What a Dipstick. Fact or Fiction

[Mr.Wizard]

Had a conversation today with a friend of mine who is a PHD Harley Tech. He returned from a course and we were chatting about what he learned. The highlight turned to oil puking out of the AC. He says to me...

On Touring models the factory dipstick is marked wrong and is too short. Harley doesn't want to recall an untold number of bikes just to replace the dipstick. Dealers were told to educate the customer to run the oil level 1/2 qt low.

Has anyone else heard this? Fact or Fiction.

[427dave]

The dealer told me this same story when I had the trike serviced. I asked him, if it is a dry sump engine with a oil tank, how can the level being up high effect oil coming out of the A/C. as the oil level is not in the crankcase as it is in most cars. He never answer me except to just say "Well that is what Harley says to do". I had another tech tell me to clean my A/C when oil starts coming out of the breather. I still keep oil level at the full mark and clean the A/C.

[saab9k]

Dry sump, oil will be in tank when engine is running.

[saab9k]

Had a conversation today with a friend of mine who is a PHD Harley Tech. He returned from a course and we were chatting about what he learned. The highlight turned to oil puking out of the AC. He says to me...

On Touring models the factory dipstick is marked wrong and is too short. Harley doesn't want to recall an untold number of bikes just to replace the dipstick. Dealers were told to educate the customer to run the oil level 1/2 qt low.

Has anyone else heard this? Fact or Fiction.

Fiction.

[msocko3]

The dealer told me this same story when I had the trike serviced. I asked him, if it is a dry sump engine with a oil tank, how can the level being up high effect oil coming out of the A/C. as the oil level is not in the crankcase as it is in most cars. He never answer me except to just say "Well that is what Harley says to do". I had another tech tell me to clean my A/C when oil starts coming out of the breather. I still keep oil level at the full mark and clean the A/C.

If you run the level a little lower it allows the engine to use that volume in the oil tank to vent a little better. I've run mine 1/2 qt low for years, hardley ever have oil puke out the air cleaner. The 120 in my 06 is set up to vent through 2 hoses, their always clean with no sign of oil.

[msocko3]

Has anyone else heard this? Fact or Fiction.

I've never heard that one, I'm going with fiction.

[Mr.Wizard]

You guys are hard to fool... tough crowd

When he said that to me I asked him where the oil comes from to puke the AC. He said the EGR vents in the heads.

I asked how the oil gets into the EGR vent, he says vacuum from the throttle body.

I kept messing with him a little and asked what the EGR vent does and kept on breaking down the questions until he finally paused and changed the subject.

Dry sump is correct... I know EGR vents still get soaked in oil but more oil foam since the EGR valve is raised above the floor of the top of the head.

All oil foams as the motor runs. The fiber filter in the EGR assy breaks down the foam converting it back to liquified state which returns back to the oil tank from the top of the head.

Air is pulled through the fiber filter via two small holes in the rocker body directly underneath the EGR assy. The rocker body attaches to the head and a o-ring seals the vent transition to the EGR head port to the outside. This air is actually motor vacuum from the throttle body. It is this same vent that will puddle oil back to the AC.

It is a known factoid that drilling out the two 1/16th vent holes under the EGR assy to 1/8th will help stop oil puddle to the AC. So.... if the vent hole is larger then why doesn't the oil puddle more and puke to the AC more? Why doesn't this vacuum actually suck all of the oil from the heads back to the AC..... Any takers??

[Lakeman]

I have an 05 and the oil is suppose to be checked on the side stand, it has been a cluster to try to find out where it should show on the dipstick. I got one of the digital dipsticks and I don't pull the dip stick out, I make sure it stays full on the LED display. I can put 3 Qts plus 24 oz in with filter and have no problem with the AC. I do pull the dipstick from time to time but before each ride I just push the bottom and look at the display. This Ultra has the dipstick with the "O" rings not threaded and it is a real PTA to get out!

[saab9k]

a 3.2 liter Porsche 911, holds 12 qt of oil. volume of oil is to keep it cooled down before it boils.
So running a qt low don't makes good sense.

[SEAlaskan]

You guys are hard to fool... tough crowd

When he said that to me I asked him where the oil comes from to puke the AC. He said the EGR vents in the heads.

I asked how the oil gets into the EGR vent, he says vacuum from the throttle body.

I kept messing with him a little and asked what the EGR vent does and kept on breaking down the questions until he finally paused and changed the subject.

Dry sump is correct... I know EGR vents still get soaked in oil but more oil foam since the EGR valve is raised above the floor of the top of the head.

