Dtc p95pe?? Wtfo???

[Nauga Mok]

Having a problem with rear injector not squirting. The reoccurring DCT is "P95PE" that's missing the top leg of the "E" -- however, when readout shows "nonE" the top leg is there. Stuff I've already checked; Signal to rear injector will light a LED test light, but not an incandescent bulb type test light. Front injector signal WILL light incandescent type test light. Injectors will squirt when bumped with batt voltage. Fuel pressure is within limits (50 - 62 specified - 58 PSI actually). Good fire & compression -- not that that really affects the injectors. DID find some water in fuel, but drained tank & put in fresh fuel & blead injectors -- runs on front cyl, but rear is still dead. Fuel rail is clear, as is intake manifold.

Ususally when something bites my butt this hard, it's something simple, so thought I had it with the contaminated fuel. Starting to look like no doubt on the ECM. Does have Power Commander, but with PC out of the system, no change. Did get a DTC for "open head temp sw", but that was my fault for not pluging it back in after changing injectors. That's th eonly other DTC I've gotten other than the "P95PE" that doesn't show up in shop manual anywhere -- or on any DTC list I've found on line.

NM

[Sloufoot]

The E without the top leg is a "t". As when you first get to the DTC codes you get the menu " PSSPt".
I take it you got this code under the "P" heading ? All the other S, SP, t, are all clear with a none response under each?

[Mr.Wizard]

Having a problem with rear injector not squirting. The reoccurring DCT is "P95PE" that's missing the top leg of the "E" -- however, when readout shows "nonE" the top leg is there. Stuff I've already checked; Signal to rear injector will light a LED test light, but not an incandescent bulb type test light. Front injector signal WILL light incandescent type test light. Injectors will squirt when bumped with batt voltage. Fuel pressure is within limits (50 - 62 specified - 58 PSI actually). Good fire & compression -- not that that really affects the injectors. DID find some water in fuel, but drained tank & put in fresh fuel & blead injectors -- runs on front cyl, but rear is still dead. Fuel rail is clear, as is intake manifold.

Ususally when something bites my butt this hard, it's something simple, so thought I had it with the contaminated fuel. Starting to look like no doubt on the ECM. Does have Power Commander, but with PC out of the system, no change. Did get a DTC for "open head temp sw", but that was my fault for not pluging it back in after changing injectors. That's th eonly other DTC I've gotten other than the "P95PE" that doesn't show up in shop manual anywhere -- or on any DTC list I've found on line.

NM

That is the most important thing you typed. What makes you think it is the injector or bad fuel? I agree with you... I believe you are over thinking it.

When a Harley wants to run on the rear cylinder only it is in Temperature Management Mode or EITMS. Another would be spark but you didn't mention you checked that. Did you try unplugging your throttle actuator plug and cleaning the connections? It's the plug at the rear of the throttle body (6 pin connector)

Take a good hard look at your code. Are you sure it isn't P05XX or P15XX (X stands for whatever)

If the injector was bad you could swap front to rear and see it the problem followed.

[FLTR2008TRIKE]

I read on another forum posting that the Power Commander is known for bending the pins to the ECM when the PC first plugged in. It could be the possible issue your having. Removing the PC wont fix it if it turns out to be the problem. Once the pins are bent the ecm will have to be replaced.

Tom

[Mr.Wizard]

Added Note:

Could the code actually say PSSPt??

Check your plug or plug wire (both ends)

Clear the code and see it the code comes back.

- - - Updated - - -

I read on another forum posting that the Power Commander is known for bending the pins to the ECM when the PC first plugged in. It could be the possible issue your having. Removing the PC wont fix it if it turns out to be the problem. Once the pins are bent the ecm will have to be replaced.

Tom

Tom.. you are correct... Square peg in a round hole as well. That's right, a mismatch in the PC and ECM has been a well known issue for years. I've been able to straighten out ECM pins and all was fine but I don't think the OP has such an issue... well, not yet anyway.

[Nauga Mok]

The E without the top leg is a "t". As when you first get to the DTC codes you get the menu " PSSPt".
I take it you got this code under the "P" heading ? All the other S, SP, t, are all clear with a none response under each?

