Brakes and Clutch

[East Coast]

Ok trying to find out what I need to get the rear brakes and clutch working. I got a as of bolt on pedal I think the came off a old v star, I think they are stock foot controls, anyone have anyidea what I am going to need? and what is the best set up? it on a rear engine vw trike

Thanks

[DeathBySnuSnu]

Easiest. ..... dune buggy parts. Any vw aftermarket dealer. There is a thread about how good the service is of a few.

Other....make your own mechanical linkage for the clutch.

About the rear brakes..... most (not all) motorcycle master cylinders do not have enough displacement to operate (correctly) automotive brakes.

[skuuter]

I'm sure some VW Members will be along soon to give You some Good Advice. I built 2 VW powered Trikes years ago and a few Race Cars. My first Trike used the stock pedals, the second used Old Harley Brake Pedals for the Clutch and Brake. I fitted the clutch cable to one by drilling and using a clevis, and fitted the master cylinder pin from a VW to the Harley Brake Pedal...first Trike used a cut-down Stock Floor Pan, second One I built entirely from Tubing.....

[East Coast]

There is a few pics of the frame

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The pedals look something like this

[DeathBySnuSnu]

Excellent.
Some good choices. I presume a first build?

Not raked to far for the forks used. Should handle and steer well.
Simple construction do what you know.

I see you don't have any of the tunnel left.
you could rig up the cable pull clutch back onto it or get the dune buggy hydraulic unit.
I like the hyd unit but don't have room for it so mine is all mechanical linkage.
Best and easiest option (not the cheapest) would be get buggy brakes and clutch set up.

[East Coast]

I was thinking of adding some more rake to the front and lowering the rear, I think it would look beter if it sat a few inches lower

[DeathBySnuSnu]

The low and mean look is my favorite also. Now a word about rake. The most critical geometry of the front end is trail. You can make any rake angle work, you might effect turn radius but that is just an inconvenience. If you rake the front you will be changing the geometry in a big way. You will have to also change the offset of the yoke or change the entire front end to a springer, leading link, or gurder to be able to correct the change in trail. If you are not up to the construction and the math involved don't do it yet. Ride this one, learn a few things about what you want. Include all the things you learn into the next one or totally rebuild this one.

[East Coast]

The low and mean look is my favorite also.

Now a word about rake.
The most critical geometry of the front end is trail. You can make any rake angle work, you might effect turn radius but that is just an inconvenience.
If you rake the front you will be changing the geometry in aa big way. You will have to also change the offset of the yoke or change the entire front end to a springer, leading link, or gurger to be able to correct the change in trail.
If you are not up to the construction and the math involved don't do it yet. Ride this one, learn a few things about what you want. Include all the things you learn into the next one or totally rebuild this one.

Ok thanks, I have been reading up on rake and trail and how to change it on a goldwing, I want to get it up and running so its useable but also want to make it look good, lol

[DeathBySnuSnu]

[East Coast]

Thanks,

http://ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=30651


but starting to get off topic, need info on brakes and clutch set up and controls

[East Coast]

Ok took some pics this is what I got to work with right now


top view


bottom view



and with a vw brake cylinder


Just moking it up on wood to see what it will look like and to see how to make it fit, anyone got any ideas or help for me yet?

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What if I got something like this
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MOTORCYCLE-Q...ypes=og.shares


would that be better?

[stinger608]

First of all East Coast, I don't believe the geometry on that pedal assembly is going to work with that master cylinder! You would probably have to have a force of 300 or 400 pounds to be able to push the brakes correctly. Keep in mind that your pedal assembly is made for a mechanical brake system not a hydraulic system.

You might want to look at a complete all in one assembly like this:

http://www.pacificcustoms.com/vw-tri...ies-short.html

As Deathbysnusnu mentioned in another thread, the bore size will entirely depend on the wheel cylinders and or calipers being used. None the less I think you need to move completely away from the original setup that your trying to use. Just my .02 worth.

Of course I realize that most people are working on a tight budget, god knows I am LOL, but when it comes to brakes I think you need to make sure its safe man.


On the clutch set up, I would convert the clutch to a hydraulic setup like this:

http://www.pacificcustoms.com/cnc320b34.html

Will work much better and you don't have to worry about feeding a cable. You can mount the hydraulic line pretty much where you need to.