All oil foams as the motor runs. The fiber filter in the EGR assy breaks down the foam converting it back to liquified state which returns back to the oil tank from the top of the head.

Air is pulled through the fiber filter via two small holes in the rocker body directly underneath the EGR assy. The rocker body attaches to the head and a o-ring seals the vent transition to the EGR head port to the outside. This air is actually motor vacuum from the throttle body. It is this same vent that will puddle oil back to the AC.

It is a known factoid that drilling out the two 1/16th vent holes under the EGR assy to 1/8th will help stop oil puddle to the AC. So.... if the vent hole is larger then why doesn't the oil puddle more and puke to the AC more? Why doesn't this vacuum actually suck all of the oil from the heads back to the AC..... Any takers??

Increasing the vent hole under the EGR, your decreasing the vacuum or suction from the throttle body????
Butch

[rhino 2]

When i had a Can Am, They are noted for blow- by, Puking in Harley terms,
I would keep the oil level half way between the low and full mark, And that with a little piece of foam in the crankcase vent hose stops the blow-by, With my T/G 103 i leave the oil at half way mark [no foam] with no problems of blow-by.

[Mr.Wizard]

a 3.2 liter Porsche 911, holds 12 qt of oil. volume of oil is to keep it cooled down before it boils.
So running a qt low don't makes good sense.

Correct... Which brings us full circle back to the accuracy of the dipstick. Fact or Fiction?

Owners Manual says, when changing the oil with the filter. Add 3 qts to start then adjust. Manual says 4 qts. Both show a cold and hot level.

!/2 qt down shows with 4 qts after warming up the bike and riding it for a while. 1 qt down shows the motor getting hotter as stated above.

[Mr.Wizard]

Increasing the vent hole under the EGR, your decreasing the vacuum or suction from the throttle body????
Butch

Are you?

The vacuum ports are actually at the air filter not inside the throttle body neck. Factory has a rubber hose that goes inside the stock filter. Aftermarket uses metal ports on the back plate just in front of the butterfly.

**you know I'm up to something don't ya Butch**

[saab9k]

Somewhere there is a trap, subject is changing back and forth. These problems is no concern to us Yamaha folks.
We have bullet proof bikes/trikes

Makes life easy.

[Mr.Wizard]

No trap... subject is the same...

Dipstick and puking.

I'm a Harley guy. No Yamaha for me.

[sportytrike]

A bikes dipstick is set up so you can check the oil level when the bike is leaning over on the kickstand. A trike is always upright. Makes a difference in the reading you get. Unless Harley changed the location to be trike specific It would make a difference.

[Lakeman]

HD no Yamy here, ever!

[rhino 2]

A bikes dipstick is set up so you can check the oil level when the bike is leaning over on the kickstand. A trike is always upright. Makes a difference in the reading you get. Unless Harley changed the location to be trike specific It would make a difference.

The dipstick on the 103 is universal, It has markings for Trikes [vehicle upright] and bikes [on jiffy stand] on the same stick.

[SEAlaskan]

Are you?

The vacuum ports are actually at the air filter not inside the throttle body neck. Factory has a rubber hose that goes inside the stock filter. Aftermarket uses metal ports on the back plate just in front of the butterfly.

**you know I'm up to something don't ya Butch**

Mmmmmm:
I do know by drilling out the rocker arm support plates two holes to 1/8" has just about totally stopped the blow by. My first attempt in slowing down the blowby was enlarging the two holes in the air filter backing plate thinking the restriction was in those two holes which where smaller than the holes in the breather bolts (didn't work). But enlarging the two holes in the rocker arm support plate made the difference, my air filter staying dry. Can't wait for the answer
Butch

[Phu Cat]

volume of oil is to keep it cooled down before it boils

Boil engine oil? Maybe if you heat it with an acetylene torch.

Many people seem to be worried about their engine oil getting too hot. That's one of its jobs, to remove heat. However, running your engine so slow that the oil temp. doesn't exceed 160 F isn't doing the engine any favors either.

Getting your engine oil to a minimum of 160 F and keeping it below 300 F is the trick. Yes, keeping your oil from getting too hot is important, but keeping your oil dehydrated (by getting it hot and keeping it that way long enough to dehydrate it) is equally important.

Keeping qn eye on your oil temp all the time isn't much fun. Nor is slowing down so we don't generate the heat.

Keeping your oil changed frequently is the cheapest insurance goin'. (Know you've heard that before.)

Going 6-7000 miles between oil changes is just crazy, IMHO, even running synthetic. Keeping your oil fresh and dehydrated are the two best things you can do for any engine.

Phu Cat