Ok, can see the "5" = "S" & funny "E" = "t", but how does the "9" = "S"?? Only getting the "P9SPt" followed by "nonE", nothing else.

[Nauga Mok]

If you look right above your red "runs", you'll see where I said "Good fire & compression." Doesn't that indicate good spark? Uh, when you drain fuel from the tank into a clear container & you see it split into 2 different looking fluids, the top layer will ignite like gasoline should & the bottom layer won't ignite with a torch & beads up on an oily surface, doesn't THAT indicate some sort of fuel contamination -- most likely water? Did switch injectors, & even REPLACED injectors with an old set even though all 4 injectors will squirt when bumped with batt voltage. It seems everybody is missing the bit where I explained I'm getting a signal at the rear injector plug that will light a LED test light but not a incandescent type test light. The LED test shows I'm getting a signal of some sort, but at a very low amperage level. That in itself says I'm getting a signal of some sort from the ECM AND eliminates bent pins, bad wires & such. The problem is that signal wil not light the higher amp draw regular light bulb type test light like the front injector signal will. By the way, My Ultra is an '06 with cable throttle, not "fly by wire". Sorry I didn't mention that. Something else that may have a bearing on this problem is my rear exhaust pipe (tru dual set up) is black clear to the muffler, indicating the rear cylinder has been running in a lean condition for some time. Front cyl exhaust pipe is still nice & bright from about passenger foot board on back to muffler, as it should be. Rear spark plug shell is discolored when I replace at 10,000 mile services, also indicating extreme heat. Just did a 10,000 about 1500 miles ago & have swapped plugs during all this.

- - - Updated - - -

I read on another forum posting that the Power Commander is known for bending the pins to the ECM when the PC first plugged in. It could be the possible issue your having. Removing the PC wont fix it if it turns out to be the problem. Once the pins are bent the ecm will have to be replaced.

Tom

Did a visual check for this 'cause I've ran accross it before on other plugs. Could understad it now, but not when the problem first showed up.

[Nauga Mok]

Yes, Wiz, the code comes back. I'm still having a problem growing that "9" into a "S"! I highly doubt any ignition problems since I've checked with plug in open air & spark strength with tester. After replacing fuel & bleading injectors, I got a LITTLE heat on the back pipe almost immediately, but it didn't get hot like it should. Everything I've done indicates I'm going to have to bite the bullet & get a new ECM.

[Sloufoot]

You could still have a wire problem with the amperage of that signal wire. A mostly broken, or corroded connection in the wire itself. If you have been running so lean for that long, I would say the problem has been there for some time also. It just got bad enough to completely kill the one cyl. Trace that signal wire out. It could be in a module also, but they are usually good or bad, not in between.
Bad wire, or bad connection. Harley has had to replace complete harness at times. It could be in a connector also.

[Mr.Wizard]

We can be the best guess'rs in town...

I assume the front injector will light up all test lights as you said but the rear doesn't. This could still mean Limp Mode from your ECM or Throttle sensor. Injectors work off of millivolt current from the ECM. The more rich the more millivolt. Do you know anyone with a TTS? If so, have them come over and hook up their TTS to your bike. Record a generic 02 data scan. As long as the bike is turned on at the console and handle bar switch it will record the start up or start up attempt. Examine the data and you will see what the ECM is attempting to do. You can also read DTC's with the TTS. The only thing you can't do with a buddy's TTS is flash your bike.

[Mr.Wizard]

You probably know this by heart but here it is again...

Can you please go through your codes for us one more time, maybe have a magnifying glass with you and take a good look? The code you are putting up just doesn't seem to exist.






1- Turn Ignition switch to OFF & Run/Stop switch is to Run.

2- Push odometer reset button in & hold.

3- Turn ignition switch to Ignition and release the odometer reset button. Background lighting should illuminate, speedometer needle should sweep its full range and indicator lamps (battery, security, low fuel, check engine and cruise) should illuminate. The word “diag” should then appear.

4 - Push the odometer reset button once and you will see the selection menu "PSSPt" with the first P flashing.