[DeathBySnuSnu]

Yeppers....
That is what I am talking about. I am out of town vacating with my kids. Didn't do the research for the pics. But exactly.
Check out the buggy parts. They use rear only vw brakes. All the parts that match up for proper operating.
I have an odd set up on mine, but everything about mine is odd.

[East Coast]

First of all East Coast, I don't believe the geometry on that pedal assembly is going to work with that master cylinder! You would probably have to have a force of 300 or 400 pounds to be able to push the brakes correctly. Keep in mind that your pedal assembly is made for a mechanical brake system not a hydraulic system.

You might want to look at a complete all in one assembly like this:

http://www.pacificcustoms.com/vw-tri...ies-short.html

As Deathbysnusnu mentioned in another thread, the bore size will entirely depend on the wheel cylinders and or calipers being used. None the less I think you need to move completely away from the original setup that your trying to use. Just my .02 worth.



Of course I realize that most people are working on a tight budget, god knows I am LOL, but when it comes to brakes I think you need to make sure its safe man.


On the clutch set up, I would convert the clutch to a hydraulic setup like this:

http://www.pacificcustoms.com/cnc320b34.html

Will work much better and you don't have to worry about feeding a cable. You can mount the hydraulic line pretty much where you need to.

I like and want the look of forward controls and don't have a lot of money to spend right now

[East Coast]

What abot something like this?

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/DEMONS-BLACK-...82956b&vxp=mtr

[stinger608]

Oh heck yea, that would probably work great man!

[East Coast]

Oh heck yea, that would probably work great man!

Anyone know if I can get something like that anywhere for a cheaper price?

[DeathBySnuSnu]

Several things to decide before you buy.

What way are you going to operate the clutch? Cable pull? Mechanical linkage? Hydraulic?

What rear brakes are you going to use?
Stock rear drums?
Beefed up stock type drums?
Disc brakes?
Parking brake?

Now once that is decided, then you can start collecting the parts that fit your purpose.

That is a motorcycle shifter up there. It could possibly be used as a part of a cable pull or mechanical linkage.

That motorcycle master cylinder up there would be fine on pressure but very very low on displacement. May not displace enough to operate drum brake adequately. Possibly ok with disc brakes and a residual pressure valve.

[East Coast]

Several things to decide before you buy.

What way are you going to operate the clutch? Cable pull? Mechanical linkage? Hydraulic?

What rear brakes are you going to use?
Stock rear drums?
Beefed up stock type drums?
Disc brakes?
Parking brake?

Now once that is decided, then you can start collecting the parts that fit your purpose.

That is a motorcycle shifter up there. It could possibly be used as a part of a cable pull or mechanical linkage.

That motorcycle master cylinder up there would be fine on pressure but very very low on displacement. May not displace enough to operate drum brake adequately. Possibly ok with disc brakes and a residual pressure valve.

I am just going to use the stock rear drums and brakes for now, maybe later on down the road change over to disc brakes, not reall 100% sure what to do or use for parking brake yet, might just use the stock parking brake system or a hydraulic line lock.

For the clutch I was just thinking of using a pull cable, I like the idea of the hydraulic for the clutch but I think I could use the money else where on the trike for now.

[DeathBySnuSnu]

Nothing wrong with a cable pull. Don't last very long with monster clutches. Scary when sitting at a red light with it in gear and clutch pressed just waiting....... and snap and you are headed across the intersection ready or not. But i remiss.... with a stockish clutch no problem just inspect it regularly.
Now unless you are gonna used solid motor/trans mounts you will have to have a flex point. Vw does this with a bowden tube. Use it or the clutch will shake/chatter while engaging.

The rear brakes on a car are only a small part of the stopping power. On a trike the rear is near all the stopping power. Stock vw brakes are sadly weak for stopping by themselves. I would at least put super beetle front slave cylinders on the back with decent condition drums and new quality shoes.
Since you will only be using the rear brakes you will need a single piston/curcuit master cyl. Drum brakes take a good bit of displacement to fill up then build pressure. I personally would not use a motorcycle master on car drums. Go with a buggy/vw single master in the 17mm to 19mm bore size. Make sure your peddle and lever have the travel to push it way down the bore to get your displacement.

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Cheapest thing I see.
http://m.ebay.com/itm/311008018755?nav=SEARCH