Rake kit question

[ferg]

Okay everyone, be gentle, I have zero experience with a rake. So my question is, is the main function of the rake to extend the front tire to improve steering or to raise the front to level it and shift more weight to the rear?
My trike is being built and I did not order the rake. I currently have monotubes on the front, which raised the front. The tech that put them on said I would probably not need a rake due to the monotubes.
I read here where some talk about rake kits and some about fork extensions. I'm sure they are probably related, but how?
Thanks in advance
ferg

[Veritas44]

That "Tech" is woefully Incorrect....

Furthermore, the "backbone" of the Bike and subsequent Trike needs to be OEM level.

[mhgoldwing]

Installing a rake kit is like adding power steering. Depending on which kit the rake is generally 4.5, 5.5, or 6 degrees; usually the longer wheelbase trikes get the greater rake. My Roadsmith has a 6 degree.

[Gold Rush]

I read here where some talk about rake kits and some about fork extensions. I'm sure they are probably related, but how?
Thanks in advance
ferg

Mornin' Ferg. Welcome to Trike Talk. The fork extensions usually come with the rake kit along with tapered steering head bearings. The purpose of the extension is to restore level ride height. When the rake is extended that results in the frontend dropping so by adding an extension that effect is reversed.

[Solidbob]

So the real answer there Ferg is 1. It makes your steering with the tapered bearings more like power steering, it is needed!! 2. The mono tubes are really built for the Goldwing in bike confriguation and do raise the front because of the increased spring tension. Many installers do not know much about them and yours sounds like one that has never installed them on a trike as with the rake kit fork extensions are used to correct the geometry and bring the front end further up or back close to level. 3. Maybe need to locate an installer that is familar with installing complete kits and not just the parts he's comfortable with.... would make me leary. Maybe contact the kit manufacturer about a different installer in your area. Just because they say their an installer doesn't make it so. Depending on which kit your installing that may make for some very tired arms and upper body without the rake kit... also ask the mfgr. what degree kit they would recommend.... short wheelbase trikes a 4.5 is fine the longer you get the more rake... my Roadsmith is 5.5 and I'm very pleased and never get tired. Hope that sheds some light....FYI

[Mick]

[skuuter]

GREAT Chart....Thanks for the Contribution...Yes, the purpose of a Rake Kit on Trikes is to reduce the amount of Trail to quicken the Steering and make Them steer Lighter. It also reduces "headshake" at lower speeds and when going over irregular surfaces.....

[tfdeputydawg]

Progressive does not recommend mono-tubes for trikes. The extended fork caps that are used w/rake kits will not fit the mono-tubes without tubes being modified as they come w/caps already installed.
Also, modifying the tubes will void their warranty.
Having said that there are several out there that have put the monotubes on their trikes anyway and I've only read of one person having a problem with a tube lock up so far.

[pcombe]

That "Tech" is woefully Incorrect....

Furthermore, the "backbone" of the Bike and subsequent Trike needs to be OEM level.

Care to expand on the answer my friend? You got to much savvy to keep it to yourself!

[Veritas44]

Care to expand on the answer my friend? You got to much savvy to keep it to yourself!

No need my Brother.
Done so in copious detail couple times in the past (as have others) should the OP choose to use the Search Function graciously supplied by the Forum Owner (but like the Maytag Repairman-rarely used).

However, for you my Friend, once more into the Breach

"Rake Kit" (by all it's Brand Labels) or modified set of Triple Trees (as pertains to the GL) is absolutely and inarguably necessary for a Bike converted to a Trike. It is NOT simply to make the steering easier. That is a nice side effect of the Primary Purpose which is to correct the overall Geometry and Operational Dynamic of the modified Unit.
There is NO Blanket or Cookie-Cutter answer as to degree of increase.
Tube Extensions ARE necessary to return the Backbone of the modified Unit to proper level.
OEM Springs ARE inadequate post-conversion (to each his own on the "proper" mod to correct)
Tapered Head Bearings ARE needed and required.
Fork Braces (Superbrace et al) ARE desirable, a marked improvement, and serve a valid function.
Modifying the Risers (again, to each his own on which) to correct and individualize the Ergonomics of hand positioning for Control & Comfort aren't a "requirement" but damned close.

