5.56 ammo question

[THEREALTRIKKY]

Are there any AR "buffs" in here? If so, I have a few questions concerning ammo, preferences, and why.

I'm a rookie when it comes to this level of firearm so to speak; I'm learning, but to learn, you have to ask the questions!
I'm going to primarily be using 75-77 gr in my 5.56. Due to availability issues with these loads overall, I'd like some input about a secondary round.
I'm looking at either -
XM193 5.56x45 55gr Full Metal Jacket .. OR
XM855 5.56x45 62 gr SS109 Steel Core
which would you recommend and why?

[kwputt]

Not an expert by any means, however it makes a big difference if you know the barrell twist. From my experience the 7 to 9 twist is more accurate with the 62 grain bullett.

[THEREALTRIKKY]

Suppose that would have helped a bit!
14.5” Shilen 416R stainless, 4 groove ratchet rifling with a 1:8 twist. It’s hand lapped with a medium heavy cotour, mid length gas wylde chamber.. Templar Tactical flash hider that’s tac welded to the barrel

[Bruce]

When I hand load for the 5.56 I use the 55 gr hornady SX bullets, does a great job from chucks to coyotes. I did shoot one deer with it but it does a lot of meat damage.

[werewolf]

Your 1 in 8 barrel SHOULD stabilize the heavier 75 grain bullets.

Your best bet is to take different types of ammo to the range and see what the
rifle shoots best.

The 62 grain is a penetrator round. It should make nice little holes all the
way thru whatever you are shooting at. HOWEVER it may not make a good
home defense round.

Black Hills makes some nice soft point and hollow point ammo.

The TAP rounds have a good reputation with law enforcement.
You may not be able to get the 5.56 version, but the .223 ones
are usually for sale somewhere.

If you havnt been to www.ar15.com, there is a lot of information there.

[THEREALTRIKKY]

Thanks for the feedback! The company that manufactures the rifle recommends the 75-77 gr overall, but because of availability concerns, I'm looking for a good secondary round as well. I'm open to either 5.56 or .223 since mine is a 5.56 and will load either. I'm a regular on ar15.com and ar15 gun owners sites.. Posted the questions there with only one response so far, that happen to come from a close friend of mine. I figured this would be a great place to ask the questions as well..

Thanks for the feedback!

[Bullet]

Your 1 in 8 barrel SHOULD stabilize the heavier 75 grain bullets.

Your best bet is to take different types of ammo to the range and see what the
rifle shoots best.

The 62 grain is a penetrator round. It should make nice little holes all the
way thru whatever you are shooting at. HOWEVER it may not make a good
home defense round.

Black Hills makes some nice soft point and hollow point ammo.

The TAP rounds have a good reputation with law enforcement.
You may not be able to get the 5.56 version, but the .223 ones
are usually for sale somewhere.

If you havnt been to www.ar15.com, there is a lot of information there.

Be very aware of those you talk to on that forum. There are many children on that site with no experience in shooting matters.

[THEREALTRIKKY]

No worries there Bullet!

I learned a long time ago, I'm responsible for the homework done, and any outcome from MY actions. If I trust what a person says, and something goes wrong, that's my fault. My first point of contact about ammo was the manufacturer that's building my gun. They specifically recommend the heavier 75-77 GR bullet. I'm leaning towards the 63 GR steel core as a secondary choice; BUT, since it's been soooo long since I've really tinkered in firearms, figured I'd ask a few questions from more experienced folks!

[ebiss9]

There seems to be so much conflicting information out there in the relationship between twist rate and bullet weight. For instance, Speer reloading manual for the .223 shows a 1-in-10 rate for their 62 grain FMJ-BT bullets. VihtaVuori powder load information claims the same Speer 62 grain FMJ-BT works fine with a 1-in-12 twist. Now Western powder utilizes a 1-in-12 and makes no distinction with any bullet weight up to and including 90 grain. And then Nosler manual indicates a 1-in 7 for their 62 grain FBHP Varmageddon bullet. To add more confusion to the mix, Western powders also show load information using a bullet as low as 30 grain 5.56 x 45mm NATO with 1-in-7. Now it’s my understanding that a bullet weighing in at 40 grains and below will fragment upon exiting the barrel in a 1-in-7! HELP, my head is going to explode with all this inconsistency!!!! All kidding aside, I understand that a 1-in-9 and faster twist works well on the 62 grain 5.56 x 45 M855 with the faster twist providing better accuracy for a bullet heavier than 62 grain. I'm far from an expert but have had very good results with my 1-in-7 and the 62 grain M855..............Rob

