Handle bar shaking at low speed with Champion Trike and 4 1/2 degree rake

[Colorado Con]

I just purchased a used 08 GL 1800 in great condition, good tires, it has a Champion solid axel kit, rides great, but at under 30 mph when you hit a rough place in the road it shakes the front end a lot, not enough to take it out of your hand or anything but you sure know it. I have had other trikes and never had this problem, they were not Champions, is this common for the Champion kits?

[cavie]

Yep that is a problem with all trikes. I have a local intersection with many coats of white paint for crosswalks and stop bars. When I make a right turn here it is a real bitch. Must go slow. I try to avoid this intersection if I can. The problem is worse with SA but happens with Independent also to a lesser degree.

[Veritas44]

Yep that is a problem with all trikes.

NOT True

[pcombe]

I'm assuming you have a raked front end and the steering nut is tight enough?

You could add a steering damper?

Check the front tire and run it at full inflation that helps?

Keep your trike in a gear where it is always pulling, lugging the engine can also be the source I have ridden plenty of trikes with that problem.
If you give it the gas and it comes out of the wobble it just may be a question of a learning curve in how you ride?

What you are experiencing is not a problem inherent to a champion kit only.
I have trouble seeing this as a rear kit problem but rather a front end or rider consideration.

My trike will do the same thing at times, try not lugging it first.

[keepinon]

Another consideration may be the steering bearing torque, or type of bearings. Two friends had the steering wobble on their GL1800's @ about 30-40 mph. Both were cured by installing tapered head bearings instead of mother Honda's ball bearings.

The VTX1300 I have had the same problem. Replaced the ball bearings with tapered bearings, the wobble went away.

My Valkyrie, with tapered bearings & 6* rake, has no wobble at any speed.

Just MHO.

[cavie]

I have no cornering issues with any type of smooth surface at any speed. I have fun trying to lite'm up on the corners. Only bumps or potholed corners.

[cavie]

I'm assuming you have a raked front end and the steering nut is tight enough?

You could add a steering damper?

Check the front tire and run it at full inflation that helps?

Keep your trike in a gear where it is always pulling, lugging the engine can also be the source I have ridden plenty of trikes with that problem.
If you give it the gas and it comes out of the wobble it just may be a question of a learning curve in how you ride?


What you are experiencing is not a problem inherent to a champion kit only.
I have trouble seeing this as a rear kit problem but rather a front end or rider consideration.

My trike will do the same thing at times, try not lugging it first.

Agree. My Triglide buddy has the same issue. SA

[JaysGone]

I have a 2010 with a Motor Trike kit and yes I get that wiggle every now and then at slow speed hitting a road smudge or paint strip in my development. It can be disconcerting but not worrisome. I also have a SuperBrace doesn't matter though.
Its never been an issue at speed thankfully.

[msocko3]

NOT True

I don't get it on my 2012 Wing.

[slick rick]

I've had the same problem with a springer until I tightened the neck bearings . I'll agree I don't think it's the kit .

[1800 06 Champion Trike]

I have no problems with my SA Champion Trike.

[vw driver]

My trike has an 80 something Suzuki front end to which I added a VW bug steering damper, absolutely no wobble at any speed under any conditions. $40 at nearly any shop that sells old VW stuff. Of course you will have to make some mounting brackets but it's worth the trouble.

[pcombe]

Do you even own a trike?

If you only knew the full story?

Please believe me,There is a world of experience behind the man!

I'm not trying to belittle you, I'm really not!

- - - Updated - - -

My trike has an 80 something Suzuki front end to which I added a VW bug steering damper, absolutely no wobble at any speed under any conditions. $40 at nearly any shop that sells old VW stuff. Of course you will have to make some mounting brackets but it's worth the trouble.

Tell me more about that damper?

[vw driver]

What's to tell? It's a steering damper, it eliminates wobbles. Basically it's a shock absorber that minimizes lateral vibration.

[msocko3]

If you only knew the full story?

Please believe me,There is a world of experience behind the man!

You hit the nail right on the head, not to mention he's one heck of a nice guy. I've had the pleasure of meeting him in person.

[pcombe]

What's to tell? It's a steering damper, it eliminates wobbles. Basically it's a shock absorber that minimizes lateral vibration.

I guess I just never thought of Volkswagen using a damper, I have considered putting a damper on my old tour glide but haven't seriously looked into it because the head shake issue is really nothing more than a nuisance?

Always looking to be educated to possibilities. Thanks

[triwinggirl]

this is normal you are pushing the factory front end to hard with the conversion. the goldwing front end just was not made for this much work.

stabilizer will help but it will always do this stop letting go of the handle bars and build those big strong muscles holding it still. I did.

don't tell me that this mere girl is stronger?

