If I remove the CAT, do I have to remap and would the dealer know?

[Mojave]

The 450+ degrees at the collector is just ridiculous. Having 275/250 at the heads is one thing, but this has to stop. Had I known, I would have bought a pre-CAT conversion.
But I have it and like it a lot, so if I put new pipes on without a CAT, must it be remapped? Will the Dealer know the CAT is gone? My state doesn't smog bikes...YET!
Thanks for your help. I have to get rid of these pipes and I saw some stock ones with the CAT removed for $135-150. Cheap fix if not much more is involved. Ride Safely.

[Shriner Jim]

If all you did was remove the cat, no prob. If you also open up the a/c you'll need a re-map or a fuel management system such as FuelMoto or FuelPac or the like.

[sandrooney]

What year is it ?

[msocko3]

A sharp mechanic will be able to tell if the cat has been removed. Pretty much every bike or trike coming off the show room floor is EPA lean and could benefit from a good tune. The problem is when you start messing with tuning devices you risk warranty issues.

[Mojave]

Thanks for the input. It's a 2013 with the SE Burst AC and Street Cannon mufflers with a Stage 1 remap. So it seems like swapping the pipes for no CAT pipes will not need a remap. It's funny, a cooler running bike might mess up the warranty :-) Thanks again. For maybe more HP, MPG and a lot less heat, I'll just have to take my chances. Keep the shiny side up!

[PIGGI]

The 450+ degrees at the collector is just ridiculous. Having 275/250 at the heads is one thing, but this has to stop. Had I known, I would have bought a pre-CAT conversion.
But I have it and like it a lot, so if I put new pipes on without a CAT, must it be remapped? Will the Dealer know the CAT is gone? My state doesn't smog bikes...YET!
Thanks for your help. I have to get rid of these pipes and I saw some stock ones with the CAT removed for $135-150. Cheap fix if not much more is involved. Ride Safely.

The CAT which is under the pass floorboard runs at more like 1200 degrees, thats why you feel the heat so much. Removing the CAT won't make the engine any cooler but the surrounding air will feel much better.

[darkglide1]

The 450+ degrees at the collector is just ridiculous. Having 275/250 at the heads is one thing, but this has to stop. Had I known, I would have bought a pre-CAT conversion.
But I have it and like it a lot, so if I put new pipes on without a CAT, must it be remapped? Will the Dealer know the CAT is gone? My state doesn't smog bikes...YET!
Thanks for your help. I have to get rid of these pipes and I saw some stock ones with the CAT removed for $135-150. Cheap fix if not much more is involved. Ride Safely.

If your wanting it look OEM you can find 2009 non-cvo headpipes; they do not have the cat. You could also just de-cat your headpipe (many how-to post on cvoharley) - not hard, just time consuming and for this no remap is required. Now, you may notice a slight difference in heat reduction but not much - most of the heat is in the HD tune which is on the lean side for epa purposes and why it's a must when when open up the AC. Using any of the major tuners you can correct this; the plug and play tuners enriches the tune to exceptable generic tolerances; other tuners like SERT and closed loop tuners allow you to fine tune.

Check out FullSAC. As for the dealer, from what I've experienced (no offense) most of the techs wouldn't think of looking to confirm unless they were lead to it - those experienced tech's would more than likely smell it . If you're real concerned go talk with service manager.

[Mojave]

Good info. Thank you. I either do it now or wait 10 months until the warranty runs out. You didn't say this, but from other threads elsewhere, I don't believe using more fuel to cool an engine (xides or tuning) makes much sense. Harley screwed up and used a big hot bandaid until the engine is fully water cooled and the cat relocated further back or one in each pipe further back. When a bike part near a leg or foot is over 450 degrees, the self ignition point of paper, there's something very wrong and dangerous. They made a big deal about Project Rushmore but it's BS. Cooled heads, iffy gps, a vent and an iffy clutch isn't ground breaking or looking out for customers. It's a short term gimmick until they build a bike worth the price tag. If Honda can do it with a Hannigan conversion, HD can do it as well for less. I'm getting to old too be brand loyal. Next time I'm getting the best not the hottest. After twenty years of new bikes, I've seen their pattern. The next big HD fix will be 2020. Will it be more interim bandaids? I expect more from the big American brand and customers deserve modern engineering. Just my two cents. Thanks again and ride safely.