[Bruce]

Both of mine are 1-7 twists and I've had real good luck with 50 to 75 grain bullets. I have tried the real light bullets loaded to the max but have never had them fragment ( could not get any good accuracy out of the light bullets ) That being said I have never been able to get good groups using Western powder with any bullet weight.

[THEREALTRIKKY]

I do know the lighter bullets are used for enforcement use because they're very effective at closer range. Since this is where most of their "uses" are. The lighter bullets are too subjective to wind/ movement, etc at longer distances. This is why they recommend 70+ gr lead for "longer shots" because they are much more stable at a distance. In my rifle for example, a 75gr load is good for 400 yards.. No way I could do that with a 55 or 62 gr load.

[GARYD]

Are there any AR "buffs" in here? If so, I have a few questions concerning ammo, preferences, and why.

I'm a rookie when it comes to this level of firearm so to speak; I'm learning, but to learn, you have to ask the questions!
I'm going to primarily be using 75-77 gr in my 5.56. Due to availability issues with these loads overall, I'd like some input about a secondary round.
I'm looking at either -
XM193 5.56x45 55gr Full Metal Jacket .. OR
XM855 5.56x45 62 gr SS109 Steel Core
which would you recommend and why?

If you're a rookie then I'm a blind hippy. I have no idea how many twists there are in any of my weapons. I don't know how many grains are in the bullets I buy. All I know is if the ammo is a good price I buy it and stock pile it. Ammo shortage didn't affect me all of last year.
My question is does it really matter? I am a decent shot - not match quality(shot expert with M14 and 1911 in the Marines). Go to the range maybe 6 to 8 times a year.
I will use my hand guns up to about 20'-25' over that and up to about 200' I will use one of my long guns. Don't see any reason for longer distances....I've seen all the zombie movies.
If the time comes, will the number of twists or the amount of grains make that much of a difference between hitting or missing a zombie at those distances???

BTW. what's your opinion on the Chiappa Rhino pistol? I'd like to add that to my collection, but it's expensive.

[THEREALTRIKKY]

And that's exactly what makes places like this so awesome! We each have a different "intended use" and ideal for our firearms and it gives us a place to do so.

As far as twist rate, grain, load, ballistics, etc. For me, it matters; don't get me wrong, I'm by no means a "sharpshooter". We have a decent amount of land, and do a fair amount of hunting.. The ballistics, gr, twist rate, etc for me would mean the difference between a head shot @ 400 yards, or missing entirely, or simply wounding game and have it potentially bleed out very slowly over a period of time.

I also have a bit of "cheap" ammo for "fun shooting"... But, I also have higher quality ammo for longer distance shooting when accuracy matters.

I know it's "only a 5.56" and not made for 1,000 yard shots (one day I'll have a .308 for that), but if you knew me, you'd understand!! haha

[Leathel]

And that's exactly what makes places like this so awesome! We each have a different "intended use" and ideal for our firearms and it gives us a place to do so.

As far as twist rate, grain, load, ballistics, etc. For me, it matters; don't get me wrong, I'm by no means a "sharpshooter". We have a decent amount of land, and do a fair amount of hunting.. The ballistics, gr, twist rate, etc for me would mean the difference between a head shot @ 400 yards, or missing entirely, or simply wounding game and have it potentially bleed out very slowly over a period of time.

I also have a bit of "cheap" ammo for "fun shooting"... But, I also have higher quality ammo for longer distance shooting when accuracy matters.

I know it's "only a 5.56" and not made for 1,000 yard shots (one day I'll have a .308 for that), but if you knew me, you'd understand!! haha

what hunting do you do? soft fluffy critters and bigger?

