SE tuner questions

[Springman2007]

Ok disregard my last question. After rereading the directions over and over,I realized I wasn't r turning the run stop switch to run. Got the map loaded so hopefully the rain will stop so I can test ride.
I called a buddy at Harley and told him what I have. He said go with the*044SBN004 to start.

Good to hear your up and ready to go!

The 044SBN004.dt0 map file hardware component notes are:
Application: 2010-2013 Touring
Configuration: 1690 Stage 2 with SE 255 cams

Components:
- SE Air Cleaner or Heavy Breather Kit
- SE Big Bore Cylinders
- SE-255 Cams
- SE Exhaust

for 2013 Touring model.​

But, note that 1690cc is equivalent to 103 c.i.d.So, is really saying its for a 103, stage 2 motor with SE 255 cams.


Springman

 

[dafoot2]

Well after finally getting a decent day and no work. I hook up the se tuner and set to record. Get it warmed it and start the record. That map isn't the right one ih guess. The trike was barely rideable. Backfire on acceleration, running hot, wouldn't even idle. Even died at the stop light. Couldn't keep it running at idle unless I blipped the throttle. Didn't get out to far luckily. Any kind of acceleration I got hesitation and backfiring.*

Looking at the specs of that map,I should be close. Not sure what the deal was. Even pulled the tuner off before I got home, thinking maybe a bad connection or something.

I'm stumped.

Good to hear your up and ready to go!

The 044SBN004.dt0 map file hardware component notes are:
Application: 2010-2013 Touring
Configuration: 1690 Stage 2 with SE 255 cams

Components:
- SE Air Cleaner or Heavy Breather Kit
- SE Big Bore Cylinders
- SE-255 Cams
- SE Exhaust

for 2013 Touring model.​

But, note that 1690cc is equivalent to 103 c.i.d.So, is really saying its for a 103, stage 2 motor with SE 255 cams.


Springman

 

[msocko3]

Well after finally getting a decent day and no work. I hook up the se tuner and set to record. Get it warmed it and start the record. That map isn't the right one ih guess. The trike was barely rideable. Backfire on acceleration, running hot, wouldn't even idle. Even died at the stop light. Couldn't keep it running at idle unless I blipped the throttle. Didn't get out to far luckily. Any kind of acceleration I got hesitation and backfiring.*
Looking at the specs of that map,I should be close. Not sure what the deal was. Even pulled the tuner off before I got home, thinking maybe a bad connection or something.

I'm stumped.

Was it backfiring out the exhaust or the throttle body?

 

[Springman2007]

Well after finally getting a decent day and no work. I hook up the se tuner and set to record. Get it warmed it and start the record. That map isn't the right one ih guess. The trike was barely rideable. Backfire on acceleration, running hot, wouldn't even idle. Even died at the stop light. Couldn't keep it running at idle unless I blipped the throttle. Didn't get out to far luckily. Any kind of acceleration I got hesitation and backfiring.*
Looking at the specs of that map,I should be close. Not sure what the deal was. Even pulled the tuner off before I got home, thinking maybe a bad connection or something.

I'm stumped.

I think you and I are on different paths. I was seeking an initial baseline calibration file to use with the TTS-100 cam for use in tuning my FLRT on a Dyno, by a place like Roeders Racing - NOT using it as a baseline calibration to attempt open road, smart tuning.

I would suspect that the 044SBN004.dt0 map file is NOT close enough to the TTS-100's actual performance requirements to "tweak" like that.

However, 044SBN004.dt0 map file could/would possible provide a professional tuner with a Dyno, a closer initial base to start their tuning over say the stock or even a stage 1 initial calibration. Since no actual TTS-100 calibration file exists.

But, since you have already flashed your trike; and, have decided to smart tune it on your own, maybe it may be best for you to start with a simple stage 1 calibration - see if that makes the trike less problematic for running your data logging on the road from there....

