Tune or Download with A/C and Headpipes.

[y2k_harley]

I visited my local Harley dealer yesterday. While there I found out they were having a 20% off sale on Rush exhaust products. I priced there "economy" line and could get a 2:1:2 head pipes that use the factory heat shields for $239 out the door. They looked like decent quality and salesman stated that for the price they couldn't be beat. I have a Screamin Eagle Ventilator air cleaner on the shelf that I was going to install "someday". So I talked to the service manager about getting a stage one download when they installed the exhaust and A/C. He said the stage one download was not meant for different headpipes without the CAT, the trike would have to be dyno tuned. Of coarse they didn't have a trike dyno so he wanted to do it by trial and error while riding it for around $900. I asked if the download would get me by until I could get it dyno tuned. He pulled up many dyno A/F ratio charts and HP/torque charts stating that for the best power I needed to dyno tune. I told him that I understood that and I basically wanted to make sure if I just did a download, it wouldn't hurt drivablity or durability. He then told me that EVEN IF I DIDN'T MAKE ANY CHANGES TO THE FUEL AND IGNITION MAPS, THE BIKE WOULD NOT SUFFER ANY MECHANICAL ISSUES. Yes I double checked!!! No downloads or tuning and I wouldn't risk any burnt valves or melted pistons or the like and he said YES. I just wouldn't run to its full potential and might run a little hotter. To me it sounds like I should RUN, not walk away from them.

So to me, it sounds like I can just run the factory tune with the headpipes, slip-ons and the SE air cleaner and be fine until I can get it tuned in the future. Another dealership that actually has a trike dyno offers winter discounts on service work so I would like to wait till then and have it done right.

Any thoughts???

[msocko3]

I'd sure run from that dealer. One of the problems with trying to make informed decisions is dealers not knowing the in's and out's of what does and what does not impact warranty, and how to put together a good performance package. Some of the far flung crap I've seen dealers do makes me shake my head at times.

[y2k_harley]

I'd sure run from that dealer. One of the problems with trying to make informed decisions is dealers not knowing the in's and out's of what does and what does not impact warranty, and how to put together a good performance package. Some of the far flung crap I've seen dealers do makes me shake my head at times.

He did say even changing to my Vance and Hines turndown slip ons could affect the warranty. After riding in stop and go traffic the other day and dealing with the intense heat, I knew I had to do something to get rid of some. Contacted Harley themselves and discussed what I can and can't do. Making any changes COULD affect the warranty it those changes caused the issue.

[darkglide1]

I visited my local Harley dealer yesterday. While there I found out they were having a 20% off sale on Rush exhaust products. I priced there "economy" line and could get a 2:1:2 head pipes that use the factory heat shields for $239 out the door. They looked like decent quality and salesman stated that for the price they couldn't be beat. I have a Screamin Eagle Ventilator air cleaner on the shelf that I was going to install "someday". So I talked to the service manager about getting a stage one download when they installed the exhaust and A/C. He said the stage one download was not meant for different headpipes without the CAT, the trike would have to be dyno tuned. Of coarse they didn't have a trike dyno so he wanted to do it by trial and error while riding it for around $900. I asked if the download would get me by until I could get it dyno tuned. He pulled up many dyno A/F ratio charts and HP/torque charts stating that for the best power I needed to dyno tune. I told him that I understood that and I basically wanted to make sure if I just did a download, it wouldn't hurt drivablity or durability. He then told me that EVEN IF I DIDN'T MAKE ANY CHANGES TO THE FUEL AND IGNITION MAPS, THE BIKE WOULD NOT SUFFER ANY MECHANICAL ISSUES. Yes I double checked!!! No downloads or tuning and I wouldn't risk any burnt valves or melted pistons or the like and he said YES. I just wouldn't run to its full potential and might run a little hotter. To me it sounds like I should RUN, not walk away from them.

So to me, it sounds like I can just run the factory tune with the headpipes, slip-ons and the SE air cleaner and be fine until I can get it tuned in the future. Another dealership that actually has a trike dyno offers winter discounts on service work so I would like to wait till then and have it done right.

Any thoughts???

Just a thought, what about a closed loop tuner for auto-tuning. I have a a twintec on on one of my bikes and have been pleased with it. there are a number of these out there, Power Commander Vision, thunderMax, Rc Components, Twin Tec, etc...

At minimum you should get something to enrich you fuel system as HD overly lean tune for epa and opening up the air flow both in and out will increase the lean condition.

From FullSac:
"Fuel injection. ECM remapping and tuning. Closed loop?
More air = more power, right? Not with out maintaining the proper air fuel ratio. The stock ECM will adjust and even learn to compensate for minor air flow improvents made within its “closed loop Range”. Operating in “Closed loop” is when the ECM is receiving and using live data from the intake and exhaust side (02 sensors) of the engine to calculate and maintain precise target AFR. Closed loop operation is primarily active during steady highway cruising. Grab a handful of throttle to pass and you are no longer in closed loop! You are now running on fixed fuel calculations that better be matched to the aftermarket parts you added or your engine will run extremely lean, down on power and begging for fuel.

Stage I summary.
So, if all you did was add some hi flow mufflers behind a restrictive stock cat headpipe to get some rumble, your going to be fine with out remapping the ECM. Add a hi flow AC and remove the cat, you have crossed way over the line and are running seriously lean at heavy throttle. Not recommended unless your willing to ride like Granny at 1/4 throttle and in closed loop everywhere."

[y2k_harley]

I contacted the dealership in the area with a dyno that will handle a trike. He said that the stage one download might or might not be "good enough", but if not they have no way to tweek it to make it right. He said that it need to be dynoed. I asked if I would need to haul it to him and he said that it could be driven the 150 miles. I asked if it could be driven that far, could I put off the dyno until winter and he said as long as I wouldn't be going 10's of thousands of miles I would be fine. I hate to do anything to hurt my trike, but the thought of saving a couple hundred dollars sounds inviting. So both service managers told me that I could ride with the stock tune. Im thinking I will just take it easy this fall and get it dynoed after new years.

[msocko3]

He did say even changing to my Vance and Hines turndown slip ons could affect the warranty. After riding in stop and go traffic the other day and dealing with the intense heat, I knew I had to do something to get rid of some. Contacted Harley themselves and discussed what I can and can't do. Making any changes COULD affect the warranty it those changes caused the issue.

Harley Davidson doesn't even have their act together, I was told the same song and dance from Harley when I was investigating tuners. I contacted Harley and ask what their thoughts on the SEPST, I was told the same as you, it could impact the warranty if those changes caused the issue.

To make a real long story short, when my dad had the rear O2 sensor go bad on his 09 which at the time was 1 year old, things got ugly. The weasel service manager crabbed to the Harley district rep. that we installed SE255 cams and a tuner which kept his technicians from being able to trouble shoot the problem. The Harley rep flagged the power train warranty, it didn't make a lick of difference it was a failed O2 sensor which was found by a different dealers tech, the warranty on the power train was flagged.

[y2k_harley]

I contacted another dealership to get their opinion. They said that with custom headpipes you need a custom tune. They said that they didn't have a trike dyno, but could adapt a tune from a bike. It wouldn't be perfect, but would be way better than stock. I asked about riding it the 120 miles to their dealership and he said absolutely not!! These run lean stock and adding more air would make it worse. SO I guess that I will just keep the parts in the box until I can have it tuned this winter.