5 - Each letter represents an area of the diagnostics module. The module that is flashing is the one you are going to check. To move from one letter (module) to the next, you push the odometer reset button one time. (from P to S to SP to t and back to P, etc.)
P = ECM/ICM (Electronic Control Module) [EFI] / Ignition Control Module [Carbureted])
S = TSM/TSSM (Turn Signal/ Security Module)
SP = speedometer
T = tachometer

6 - To get the DTC within an area of diagnostics, push and hold the odometer reset button in for 5 seconds and release. If there are any DTC’s the code will be displayed or the word “none” will appear if there are no DTC’s. Push the odometer reset button again to view additional codes if they exist.

7 - Record the codes.

8 - If DTC’s are not to be cleared, Press and release the odometer reset button. Part number of module will be displayed.
NOTE: To determine if a code is current or historic, clear the displayed code by pushing in and holding the odometer reset button ( longer than 5 seconds) until 'clear' comes up. Release the odometer reset button. Turn OFF the ignition switch. Run your bike and shut it down then recheck the DTC’s again by repeating steps 1 to 9. If the code is current it will reappear.

9 – Press and release the odometer reset button to continue to the next module.

10 – Turn Ignition switch to OFF.

On models not equipped with a tachometer "No Rsp" will appear when the tachometer identifier is selected.

"No Rsp" (no response) will also appear if the run/off switch is in the off position when doing this procedure.

[Nauga Mok]

You probably know this by heart but here it is again...

Can you please go through your codes for us one more time, maybe have a magnifying glass with you and take a good look? The code you are putting up just doesn't seem to exist.






1- Turn Ignition switch to OFF & Run/Stop switch is to Run.

2- Push odometer reset button in & hold.

3- Turn ignition switch to Ignition and release the odometer reset button. Background lighting should illuminate, speedometer needle should sweep its full range and indicator lamps (battery, security, low fuel, check engine and cruise) should illuminate. The word “diag” should then appear.

4 - Push the odometer reset button once and you will see the selection menu "PSSPt" with the first P flashing.

5 - Each letter represents an area of the diagnostics module. The module that is flashing is the one you are going to check. To move from one letter (module) to the next, you push the odometer reset button one time. (from P to S to SP to t and back to P, etc.)
P = ECM/ICM (Electronic Control Module) [EFI] / Ignition Control Module [Carbureted])
S = TSM/TSSM (Turn Signal/ Security Module)
SP = speedometer
T = tachometer

6 - To get the DTC within an area of diagnostics, push and hold the odometer reset button in for 5 seconds and release. If there are any DTC’s the code will be displayed or the word “none” will appear if there are no DTC’s. Push the odometer reset button again to view additional codes if they exist.

7 - Record the codes.

8 - If DTC’s are not to be cleared, Press and release the odometer reset button. Part number of module will be displayed.
NOTE: To determine if a code is current or historic, clear the displayed code by pushing in and holding the odometer reset button ( longer than 5 seconds) until 'clear' comes up. Release the odometer reset button. Turn OFF the ignition switch. Run your bike and shut it down then recheck the DTC’s again by repeating steps 1 to 9. If the code is current it will reappear.

9 – Press and release the odometer reset button to continue to the next module.

10 – Turn Ignition switch to OFF.

On models not equipped with a tachometer "No Rsp" will appear when the tachometer identifier is selected.

"No Rsp" (no response) will also appear if the run/off switch is in the off position when doing this procedure.

Yep -- exactly what my service manual sez

NM

[Nauga Mok]

We can be the best guess'rs in town...

I assume the front injector will light up all test lights as you said but the rear doesn't. This could still mean Limp Mode from your ECM or Throttle sensor. Injectors work off of millivolt current from the ECM. The more rich the more millivolt. Do you know anyone with a TTS? If so, have them come over and hook up their TTS to your bike. Record a generic 02 data scan. As long as the bike is turned on at the console and handle bar switch it will record the start up or start up attempt. Examine the data and you will see what the ECM is attempting to do. You can also read DTC's with the TTS. The only thing you can't do with a buddy's TTS is flash your bike.