I also want to say something else here. I have seen one guy I know smart tune his bike on the open road himself - with FANTASTIC results. But, I also have to tell you that the whole process took 37 data recording sessions over the course of most of a summer...... I praise his efforts; but, I rather just spend the money and have it done - by a good tuner shop - just me.

Springman

 

[dafoot2]

Was it backfiring out the exhaust or the throttle body?

Exhaust

- - - Updated - - -

Yea I may need to try start with a stage 1. Problem around here is the closet dyno is almost two hours away. I was hoping to try and smart tune myself, 37 runs would not be a good thing. I will try and use a stage one and start from there. Maybe at least to get it rideable to possible ride it to the dyno.

I think you and I are on different paths. I was seeking an initial baseline calibration file to use with the TTS-100 cam for use in tuning my FLRT on a Dyno, by a place like Roeders Racing - NOT using it as a baseline calibration to attempt open road, smart tuning.

I would suspect that the 044SBN004.dt0 map file is NOT close enough to the TTS-100's actual performance requirements to "tweak" like that.

However, 044SBN004.dt0 map file could/would possible provide a professional tuner with a Dyno, a closer initial base to start their tuning over say the stock or even a stage 1 initial calibration. Since no actual TTS-100 calibration file exists.

But, since you have already flashed your trike; and, have decided to smart tune it on your own, maybe it may be best for you to start with a simple stage 1 calibration - see if that makes the trike less problematic for running your data logging on the road from there....

I also want to say something else here. I have seen one guy I know smart tune his bike on the open road himself - with FANTASTIC results. But, I also have to tell you that the whole process took 37 data recording sessions over the course of most of a summer...... I praise his efforts; but, I rather just spend the money and have it done - by a good tuner shop - just me.

Springman

 

[msocko3]

Exhaust

Is it blubbering and smelling kind of rich? I'm thinking you have fuel and timing issues. The Stage 1 map may be your best bet for a starting map. Now if someone has a TTS map for those cams, and for the same MY. One might be able to build a decent starting map using the TTS map to copy and paste some of the tables to the SEPST map.

If someone has a TTS map, I'd be happy to look at it and see if I could put together something for you.

 

[Springman2007]

Is it blubbering and smelling kind of rich? I'm thinking you have fuel and timing issues. The Stage 1 map may be your best bet for a starting map. Now if someone has a TTS map for those cams, and for the same MY. One might be able to build a decent starting map using the TTS map to copy and paste some of the tables to the SEPST map.

If someone has a TTS map, I'd be happy to look at it and see if I could put together something for you.

I have to confess, I am sort of curious as to what his trike is like, just starting with a stage 1 map? But, that aside, I would like to see this issue resolved quickly so our friend can once again concentrate on enjoying his ride......

Also, I forgot to say that my friend spoke of possibly using a software app called "MyTune" to aid in dialing in your VE tables - I don't know much about this program. But, I wanted to pass it on - given the situation.

Best Wishes,

Springman

 

[dafoot2]

Is it blubbering and smelling kind of rich? I'm thinking you have fuel and timing issues. The Stage 1 map may be your best bet for a starting map. Now if someone has a TTS map for those cams, and for the same MY. One might be able to build a decent starting map using the TTS map to copy and paste some of the tables to the SEPST map.

If someone has a TTS map, I'd be happy to look at it and see if I could put together something for you.

yea guess I did have some blubbering. kinda had a few moments when it almost sound like just one cylinder was working when it was going to die out.
TTS was no help, the guy I talked to said he doesn't have knowledge of the sert and said start with the 255 cam, but that got me nowhere.

I had some time this morning to play around and ended up finding a stage 1 map. I attached the picture.The map was for a 96 in but I went into the map and changed displacement to a 103in. I also turned the ACR back to enabled. I took a few rides and got some smaller records. It did change a few values. The rain returned so no more runs. It ran pretty good with that map. Im sure I wasn't getting the full use out of the upgrades.

I got into the program to load the runs onto and generate the new map but wasn't able to ride because of rain.

I was wondering, I know that I can change the engine displacement of the map in the settting. So does that tell the ecm that its a 103 I have? Also I see no setting for the cams. does the smarttune see that the cam is different and adjust the values?

