My Poor Leaning Lehman

[Dwight]

Oh man, I forgot about those big tires Lehman supplied! I was never happy with those huge tires Lehman put on their kits. I know they look good, but they are sure a PITA! I alway figured if you had a flat with one of those, the thing to do was either load it up or ride it somewhere they had a lift because your never going to be able to change the tire along side of the road. Something else nobody thinks about but those huge tires have a super small loading per square inch of surface. What's the problem, ya say? Add in a little rain and any puddles on the road will give a whole new meaning to the pucker factor! I found this out personally and I was riding a Hannigan/Honda with normal size tires. Hit a big puddle on 13 south out of Clinton MO at about 60mph and had the backend nearly come all the way around because of hydroplaning! (Yeah, I know - slow down) There isn't enough load on these tires to maintain much grip in the rain or on wet roads.
Sorry, I got a little off topic. Don't forget to check that upper mount. Keep us informed how things are working out.

Dwight

[1550vt]

I discovered "hydroplane" all over again last week on I-81 just north of Roanoke. In a driving rainstorm, I almost swapped-ends at around 50 mph.
Yep....those tires suck and I need to get them off. I have discovered the best way to remove them is to let the air out and yes....it has to be about kneee-high off the ground. I got plenty of practice doing a disc brake conversion, but it would be just about impossible on the side of the road.

I am shopping for some 16-inch wheels. It's a 4 x 108mm bolt pattern....as in Mustaing or T-Bird TC. I am convinced a tire with a different aspect ratio that reduces the sidewall height will do wonders for the cornering. I have done everything except weld all the suspension components shut and the tires are about the only remaining possiblity to cure my ills. It's a bit "uncomfortabe" to tool around with 32 pounds of air in these things. Lehman recommended 18-24, but that is a recipe for dissaster on mountain roads.

Do you know if 4 x 108 (4.25) is the current bolt pattern?

[1550vt]

Oh..............Dwight............I did go over that top mount again and it looks good. I installed this kit and remember going through the process of adding all the componets to make that connection stronger and installing the link Lehman provided as well. I think that's all okay.

[Dwight]

Too long ago for me to remember 1550! We quit installing Lehman at least 3 years ago, switched to Motor Trike. Didn't really have a quality problem, but had a real "lack of communication" problem.

Dwight

[oleman69]

Considering that we are talking about a rubber mounted engine/tranny setup you may want to check the weld on the top motor bracket to frame to make sure not flexing there. Have seen a couple of strokers crack there good luck

[1550vt]

I plan to take another look at that top mounting system there oleman. After me-and-the-friend built this trike, he never had any complaints, but got interested in bigger toys....as in Prevost busses. It was parked for three years just after he had the stage II kit installed, which required a top-end tear down and that top link had to come off for that. I have sinced looked at it, but I plan to revist that. If that link has been maladjusted, it will "twist" the frame. I have called myself making sure the frame is level to the ground, but it's a bit difficult with the body-and-all on there. I have fixed most of my problems with replacement of that front link. It's hard to explain just what it looked like and what it was doing, but it would let the frame "pop" over to the left in a RH turn with steering input. I could feel that "pop". Not much....but a few thousandth's is all it takes. In the LH turns, that link could not move as the motor mount bolt was jam-up against the inside of the joint. The rubber in the heim joint was worn out in this part of the joint. That's why LH turns were no problem.....the ball in the link could not move.

These forums are great for this sort of thing and I eventually got to a couple of guys (you and Dwight) that had built these things. Lehman was absouletely no help at all as well as none of the "dealers" I went to. I think with all of your help, and I mean everyone that posted here, I have worked it down to what the problem was/is. These stabilizer links are a real sore-spot and they will require some routine maintenance. You don't just bolt 'em on and forget them. I also think the tire/wheel selection on these early models is trash. The sidewall flex is just too sloppy and a 16-inch wheel and tire combination should also result in better handling.

Thanks to ALL!

[ultraboy]

1550, I have read this with some interest, and thought about it a bit. It seems that you and others here have pretty much covered everything. I really don't have anything that comes to mind, however, at this point, I think I might try brute force, and just remove the body, and observe what is going on under actual conditions. Maybe have someone with a camera in a chase vehicle... Hmmm, just rambling here tho....

[1550vt]

I appreciate the input Dave. Actually, I have tried a modified version of that. I had the guys in back make some observations about what the trike was doing in these curves and all I could ever gather was that it "looked" like it may be leaning. But...that is not very scientific to say the least. I don't think anything is bent, warped or broken now. The "other Dave" (reksul) suggested that I build some solid braces and replace the shocks for a test....no idea is a stupid idea and if I had not made some progress at this point, that would be my next step. I would have loved to hear from someone currently running these 15-inch rims and tires though. I never could learn what the best air pressures were as long as I had that bad front stabilizer link throwing things out of kilter. Nothing at all seemed to help and as long as I had this slack in that link, all my experiments were for nothing. I am getting pretty close to what is likely normal now. I need to find someone with a trike just like mine and see how it handles before I will ever say I have it like it is suppose to be and that is the way it is. But, I got time on my hands and I plan to keep on playing.

[dwiht]

Hi VT,
I have 205/70R15 Dunlop tires (factory Install) on my 08 Harley Ultra Lehman Trike. I run my tire pressure at 26 lbs. in the back and 29 lbs. in the front. This is what Lehman recommends in the book that came with the trike. I have almost 17,000 miles on this trike and it handles like a dream. I ride the twisted mountain roads (Beartooth Mtns, Big Horn Mtns) and have no trouble keeping up with any other bike. Left or right turns make no difference, wife on or off, and recently added a trailer which I took through some steep twisties close to home and the trike, wife, and the trailer handled extremely well. She felt a lot better after that as she was worried the trailer would throw the trike around. I also run my shocks at 23 to 25 lbs but upped it to 30 with the trailer added. I hope you find out what your trikes problem is. I have no stablizer shock on my trike either. And yes, I still have problems with my passenger pegs falling off.