[darkglide1]

Good info. Thank you. I either do it now or wait 10 months until the warranty runs out. You didn't say this, but from other threads elsewhere, I don't believe using more fuel to cool an engine (xides or tuning) makes much sense. Harley screwed up and used a big hot bandaid until the engine is fully water cooled and the cat relocated further back or one in each pipe further back. When a bike part near a leg or foot is over 450 degrees, the self ignition point of paper, there's something very wrong and dangerous. They made a big deal about Project Rushmore but it's BS. Cooled heads, iffy gps, a vent and an iffy clutch isn't ground breaking or looking out for customers. It's a short term gimmick until they build a bike worth the price tag. If Honda can do it with a Hannigan conversion, HD can do it as well for less. I'm getting to old too be brand loyal. Next time I'm getting the best not the hottest. After twenty years of new bikes, I've seen their pattern. The next big HD fix will be 2020. Will it be more interim bandaids? I expect more from the big American brand and customers deserve modern engineering. Just my two cents. Thanks again and ride safely.

Agreed, I changed mine out on a 2009 CVO RG the first week and never had an issue with the dealer - most dealers I've had experience with used to change them regularly - several in my area actually stocked the non-cat pipe from take-offs and sold them for as little as $50. Without a doubt removing that blockage from right under your feet will relieve some heat however from my experience I didn't notice a huge reduction in heat until I changed the tuning from the overly lean tune - Additionally I do not think one or the other by itself makes a huge difference however doing both will maximize the reduction; my 2 cents and personal experience with an '09 cvo rg, '10 rg, and '10 uc. good luck...

[Shriner Jim]

My 2012 TriGlide is HOT. I did help it by doing a few things. 1) De-cat, 2) XIEDs, 3) Ward's Fans. The catalytic converter removal prevents the heat build-up on your feet and legs. The Wards Fans blow the away (somewhat), preventing the excessive oil temps. My oil temp NEVER exceeds 235 degrees. The hottest point of the engine is the heads, if it gets HOT, the oil gets that hot and runs down and through the oil cooler. The oil cooler doesn't do a very good job. The XIEDs fool the ECU and causes it to run a bit richer, allowing a bit cooler operation. Now it's not real cool but it isn't as blistering hot as it was. The parade mode doesn't kick in anymore and the engine life must be extended if the temps are held under 250 degrees.

[msocko3]

If your wanting it look OEM you can find 2009 non-cvo headpipes; they do not have the cat. You could also just de-cat your headpipe (many how-to post on cvoharley) - not hard, just time consuming and for this no remap is required. Now, you may notice a slight difference in heat reduction but not much - most of the heat is in the HD tune which is on the lean side for epa purposes and why it's a must when when open up the AC. Using any of the major tuners you can correct this; the plug and play tuners enriches the tune to exceptable generic tolerances; other tuners like SERT and closed loop tuners allow you to fine tune.

Check out FullSAC. As for the dealer, from what I've experienced (no offense) most of the techs wouldn't think of looking to confirm unless they were lead to it - those experienced tech's would more than likely smell it . If you're real concerned go talk with service manager.

If a person wants to install an 09 non CVO head pipe on a 2010 and later, they will have to have 12mm O2 sensor bungs welded on in the same location as their present head pipe. The 09 head pipe has 18mm O2 sensor bungs welded close to the exhaust ports which would be a dead give away the head pipe had been changed if installed on a 2010 and later.

[KindaOldTriker]

My dealer removes the cats with a stock pipe swap-out deal for $100 and an hour labor. They say no prob with their warranty.

[Jerry/MD]

I'm gonna be the lone dissenter on this thread and say YES you should remap after removing the CAT. I would think the change in back-pressure alone would make a difference.

Just a bit of history on my opinion: I installed the Fullsac ceramic header on my previous CVO Ultras. The kit included a TTS Master Tune along with a new EFI map. If you compared the new and stock settings you could see some tweaks in the AFR (air fuel ratio) and other parameters. When you change to a free-flowing exhaust the characteristics of the engine change. The stock AFR setting is already on the lean side which helps to increase heat. I would expect that a less restrictive system may make the condition worse.

Just my thoughts on the subject.

Jerry

[usmc68]

Thanks for the input. It's a 2013 with the SE Burst AC and Street Cannon mufflers with a Stage 1 remap. So it seems like swapping the pipes for no CAT pipes will not need a remap. It's funny, a cooler running bike might mess up the warranty :-) Thanks again. For maybe more HP, MPG and a lot less heat, I'll just have to take my chances. Keep the shiny side up!

I decatted my 2012 tri-glide had S.E Airfilter ,stage 1 download , Rush 1"3/4 slipons .Then went on a 1000+mile trip in the smokie mts. engine was still scalding hot and running so lean I was sure it would burn a hole in a piston before I got home . I installed a powercomannder V engine runs cooler , stronger, But it did cost a little gas mileage. Don't ruin a $ 30,000 + machine by being cheap like I was .It costs to cool one down