Soft fluffies I like Vmaxs, the rapid expansion gives better margin of error, you just need to get your shots close to lungs etc and the shock of the exploding bullet does the rest... If you are going for bigger you either need to place shots well in head of vital parts of the neck as a soft pill may not get past the leg bone. Twist rates usually have a weight they work best with and a weight where the groups start to get bigger, not necessarily weight but bearing surface area (flat base pills you can go heavier per twist than sleek ones)

I shoot up to goats with my 5.56/223's (the odd deer head shot) and load my own with a local made 69gr bullet for targets and bigger animals and 55gr Vmax for lighter critters, 1:9 twist for both rifles, longer range and bigger animals I have bigger rifles

[wiredgeorge]

When I hand load for the 5.56 I use the 55 gr hornady SX bullets, does a great job from chucks to coyotes. I did shoot one deer with it but it does a lot of meat damage.

Interesting... the ammo used in the early M16 didn't jive well with the rifling that was used and the bullets tended to tumble after a certain point; even using the FMJ the Geneva Convention demands, the early M16 had the rep for being very destructive because of this tumble. The tumble also reduced accuracy at medium to longer range targets; such as over 50 yards, as I recall so they got the ammo and rifling sorted and the weapon became much more accurate but ball ammo just pokes a hole in flesh and does relatively less tissue damage. If you are shooting deer and there is an unacceptable amount of damage, this would indicate tumble I think. 55 Grain is pretty much the mil-spec standard as I recall? That is what I generally buy as it is cheapest although I did get a large batch of 40 Grain which shoots decently. I am not a hunter. I use my AR15 for home defense and target shooting although much of my target shooting these days is with my CZ455 17HMR because it is more fund and more accurate out to 100 yards and a bunch cheaper to shoot.

[THEREALTRIKKY]

what hunting do you do? soft fluffy critters and bigger?

Soft fluffies I like Vmaxs, the rapid expansion gives better margin of error, you just need to get your shots close to lungs etc and the shock of the exploding bullet does the rest... If you are going for bigger you either need to place shots well in head of vital parts of the neck as a soft pill may not get past the leg bone. Twist rates usually have a weight they work best with and a weight where the groups start to get bigger, not necessarily weight but bearing surface area (flat base pills you can go heavier per twist than sleek ones)

I shoot up to goats with my 5.56/223's (the odd deer head shot) and load my own with a local made 69gr bullet for targets and bigger animals and 55gr Vmax for lighter critters, 1:9 twist for both rifles, longer range and bigger animals I have bigger rifles

The majority of our hunting is hog (closer range (75-100 yard range) and coyote's out to about 200 yards on average. For hunting, I use Hornady match grade BTHP ammo due to it's high velocity, energy, and range before any real drop.

Keep in mind my AR is also a "match grade" high end build with components most will never use, or need. @ 100 yards with the load I use for hunting I average less than 1/2" grouping in my shots.. I just recently "upgraded" my optic to a higher magnification, so I've yet to see my grouping @ 200 yards (this is where the ammo I use is at 0 drop).

[Leathel]

The majority of our hunting is hog (closer range (75-100 yard range) and coyote's out to about 200 yards on average. For hunting, I use Hornady match grade BTHP ammo due to it's high velocity, energy, and range before any real drop.

Keep in mind my AR is also a "match grade" high end build with components most will never use, or need. @ 100 yards with the load I use for hunting I average less than 1/2" grouping in my shots.. I just recently "upgraded" my optic to a higher magnification, so I've yet to see my grouping @ 200 yards (this is where the ammo I use is at 0 drop).

I had been using 69gr Targex bullets that are locally made using Berger jackets, these are a little hard for soft skinned animals and often required second shot if not perfectly placed (pretty full of lead) but velocity helps, have them running just over 3000fps.... they certainly shoot well in both rifles, my .223's are but but both shooting incredibly accurate considering the budget end of the scale and they are the only 2 non customized rifles I have (Marlin XS7 and Mosberg hunter AR15)....Some people locally use light Barnes as the velocity gains do wonder's on softer skins animals while the stronger construction goes well on the bigger critters. The faster twist can destroy lighter pills driven hard but Barnes are stronger

I have gone lighter softer but I dont use mine on hogs of bigger animals, goats mostly with the odd fallow deer with the kids rifle but head/ neck shots only is the rule for that farm we shoot on for them.