[Veritas44]

"Head-Shake" (Steering Wobble, etc... whatever you wanna "name" it) is caused by or greatly exacerbated by the newly reformed Unit having Geometry Issues.

*when and if all other possible causes have been checked and eliminated as Causes-see the "*" below



With the Front end being the simplest, the lightest, non-powered and driven by the Powered end, and most importantly it is acting as the "Rudder" for the Unit, that is where the Results/Effects of the Geometric Shortcomings will manifest and be noticed.

What has been added to the Unit (Trike/Side Car/etc.) and its inherent Designs and how they interact/affect the existing Geometry (which was correct for the original Unit prior to mod) will determine the extent and extreme of the Issues manifestation. In this Case and discussion-The dreaded Head-Shake or Wobble. When you change the Rear and do not change the Front to match those modifications-You get Problems. Going from a Linear Unit to a Triangular (whether symmetrical Trike or asymmetrical Sidecar) one without changing the singular front point leaves the Unit in conflict with itself. Thus the "Twitch" (or mechanical "seizures" depending on how bad out-a-whack the new Unit is) as it battles itself trying to accommodate the new Forces affecting the Triangle set in motion.

In most cases, correcting/modifying the Front Geometry with a Corrected set of Triple Trees (aka "Rake Kit") will eliminate or danged near get rid of the Issue's (or the possibility thereof if done initially) manifestation by bringing the new Unit's overall geometric Dynamic inline and in concert with the Rear changes/additions. The "Wobble" can still occur every now and then when that weakest or most prone to the Effects (the Front) encounters a shock like hitting bumps, potholes, etc.

But for the most part, unless pretty severe instances, it should not and when it does the Effects should subside quickly enough as to be negligible.

IF it does not, the Geometry is still out of whack even with the Front being "mated" to the Rear as close as humanly/mechanically possible.

THEN the only thing left to do is deal with the Effects as the Cause cannot be truly eliminated.

There are some Units where this is unavoidable due to the Design shortcomings and/or the original Unit at the core not being well suited for the conversion/modification performed upon it.

'Nuff said and I won't go into that any deeper.

When the later of the above is the case the only way to best address the Issue is the addition of the Steering Damper. This is most common (about 50% of the time) in Sidecar Rigs. However, it does occur in Trikes in some situations as well.

Some more usual than others-Some very rarely if at all. Again, Nuff said bout that.

A Steering Damper is nothing more than a horizontal "shock absorber" mounted to the point of manifestation and the most solid and non-moving/static point of the Unit. Think of it as a hydraulic closing Arm on a Storm Door. That's pretty much all it is. This Damper assumes/absorbs the Forces that are inflicted upon the Front that cause the Shake/Wobble/Twitch/Seizure so they are not felt or translated on up through the Front Assembly. In this Case-The Bars and the Steering.

The Down-side or "Con" to the Steering Damper (most times when Treating Effects as opposed to solving Causes we normally get equal or worse ramifications) is that once in place, the Damper is constantly working and therefore acting at all times against the Steering/Front Assembly. In a Trike/Sidecar situation where the Bars are being pushed and pulled the Damper is always being employed as well.

This makes ALL Steering more difficult by requiring more physical input to accomplish the Steering. So, in treating the Wobble Effects of the incorrect Geometry we are also creating new Cause(s) of other Issues.

Due to the above, when evaluating the situation and deciding on Steering Damper Yes or No; you really need to weigh the Pros & Cons against the level or severity of the Need carefully.

Such as: Is it only at low speed (15-18 mph speed only)? high speed (from 45-65 mph)? All speeds?

What "window" of occurance? 3-5 mph or a 20 mph window?

Only when encountering bumps, divots, obstacles? Go away quickly or last and or increase in severity?

and so on...

*One thing to be sure is that all other Courses of Action have been checked, addressed, and implemented first. As others have already said,,,,

Check Head-Nut Torque (go a tad above "Norm" but careful not to over-tighten and become unsafe)

Check Wheel Bearings, Tire Balance and psi.

Seriously consider modified Triple Trees if not already installed or if so they may not be the correct Angle for your Unit (no "Cookie-Cutter" "One Size Fits All" angle correction for all Bikes or Trike Brands). This possible Solution also has other Positive Effects not Wobble related and well worth it.

Several more that have been discussed here and elsewhere just about as often as Tires and mounting Orientations.

Lots to consider and think about.

In the end,,,,

It Does NOT occur in All Trikes or Units.

It Does NOT always "need" to be corrected/addressed.

Steering Dampers are NOT a Panacea or End-All.

[pcombe]

"Head-Shake" (Steering Wobble, etc... whatever you wanna "name" it) is caused by or greatly exacerbated by the newly reformed Unit having Geometry Issues.

