THAT" is one cool azz lQQking machine, you have there!!!

Ghostrider1 · Nov 19, 2019

Thanks for the fast response

irondad01 said:
Hi, I don't know of an easy way to reduce your trail with the rake you have and the springer front end. To get down to around 2" of trail you would have to extend the bottom links about 8 1/2". That would make them pretty flimsy and would give you so much leverage that the springs would be way too soft.

It might be the angle of the picture, but it almost looks like you have raked trees on your springer. When you measured did you go down through the center of the frame neck and not the center of the fork? The frame neck is where you should check. If it has raked trees that would move the trail in the direction you want.

I think you might have to either go with a different style front end or reduce the rake some. But it looks cool with the long rake. Have you ridden it the way it is? Is it hard steering or does it want to flop side to side?

I have not rode it yet it was not drive-able when I got it.t may just try it first and see what happens.

LarryA · Nov 19, 2019

using your pic extending a line parallel to the fork tubes and set back to your neck pivot.....it looks like the trail more like 6in. which may be ok with a light front end, take a ride and see..nice looking trike ps why the underlining?

DeathBySnuSnu · Nov 19, 2019

Several things to look at and get a feel for right now before riding it.

Stand straddle of it. Not standing or sitting on it but standing on ground or somehow not being supported by the trike.

Now with a stiff neck stare at the yoke bearing cup area. Lock your eyes on it and turn the handle bars lock to lock. Look for how far the neck bearing area moves side to side.....ignore the forks/handle bars movement.

If the neck bearing area moves a lot.....that indicates lots of trail.

Next.....not riding/moving....just sitting there.....do the handlebars slam over to full lock? This also indicates lots of trail.

The good news is that the front end is light so it will be rideable. It will drive down the highway fine. If it had some weight on the front it would take gorilla arms to turn it at speed.

The bad parts......it will probably head shake some while decelerating (keep a stiff arm on it).

And it will want to slam hard to full lock while backing up. Will probably take both stiff arms to hold the bars while reversing.

Edit:

This is why a leading link style front is so popular for trikes.

stacebg · Nov 20, 2019

irondad01 said:
Hi, I don't know of an easy way to reduce your trail with the rake you have and the springer front end. To get down to around 2" of trail you would have to extend the bottom links about 8 1/2". That would make them pretty flimsy and would give you so much leverage that the springs would be way too soft.

probably not the best way to go but you could tie the links together with a pc of pipe or square tube behind the wheel

then a stiffer shock and or move the lower mount of the shock out forward a ways

grandpanystrom61 · Nov 21, 2019

It may handle just fine for you, as it was said "strong arming it" will be needed.

I do see the lower tree being raked, meaning it sets the end of the forks much further forward creating a larger trail.

Some do this because they do not want to change the Neck rake angle.

Others do this because it moves the front wheel forward away from the frame and the feel they get the turning radius they want.

Increased trail can cause a higher flop factor, at high speeds this is death, so when I did my front end I made sure that the flop factor did not get out of hand. Of course mine is all on paper still, soon I hope to prove myself wrong or right...….. you never want to have a negative trail number, some like 0" and others go from 1" to 2 1/2" on trikes from what gathered.

stacebg · Nov 21, 2019

grandpanystrom61 said:
It may handle just fine for you, as it was said "strong arming it" will be needed.

I do see the lower tree being raked, meaning it sets the end of the forks much further forward creating a larger trail.

Some do this because they do not want to change the Neck rake angle.

Others do this because it moves the front wheel forward away from the frame and the feel they get the turning radius they want.

Increased trail can cause a higher flop factor, at high speeds this is death, so when I did my front end I made sure that the flop factor did not get out of hand. Of course mine is all on paper still, soon I hope to prove myself wrong or right...….. you never want to have a negative trail number, some like 0" and others go from 1" to 2 1/2" on trikes from what gathered.

from my experience no one like 0" trail (death trap)

increased trail may cause flop sitting still and slowing down but at speed it wants to go straight so no wiggle or flop

grandpanystrom61 · Nov 22, 2019

The raked trees are for sure giving you a extend trail number, so figure out how a straight set of trees would work for you, might be the quickest and easiest way to fix the problem, if one does exsist for you once it is running down the road.

Some times all handles fine for the rider, but for me I am a small person, so strong arming the steering of the bike is not what I want to do. Dealing with a high flop factor is another thing I did not want to deal with.

Some times a set of trees need to be custom made for what the rider wants. I have seen them with down tubes in line with the neck tube, a little forward of that, and some like Harley's are 2 5/16" offset.

A lot of skilled helpful individuals on this site, so if you do need the help you will find it here.

stacebg · Nov 22, 2019

grandpanystrom61 said:
The raked trees are for sure giving you a extend trail number, so figure out how a straight set of trees would work for you, might be the quickest and easiest way to fix the problem, if one does exsist for you once it is running down the road.

in this case i dont think the tree are rakes..

"raked trees are for sure giving you a extend trail number, " you will find just the opposite is true... raked tree reduce the trail

grandpanystrom61 · Nov 22, 2019

stacebg said:
in this case i dont think the tree are rakes..

"raked trees are for sure giving you a extend trail number, " you will find just the opposite is true... raked tree reduce the trail

Okay, guess I really looked at it wrong this AM, or got my self twisted up assbackwards….. not a good thing at all.

Changing front end design to a leading link is probably a good idea if there are issues.

Broken_Mold · Feb 22, 2021

What did the OP find out? Was the trike ridden yet? If ridden was it found that rake and/or trail was acceptable or did it need to be changed?

Ghostrider1 · Aug 29, 2021

Thanks to all for your input with this situation. I have since somewhat finished the beast and have taken it on a few runs around town. It handles very well and there is a slight wobble but I have figured it out to be the wrong bearings in the triple tree. I have to disassemble and measure them and go to the bearing shop. But here are a few pics of the beast.

Thanks again Rich

Zammy · Aug 30, 2021

Looks pretty cool Richard.

Help!!! TOO MUCH TRAIL!!

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