New to this but trying to learn.

Map I used to start 044AAG003

 

[Springman2007]

So does that tell the ecm that its a 103 I have? Also I see no setting for the cams. does the smarttune see that the cam is different and adjust the values? Map I used to start 044AAG003

Actually, I don't think the ECM even cares about displacement - directly. What I mean is that the ECM reads the loaded map file information and responds accordingly.... So, the better question would be: How does a change in displacement or engine size impact the map file; and, the values of the tables therein? Since I am really not more experienced than you at tuning (in fact, you are sort of leading me at this point) I think this is a question I will leave to another at this point......

Springman

PS - dafoot2 - Again, Thank you for sharing your info and experiences - and map file info......

 

[msocko3]

yea guess I did have some blubbering. kinda had a few moments when it almost sound like just one cylinder was working when it was going to die out.
TTS was no help, the guy I talked to said he doesn't have knowledge of the sert and said start with the 255 cam, but that got me nowhere.

I had some time this morning to play around and ended up finding a stage 1 map. I attached the picture.The map was for a 96 in but I went into the map and changed displacement to a 103in. I also turned the ACR back to enabled. I took a few rides and got some smaller records. It did change a few values. The rain returned so no more runs. It ran pretty good with that map. Im sure I wasn't getting the full use out of the upgrades.

I got into the program to load the runs onto and generate the new map but wasn't able to ride because of rain.

I was wondering, I know that I can change the engine displacement of the map in the settting. So does that tell the ecm that its a 103 I have? Also I see no setting for the cams. does the smarttune see that the cam is different and adjust the values?

New to this but trying to learn.

Map I used to start 044AAG003

I'd start with 044AAO003, this is the Stage 1 map for 2010 - 2013 1690 displacement. The blubbering is a rich spot and the backfiring was the richness and to late of timing causing some of the combustion to take place when the exhaust valve was opening. I'd stick with the Stage 1 map as a start and tune from there.

I can understand the folks at TTS not having much understanding of the SEPST, they didn't make it and I'm sure have never used it.

Speaking of displacement changes in a map, sometimes you can just bump the displacement and all will work out. Other times a closer map is better, there are things in some of these maps which go on behind the scenes, we can't see them.

- - - Updated - - -

Actually, I don't think the ECM even cares about displacement - directly. What I mean is that the ECM reads the loaded map file information and responds accordingly.... So, the better question would be: How does a change in displacement or engine size impact the map file; and, the values of the tables therein? Since I am really not more experienced than you at tuning (in fact, you are sort of leading me at this point) I think this is a question I will leave to another at this point......

Springman

PS - dafoot2 - Again, Thank you for sharing your info and experiences - and map file info......

For the most part the ECM doesn't care, however there are sometimes things behind the scenes which take place we can't see.

 

[dafoot2]

Ok I'll scrap the map I was using and go with the map you suggested. Reading the components of the 044AAO003, it shows flat top Pistons and a part number, would that have negative effects? I know the big bore cylinders just charged it to a103, but I think that's why I skipped that one I know the acr can be enabled but figured the Pistons strong couldn't be changed.

If I remember right when I first got the new cam and called TTS he was going to email me the current map. But then I told him that I was using the sert and he said it won't work. Maybe I can have him email to me anyway and I can forward it to you.

I'd start with 044AAO003, this is the Stage 1 map for 2010 - 2013 1690 displacement. The blubbering is a rich spot and the backfiring was the richness and to late of timing causing some of the combustion to take place when the exhaust valve was opening. I'd stick with the Stage 1 map as a start and tune from there.

I can understand the folks at TTS not having much understanding of the SEPST, they didn't make it and I'm sure have never used it.

Speaking of displacement changes in a map, sometimes you can just bump the displacement and all will work out. Other times a closer map is better, there are things in some of these maps which go on behind the scenes, we can't see them.

- - - Updated - - -



For the most part the ECM doesn't care, however there are sometimes things behind the scenes which take place we can't see.