As I mentioned before, it's an '06 -- no O2 sensor or fly by wire throttle. Not completely sure the '06 has "limp mode". I've had it awfully hot in parades & haven't had "limp mode" engage. This past July 4th our PGR was in a parade. When we shut doen at end of parade to furl flags, ALL Harleys were so hot we had to crack fuel tank caps to blead off the tank pressure so they'd quit flooding -- engine heat was boiling the gas in the tanks. Even then mine had to cool right at 1 hour before it'd start, but still no limp mode throughout. My neighbor's '09 engages limp mode over almost nothing. Here in Southern NV our summer ambients are such if he parks out side with no shade, it starts up in limp mode. Keep telling him to try a different head temp sender, so yes, I know what limp mode is & does, 'cept I haven't had that happen. No one I know has a TTS. The diagniostic function on the speedo doesn't really act right. The indicator lights that are supposed to light up & stay lit up, don't. As soon as I release the mileage reset, they go out. I get to read codes 1 time even if I don't do the "clear" process. Can't go back in to check codes without running the engine for at least 5 min. I can get the "diag" to come up, but nothing else & so far haven't been able to get past "P" codes when it does work. Another indication there's an ECM problem??? Hmmm -- that might be a speedo problem, huh?
NM

[Mr.Wizard]

As I mentioned before, it's an '06 -- no O2 sensor or fly by wire throttle. Not completely sure the '06 has "limp mode". I've had it awfully hot in parades & haven't had "limp mode" engage. This past July 4th our PGR was in a parade. When we shut doen at end of parade to furl flags, ALL Harleys were so hot we had to crack fuel tank caps to blead off the tank pressure so they'd quit flooding -- engine heat was boiling the gas in the tanks. Even then mine had to cool right at 1 hour before it'd start, but still no limp mode throughout. My neighbor's '09 engages limp mode over almost nothing. Here in Southern NV our summer ambients are such if he parks out side with no shade, it starts up in limp mode. Keep telling him to try a different head temp sender, so yes, I know what limp mode is & does, 'cept I haven't had that happen. No one I know has a TTS. The diagniostic function on the speedo doesn't really act right. The indicator lights that are supposed to light up & stay lit up, don't. As soon as I release the mileage reset, they go out. I get to read codes 1 time even if I don't do the "clear" process. Can't go back in to check codes without running the engine for at least 5 min. I can get the "diag" to come up, but nothing else & so far haven't been able to get past "P" codes when it does work. Another indication there's an ECM problem??? Hmmm -- that might be a speedo problem, huh?
NM

Chit... I'm reading between the lines aren't I? Sorry about that.

The 06 does have limp mode abilities but it's not set up in the ECM calibration to have EITMS. All ECM's from 2005 up have the capabilities of using 02 sensors.

The speedo, speed sensor and the turn signals as well as the turn signals run through the TSSM or TSM without an alarm. So, if your turn signals work your TSSM/TSM is fine.

I've ridden in many PGR missions where I didn't go into EMITS but all of my bikes are tuned with the TTS. Hot, yes but never limp mode unless something was broken.

Here are a few files that may help you but they are 2004. Scary similar to the 06.

https://app.box.com/s/gl8ljn33sj7ghzkrljdy

https://app.box.com/s/5a1kopi5z9xz1dir82h2

Here is a copy of the 06 Touring manual if you don't have a digital manual.

https://app.box.com/s/rnfb05a70auth4o7qsch

If you don't have them, here are the older DTC codes for 2009 and later EFI models.

https://app.box.com/s/csv7uz99t8u6l96t2ad6

Last but not least.. Have you cleaned your VSS?

[dporto]

Nauga if you have a friend that is a electronics technician with a dual trace oscilloscope have him come over and hook it up to the front and rear injectors, fire up the motor on the front cyclnder and see how the signal from the ECM differs and work the problem back from the injectors to the ECM it could be a bad connection on a wire at the point of crimping that will look good visually but fail electrically. Last resort would be to buy an ECM. If the problem tracks back to the ECM check your local bike junk yards you might be able to get one off a wreck.