*when and if all other possible causes have been checked and eliminated as Causes-see the "*" below



With the Front end being the simplest, the lightest, non-powered and driven by the Powered end, and most importantly it is acting as the "Rudder" for the Unit, that is where the Results/Effects of the Geometric Shortcomings will manifest and be noticed.

What has been added to the Unit (Trike/Side Car/etc.) and its inherent Designs and how they interact/affect the existing Geometry (which was correct for the original Unit prior to mod) will determine the extent and extreme of the Issues manifestation. In this Case and discussion-The dreaded Head-Shake or Wobble. When you change the Rear and do not change the Front to match those modifications-You get Problems. Going from a Linear Unit to a Triangular (whether symmetrical Trike or asymmetrical Sidecar) one without changing the singular front point leaves the Unit in conflict with itself. Thus the "Twitch" (or mechanical "seizures" depending on how bad out-a-whack the new Unit is) as it battles itself trying to accommodate the new Forces affecting the Triangle set in motion.

In most cases, correcting/modifying the Front Geometry with a Corrected set of Triple Trees (aka "Rake Kit") will eliminate or danged near get rid of the Issue's (or the possibility thereof if done initially) manifestation by bringing the new Unit's overall geometric Dynamic inline and in concert with the Rear changes/additions. The "Wobble" can still occur every now and then when that weakest or most prone to the Effects (the Front) encounters a shock like hitting bumps, potholes, etc.

But for the most part, unless pretty severe instances, it should not and when it does the Effects should subside quickly enough as to be negligible.

IF it does not, the Geometry is still out of whack even with the Front being "mated" to the Rear as close as humanly/mechanically possible.

THEN the only thing left to do is deal with the Effects as the Cause cannot be truly eliminated.

There are some Units where this is unavoidable due to the Design shortcomings and/or the original Unit at the core not being well suited for the conversion/modification performed upon it.

'Nuff said and I won't go into that any deeper.

When the later of the above is the case the only way to best address the Issue is the addition of the Steering Damper. This is most common (about 50% of the time) in Sidecar Rigs. However, it does occur in Trikes in some situations as well.

Some more usual than others-Some very rarely if at all. Again, Nuff said bout that.

A Steering Damper is nothing more than a horizontal "shock absorber" mounted to the point of manifestation and the most solid and non-moving/static point of the Unit. Think of it as a hydraulic closing Arm on a Storm Door. That's pretty much all it is. This Damper assumes/absorbs the Forces that are inflicted upon the Front that cause the Shake/Wobble/Twitch/Seizure so they are not felt or translated on up through the Front Assembly. In this Case-The Bars and the Steering.

The Down-side or "Con" to the Steering Damper (most times when Treating Effects as opposed to solving Causes we normally get equal or worse ramifications) is that once in place, the Damper is constantly working and therefore acting at all times against the Steering/Front Assembly. In a Trike/Sidecar situation where the Bars are being pushed and pulled the Damper is always being employed as well.

This makes ALL Steering more difficult by requiring more physical input to accomplish the Steering. So, in treating the Wobble Effects of the incorrect Geometry we are also creating new Cause(s) of other Issues.

Due to the above, when evaluating the situation and deciding on Steering Damper Yes or No; you really need to weigh the Pros & Cons against the level or severity of the Need carefully.

Such as: Is it only at low speed (15-18 mph speed only)? high speed (from 45-65 mph)? All speeds?

What "window" of occurance? 3-5 mph or a 20 mph window?

Only when encountering bumps, divots, obstacles? Go away quickly or last and or increase in severity?

and so on...

*One thing to be sure is that all other Courses of Action have been checked, addressed, and implemented first. As others have already said,,,,

Check Head-Nut Torque (go a tad above "Norm" but careful not to over-tighten and become unsafe)

Check Wheel Bearings, Tire Balance and psi.

Seriously consider modified Triple Trees if not already installed or if so they may not be the correct Angle for your Unit (no "Cookie-Cutter" "One Size Fits All" angle correction for all Bikes or Trike Brands). This possible Solution also has other Positive Effects not Wobble related and well worth it.

Several more that have been discussed here and elsewhere just about as often as Tires and mounting Orientations.

Lots to consider and think about.

In the end,,,,

It Does NOT occur in All Trikes or Units.

It Does NOT always "need" to be corrected/addressed.

Steering Dampers are NOT a Panacea or End-All.

What he Said? engineering's correct!

Keep it simple,Try not lugging the engine first! If it aint broke don't fix it!( told you he had experience)

As for trikes? I wish he would give me one of his cast offs!

The same applies to my friend ABBA, the man builds beauty in motion.

[slick rick]

YEP