For the Paul Harvey rest of the Story,,,, Upper Right Corner Area of the Header on every Page:
"Advanced Search"

[pcombe]

No need my Brother.
Done so in copious detail couple times in the past (as have others) should the OP choose to use the Search Function graciously supplied by the Forum Owner (but like the Maytag Repairman-rarely used).

However, for you my Friend, once more into the Breach

"Rake Kit" (by all it's Brand Labels) or modified set of Triple Trees (as pertains to the GL) is absolutely and inarguably necessary for a Bike converted to a Trike. It is NOT simply to make the steering easier. That is a nice side effect of the Primary Purpose which is to correct the overall Geometry and Operational Dynamic of the modified Unit.
There is NO Blanket or Cookie-Cutter answer as to degree of increase.
Tube Extensions ARE necessary to return the Backbone of the modified Unit to proper level.
OEM Springs ARE inadequate post-conversion (to each his own on the "proper" mod to correct)
Tapered Head Bearings ARE needed and required.
Fork Braces (Superbrace et al) ARE desirable, a marked improvement, and serve a valid function.
Modifying the Risers (again, to each his own on which) to correct and individualize the Ergonomics of hand positioning for Control & Comfort aren't a "requirement" but damned close.

For the Paul Harvey rest of the Story,,,, Upper Right Corner Area of the Header on every Page:
"Advanced Search"

Atta boy amigo, nobody explains it better than you and the search feature holds a wealth of information that isn't readily seen on the forum.
Thank you for your time.

[ferg]

These posts are helping me to understand. My previous thoughts of rake kits and extensions was flawed, but now more questions are stirring.
If OEM springs are not acceptable, what other springs are there besides Progressive and Traxxion?
Are the trike manufacturers the only ones that make the rake kits?
Thanks for all the help everyone.

[pcombe]

These posts are helping me to understand. My previous thoughts of rake kits and extensions was flawed, but now more questions are stirring.
If OEM springs are not acceptable, what other springs are there besides Progressive and Traxxion?
Are the trike manufacturers the only ones that make the rake kits?
Thanks for all the help everyone.

Everyone has an opinion or a favorite but here is my two cents worth.

The Hog Halter raked triple tree I bought from Zook came with 2" extensions for the tubes to level out my bike ok?
Incorporated into the 2" extensions are a plug that made up for the gap between the springs and the bottom of my tube extensions therefore allowing me to use my stock springs and they work just fine.

The trees come with the proper conical bearings and races, mine is a 5 degree and with the natural 4 degree rake of my old glide it all works out to a 9 degree rake and is far more responsive than by buddies tri-glide.

My old tour glide is a fltcu and the springs are plenty heavy enough to handle what's thrown at it.
There is a possibility that different springs may make it ride a little more gentle but I can still use the air suspension that came with it to adjust to different riding if I want to. I normally don't mess with it. just put about 5-7 lbs. air pressure and leave it alone.
of course you must understand that the old glides came with an anti dive system wich have since been eliminated but I made some one off parts in the garage that allowed me to keep it.



The extensions screw into the top of my fork legs and in turn screw into the upper triple tree so there is no chance of miss-aligning the forks as there was with the (pinch type) stock upper tree. they are never put in more than hand tight so put away the pipe wrench ok?
I could place a preload on the neck bearings from the center of the lower tree with a socket and torque wrench, It is also set up to mount my original brake line in the same bolt.
Notice that I don't even have the upper head nut on the front end yet, that came after I assembled the rest of the front end. The lower tree is a pinch type but far exceeds the stock trees ability's. The instructions are complete and easily followed along with pictures that us male critters need to make our brains function.

Trust me it's not as scary or complicated as it might seem.
PM Zook and tell him what your bike is and allow him to do the math on the deal, install it and enjoy.