 

[msocko3]

Ok I'll scrap the map I was using and go with the map you suggested. Reading the components of the 044AAO003, it shows flat top Pistons and a part number, would that have negative effects? I know the big bore cylinders just charged it to a103, but I think that's why I skipped that one I know the acr can be enabled but figured the Pistons strong couldn't be changed.

If I remember right when I first got the new cam and called TTS he was going to email me the current map. But then I told him that I was using the sert and he said it won't work. Maybe I can have him email to me anyway and I can forward it to you.

Essentially all the factory 103's are is SE flat top pistons in a 3.75 bore. Sometimes HD's map components can make things confusing for people. All those components are in your engine, the ACR thing is because some folks took a 96" engine and increased it to 103 with those components, the 96 doesn't come with ACR's. As you know the factory built 103 does.

If you can get your hand on a TTS map for those cams and your trike I would be interested in looking at it. I have software for TTS, SPST, PV, and even the PCV & PCIII, I've tuned with all except the PV.

 

[dafoot2]

Essentially all the factory 103's are is SE flat top pistons in a 3.75 bore. Sometimes HD's map components can make things confusing for people. All those components are in your engine, the ACR thing is because some folks took a 96" engine and increased it to 103 with those components, the 96 doesn't come with ACR's. As you know the factory built 103 does.

If you can get your hand on a TTS map for those cams and your trike I would be interested in looking at it. I have software for TTS, SPST, PV, and even the PCV & PCIII, I've tuned with all except the PV.

Just got off the phone with TTS again. He said that Wizard has the map for TTS as he has installed it. And had good results. He took my number and is going to make some calls to some Harley shops that installed this and had good results and see what they ended up using. Im guessing he frequents this forum because he mentioned wizard and he also thought that you had this cam setup and had the map already when I mentioned your screenname.

he is supposed to call me tomorrow if he gets any info. Im gonna hold off changing the map again til I hear from him.

 

[msocko3]

Just got off the phone with TTS again. He said that Wizard has the map for TTS as he has installed it. And had good results. He took my number and is going to make some calls to some Harley shops that installed this and had good results and see what they ended up using. Im guessing he frequents this forum because he mentioned wizard and
he also thought that you had this cam setup and had the map already when I mentioned your screenname.

he is supposed to call me tomorrow if he gets any info. Im gonna hold off changing the map again til I hear from him.

I wish I had the map, I know Wiz has a map. I've been trying not to bother him since he has enough on his plate. It sounds like you must have talked to Steve Cole, he's the man behind TTS. He knows Wiz because they talk on the phone quite a bit. If you can't come up with anything let me know, I'll then shoot Wiz an email to get my hands on the map.

 

[Springman2007]

I wish I had the map, I know Wiz has a map. I've been trying not to bother him since he has enough on his plate. It sounds like you must have talked to Steve Cole, he's the man behind TTS. He knows Wiz because they talk on the phone quite a bit. If you can't come up with anything let me know, I'll then shoot Wiz an email to get my hands on the map.

Hey, I would be interested in obtaining a copy of this map as well. Please.

Springman

 

[dafoot2]

I wish I had the map, I know Wiz has a map. I've been trying not to bother him since he has enough on his plate. It sounds like you must have talked to Steve Cole, he's the man behind TTS. He knows Wiz because they talk on the phone quite a bit. If you can't come up with anything let me know, I'll then shoot Wiz an email to get my hands on the map.

Never heard back from TTS, guessing he either forgot or didn't find out any information.

 

[msocko3]

That the TTS map combined for the sert with the tts100?*If it is I'll try and load it tomorrow, raining get today

Yes it is, it should get you close so you can smart tune it the rest of the way. Let me know how you make out.

 

[dafoot2]

Yes it is, it should get you close so you can smart tune it the rest of the way. Let me know how you make out.

Will do... thanks for the help

 

[msocko3]

Will do... thanks for the help

Your welcome.

 

[Springman2007]

YES! - I too want to say Thanks!

Springman