[1550vt]

Man...I don't know what is left to say about your passenger footboards. That is so bazaar. I think they will adjust up-or-down a little bit. Have you tried to position them a little higher or lower? I mean like...there is a pin on there that plugs into the hole in the frame mount...and then you stick-in a bolt. Just can't understand that one.

I have been all over those mountains you mentioned and got caught in the clouds more than once, but never on my trike. I want to do those again next year. Thanks for the info on the TG tires. I had not tried to find out what size rims-and-tires they had on there, but now I know they are 15's. I had considered going to some 16's (91-93 Mustangs will fit) to reduce my aspect ratio, but I may try the stock TG tire first. The 205 would be considerably narrower than these 245's and if they work on the TG....they should work on my trike.

[Dwight]

1550,
I've got a little over 2K on my T Glide. It handles really well but haven't pushed it too much. It is much narrower than my CSC and I haven't been up to CSC speed in the corners yet. I suspect it will take a little more body english to equal the CSC speed in the corners. It is quicker responding, the shorter wheelbase and narrower track speeds up the handling. I'm not too happy with ride quality, as compared to the CSC, but it's ok considering it is a straight axle trike. Missus isn't complaining so I guess it's ok. I think you will be happier with more conventional size tires. Your's aren't on spoke rims are they? I finally told my boss that if they sold any more kits with spoke wheels they needed to pay me at least $50 more for the install!! They sure look good, but man, what a PITA to install.
Off to the Hatfield/McCoy trails to ride our ATV for a couple of weeks.

Dwight

[1550vt]

Dwight

No spokes for me either. I have ASA 15-inch 5-bar mags. They are basically 91-93 Mustang wheels with the same 4 x 108mm lug pattern. I have been kicking around getting some 16's, but have about decided I can get the tire I want that will fit these 15 x 8 rims. I am considering a 225/55R15, a 225/60R15 or a 215/60R15. I think I am limited to a 225 on these 8-inch rims as nothing smaller will fit, but I can drop over an inch in footprint and an inch in diameter with a 225. I need to gear it down a bit anyway. The 225 will also reduce the sidewall a bit, reduce the flex and let me run a little less air pressure than these 245 ballons.

[dwiht]

VT, my Lehman Kit is a Renegade kit, and mine is an 08 and not a TG. Not that it should make any difference. I like my narrow design especially doing group riding, bikes behind can see as much as a norma two wheel bike, I am only 7" wider on each side than my pegs on my front bar. Of course it makes it easier to get it up on two wheels also.

Dwight

[1550vt]

Dwight....what size rims and tires are on the back of your Renegade. That's what I have and the 245/60R15's came with the kit.

[dwiht]

205/70R15 Dunlop tires (factory Install) on the 08 Renegade with ASA rims. I do not have any other info on the rims. Perhaps Lehman (888-394-3357) could give you more information on the rims.

[1550vt]

June 17th. Update.

The trike handled a bit better on this last trip I took, but I am still not satisfied that I have cured all my issues. The replaced stabilzer link helped and took the "droop" of of the RH turns, but it is still a bit too mushy for my comfort. I did drastically increase tire and shock pressure, which helped also. I am down to only one thing left to change, which are the swing arm cleavebolcks. I suppose I will ultimately have to replace these with something like a Stabo bushing kit. This is the only remaining area that I have not specifically addressed. All you folks running 2002 and newer frames don't have this to worry about. HD went to bearings in the swing arm in the 2002 model year FLH family. I have replaced the rear motor supports and installed delrin inserts already. I have two other moves to make first. One is to replace these 245 tires with a 205, which is stock on the TG and newer kits. I am also raking the front end with 2009 TG trees. I want to see how raking may affect overall handling before I tear this thing apart and start digging around in the swing arm-to-transmission connection.

[Gorilla]

VT you got to love the way our machines are a work in progress and never done. Ted

[1550vt]

My first new Harley was an 86 Softail and I have owned 'em all since then at one time or another. Every one I ever owned (new or used) was simply a platform for experimentation. All my scooters have always been a "work in progress". I have always considered them as something like a small block chevy. You can find parts for a small block or an HD anywhere across this country and there is simply no reason why a man ought not to try and use every one of them. I have done things to these motors that people tell me are impossible..but they keep running. Parts fall off in the street....and they keep running. The only thing they won't leak is water....and they keep running. I look for things to fix that are not even broken. I guess that is why we love them so much.

[Nana]

....and they keep running. I look for things to fix that are not even broken. I guess that is why we love them so much.

And all this time I thought it was for that sexy, throaty rumble!!!! LOL!

[1550vt]

This thread is getting a bit aged, but I would like to make one last post. There may just be somebody out there that goes through this and the information could help.

First of all, thanks to all of those making suggestions. Your contributions were helpful, if nothing else but to remind me to do things I have already done and possibly forgotten about.

I just completed raking my front end and it has made all the difference in the world. A non-raked trike requires greater steering input in those sharp corners....and I mean a lot greater. This additional load has to go somewhere and it goes right into the frame at the neck, which is the fulcrum (pivot) for the handlebar lever. The raked front end requires much..much less steering input resulting in much less load being applied to the frame at the neck. I actually still think I have some component in the syatem that is not yet just right, but with the reduced loads being applied due to the steering improvement, any problem is not as pronounced. Frame members and connecting components are just not as stressed. Reksul is a mechanical engineer.....he can do the math if he wants to and explain all this stuff.

In other words....if I still have something broke, it does not feel nearly as bad as it did. I feel like I have a new scooter.