[ferg]

These posts are very interesting. Lots of info.
I pick up my trike tomorrow, so I can start learning how to drive it. Been reading up on that too.
Anyway, Zook recommends a 4.5 degree rake which I will go with. I contacted an installer and all I hear from him is 6 degree, but I'm going with Zook's advice. It makes perfect sense to me, due to the shorter length. First, I've got to get it home and decide if I want to attempt the rake kit installation. I probably won't so I"ll need an installer. Anybody know of a good one around Lafayette,La?
Thanks to all that took the time to help me out.
Ferg

[FuzzyWuzHe]

Trust me it's not as scary or complicated as it might seem.
PM Zook and tell him what your bike is and allow him to do the math on the deal, install it and enjoy

I gotta admit, I'd like a rake kit, but taking the entire front faring and forks off, does scare me a little. Mostly the electrical ... there be a certified butt load of wires in there. But I keep reading these posts and building the courage to do it.

[Papa Zook]

These posts are very interesting. Lots of info.
I pick up my trike tomorrow, so I can start learning how to drive it. Been reading up on that too.
Anyway, Zook recommends a 4.5 degree rake which I will go with. I contacted an installer and all I hear from him is 6 degree, but I'm going with Zook's advice. It makes perfect sense to me, due to the shorter length. First, I've got to get it home and decide if I want to attempt the rake kit installation. I probably won't so I"ll need an installer. Anybody know of a good one around Lafayette,La?
Thanks to all that took the time to help me out.
Ferg

Trust me...the 4.5 is what you want for your trike.

[pcombe]

I gotta admit, I'd like a rake kit, but taking the entire front faring and forks off, does scare me a little. Mostly the electrical ... there be a certified butt load of wires in there. But I keep reading these posts and building the courage to do it.

Fuzzy, me and everyone else on the forum who has built their own will recommend you have the motor manual in your hands for reference on such things as torque values and electrical schematics, even the hardness factors of some bolts, original tightness of the stem nut etc. don't try it until you have it ok?
Do yourself a favor and take lots of disassembly pictures as you go and get lots of wiring markers, a small notebook to write things down in. Get some yellow and some red tape. If there is something that will require particular attention on wiring and such wrap some yellow tape around it and mark it with a #1 etc etc. to remind yourself to check the notebook for your notes marked #1 etc.etc.

use the red tape to remind yourself where some particular wire was routed or some particular relay was mounted or where a circuit breaker was placed and draw a picture of it in your notebook with numbered illustrations?

If you approach this with idiot proofing in mind it will save you from being an idiot, Trust an idiots advice ok? Make sense of the rats nest during diss-assembly. write down in your note book which side a particular wire went up into the console etc. This not a race take your time.

The instructions from the Hog Halter Tree I got were very easy to follow with lots of illustrations, You may scratch your head a little once in a while because you just may be overthinking things?

When I started taking my console apart with all the wiring my buddy said that was where he would chicken out but you know something?
He wasn't taking it apart and seeing how idiot proof I was making it.

was it easy? No, I wont lie to you I had a hell of allot of disassembly on my old tour glide before I could even get to it.
It was harder and took more time than the entire rear conversion.

Go over to my photobucket and check it out?

goggle-pcombe photobucket/library

[msocko3]

These posts are very interesting. Lots of info.
I pick up my trike tomorrow, so I can start learning how to drive it. Been reading up on that too.
Anyway, Zook recommends a 4.5 degree rake which I will go with. I contacted an installer and all I hear from him is 6 degree, but I'm going with Zook's advice. It makes perfect sense to me, due to the shorter length. First, I've got to get it home and decide if I want to attempt the rake kit installation. I probably won't so I"ll need an installer. Anybody know of a good one around Lafayette,La?
Thanks to all that took the time to help me out.
Ferg

If Zook says 4.5, you can take it to the bank he'll be right on the money.

[ferg]

4.5 for me. I don't think I'm going to attempt the install, though. $225 to install sounds pretty good to me.

[Papa Zook]

$225 is a deal. Most shops wouldnt do it for that.