New Tech Article

[Nana]

I'm pleased to see that Ultraboy has posted a new tech article for our edification......Steering Damper for FLH Harley-Davidson® Bikes/Trikes.

Just to let you know, the article threads are limited to posts by the specified author only. But I know many of you may have comments, discussion, or questions regarding the article. Please feel free to use this thread for that conversation. Ultraboy will keep an eye out for your comments and thoughts and will respond to them here too.

[hepengr]

Ultraboy

I have an 07 Ultra with a Lehman Renegade conversion. Due to financial contraints at the time, I decided to have the Baker reverse option installed at the time, and took the wait-and-see route on the raked triple trees.

By the articles / posts and comments by other members of this forum, It appears that the installation of raked triple trees will be the next welcome addition to my trike.

I see by your articles, that you have installed both the TG raked trees, and steering damper on your 06 UC. I have some questions where I would appreciate your input and experience.

I would assume that the TG triple trees would fit my 07 CVO UC without a major modification to either the trike or the triple-trees?

I have a fair set of tools, and past mechanical experience on heavy construction and mining equipment, but little experience "wrenching" on bikes.
Would you recommend that I attempt installation of the triple trees myself or spend the xtra bucks and leave the installation to the pro's?

Can you provide me with a rough estimate of the cost of the required parts, and installation time (by an experienced HD mechanic) for the TG raked trees?

You've probably ridden your trike a considerable distance both before and after the installation of the TG steering damper. Does the steering damper provide the same level of improvement in handling, as going from the standard triple trees to the TG trees?

Thanks and Best Regards; Hepengr

[ultraboy]

Sorry, I forgot Nana had put this thread here, and I just saw it. Geeze, December 30th, sorry!

OK, your questions in red.
1. I would assume that the TG triple trees would fit my 07 CVO UC without a major modification to either the trike or the triple-trees?

You assume correctly. No Problem.

2. I have a fair set of tools, and past mechanical experience on heavy construction and mining equipment, but little experience "wrenching" on bikes.
Would you recommend that I attempt installation of the triple trees myself or spend the xtra bucks and leave the installation to the pro's?

If you have a service manual for your bike, and feel comfortable, I would say go ahead. The exceptions are outlined in the Article on this site.

3. Can you provide me with a rough estimate of the cost of the required parts, and installation time (by an experienced HD mechanic) for the TG raked trees?

The parts costs are in the TG tree article. Note that the prices I quoted are what I paid through an on-line discount dealer. I also posted a follow-up thread under the main article regarding what I got back by selling my front end take off parts. Last time I checked on dealer labor for a triple tree installation, it was about 7 hours. Because this is a non-standard installation, it will probably be more. Dealers near me are at 65 to 70 bucks an hour. I have done several of these now, and it still takes me 5+ hours on a fairing equipped bagger. On an RK, it's much quicker.

4. You've probably ridden your trike a considerable distance both before and after the installation of the TG steering damper. Does the steering damper provide the same level of improvement in handling, as going from the standard triple trees to the TG trees?

The installation of the triple trees was a MAJOR steering effort improvement, and I rode it that way for several thousand miles. I did the TG steering damper to get rid of a perceived steering 'over sensitivity' at high speeds. On my trike, there was no low speed wobble, it just seemed too sensitive in the higher speeds. The damper cured that, without detracting from the power steering feeling the raked trees give. Definately do the trees first, then see how it feels.
As I noted in the Steering damper article, there are several less expensive steering dampers out there, I just happen to prefer the 'hidden' look of the TG damper.
Good luck, and once again, sorry to be so late answering this....

UB

[hepengr]

UB

Thanks for the response regarding the TG Triple Trees and Steering Dampner.

One additional question: I noticed that you went with the TG forks on your installation which are a little longer than the standard UC forks. Is the fork change a luxury or a necessity?

Assuming that I can use the forks that I now have, will I have to change the ride height, fluid level, etc to make the suspension behave properly? I have installed Race-tech springs and gold valves in the forks.

Thanks and Best Regards

Hepengr (Don)

[ultraboy]

Going to the longer forks was just my choice, and not really necessary. Your ride height will change by about 5/16", hardly noticeable. Of the 10 or so that I have done, most stayed with the stock forks. Personally, I did not notice any rideability differences, and virtually no changes in fluid levels.
The main setup difference is in the fall-away adjustment. On a trike, you want it tight. Once you rake the trees, you will be surprised at the steering difference. I have yet to meet anyone who thought it was not worth it.

[Gorilla]

hepengr, I have been waiting on Dave to answer you because I wanted you to get the straight info. I have made several mods on my trike using Dave's articles as guidance. I have programed Power Commanders and install a AIM reverse and a Aim Clutch pressure Plate all with his words as guidance. I have done the rake conversion but not with the HD trees but the same procedures apply. With your mechanical experence it will not be that hard. As Dave said get the service manual for your year and model Harley. Print out Daves article and you will be GOOD TO GO. He is the man.

[ultraboy]

Gee Ted, ya got me all choked up here! I'm just sorry it too me so long to notice that there was a post.

[Gorilla]

Dave you deserve the acknowledgement. I just thank you for helping all of us.

[hepengr]

Thanks guys for your words of encouragement. I have a service manual which has been a real life saver on several occasions.

When I first purchased the bike and had it triked I was reluctant to tear things apart myself. I took the trike to the shop that installed the Lehman kit to have some things checked out at decided to have them perform the 10K service. The tech went to great lengths to explain to me that all the compartments were low on oil, and I should keep a better eye on things. On the 160 mile ride home, I made a gas stop and checked the oil temp which was 300 degrees. When I pulled the stick, the oil level was way overfull. I drained out 2/3 of a quart just to get the level down to full mark. Needless to say, It'll be a cold day in Arizona when I have anything done there again.

My experience with the service dept at the local HD stealer hasn't been much better. Took the bike in for the imfamous 110 CI head gasket update which in the end included new heads as well. When I went in to pick up the trike, the service writer walked out to the trike with me and was explaining the work that had been done. I noticed that the 110 CI tags on the heads were a differnent color than when I dropped the bike off. I asked the guy if the heads had been replaced and his reply was well I don't think so. After I insisted that he check the WO for the job, we verified that indeed the heads had been replaced along with the gaskets.

When I headed for home the engine coughed and almost died at the first couple of stop lights, but cleared out and ran fairly well the rest of the way home. When I hit the hiway I turned on the cruise control and you guessed it,
it didn't work. When I pulled unto the steet where I live, the engine died, but would restart. It required several of these cycles to reach my driveway and limp into the garage. The following moring the engine fired up and ran well for most of the return trip to the HD dealership. When I got within shouting distance of the dealership, the engine began acting the same as the day before - die, restart, go 100 feet die, etc.

After 2 - 3 days of trouble shooting the service writed called and said the CKP sensor had failed was the source of the engine dieing problem, and that replacing the CKP sensor would cure the problem. The following day he called again said that they had replaced the CKP sensor, but were still have problems with the engine. They had detemined that the PCIII had gone bad, and was sending to much voltage to the sensors, and that was what took out the CPK sensor. They could of course fix the whole problem by installing SERT and dyno-tune for a mere $ 850.00.

This next trip from the HD dealer home was with the trike loaded on my buddys trailer. I installed a TM w/AT myself and the engine runs great. The best part of the TM to me is that I'm NOT tied to the service idiots at the HD stealer to tune the engine or troubleshoot my problems

Your advice and encouragement as well as my bad experiece at service shops has convinced me that I'm better off tackling repairs / modifications myself, rather than pay someone else $ 60 - $80 / hour to screw it up for me.

Regards

Hepengr

[ultraboy]

Unfortunately, your story is very similar to other stories that just keep on cropping up, all over the country. Nobody wants to repair anything anymore, they just want to change parts. I do know that there are exceptions, and to those folks that have had good luck at their dealer service departments, you all are the lucky few. The reality is that there are just not enough properly trained technicians, period. The "right to repair" act, once fully implemented, will help, but with the EPA breathing down manufacturers necks, demanding more and more control, HD owners antique pushrod air cooled V-twins are going to demand more and more owners to learn to fix their own. Personally, I wouldn't let a dealer put air in my tires, and couldn't care less about any warantee, but that's just me, and I realize that I'm in the minority. I would strongly suggest that every owner purchase the factory service manual, parts catalog, and electrical diagnostic manual for their ride. Don't set them on a shelf either, read them cover to cover, two or three times if you have to, until things start to make sense. Don't forget that owners manual either, lots of good, basic information in there too. You'll be miles ahead.