Oil With High ZDDP Content

[stinger608]

This is something that probably isn't discussed a lot in most Trike forums or motorcycle forums.

However, running ole VDub equipment with flat tappet engines one must have a concern with this subject.

Something that made me very aware of this is that Engle Racing Cams WILL NOT warranty their camshafts unless you can prove that your running an oil that has at least 1100 PPM ZDDP in the oil. Now that must either be the oil that you use or an additive to the used oil.

After doing a bit of research it is pretty tough to come up with a solid conclusion as to what oil actually has the proper amount of ZDDP in it.

For those that don't know what ZDDP stands for, it is; Zinc dialkyldithiophosphates

Its basically an oil detergent that helps with metal to metal wear.

I have not really found conclusive evidence on what oils have the needed ZDDP and what oils do not.

Many claim that the Mobile 1 full synthetic oils contain around 1300 PPM but nothing is conclusive. I used Castrol GTX 20w-50 for years in VDub engines in the past with great results and have emailed Castrol on their detergent content but haven't heard anything back from them as of this posting.


At any rate, I am curious as to what other VDub trike owners are using and if you have found solid evidence of oils containing the recommended amounts of ZDDP?

 

[Rsw]

The guy I got my motor from told me to use Travellers 30w from tractor supply and some Lucas oil additive. It is "old school" oil and has the zinc in it.

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

Yep. Used the same oil for many years.
But it has all changed over the past few years and oil is not the same anymore. The mainstream needs for the oil has change and 99.9% (made up stat) won't ever know or undestand why or how.
Using a diesel oil was a choice, but it has changed also and all the additives in it are not necessarily good for a gas engine.*

There is the specialty beautique mail order oils like Penn.

There is one mobile one oil that some wal marts have with correct zddp. It is one series and one choice of weight, I think it was only 15-50. Was a chart of specs on mobiles site.

Motorcycle Mt1 oils (any brand) have zddp for the wet clutch.

Valvoline *vr1 racing has zddp.

That is the only oil I know of redily available.
I use Castrol Mt1 motorcycle oil from orielies auto.

Now if you have a stockish engine with stockish cam and springs you can probably get away with any oil. But big cams and dual springs probably not.*

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

View attachment Mobil_1_Product_Guide.pdf

 

[stinger608]

View attachment 27310

Looks like the Mobile 1 15w-50 has plenty of ZDDP in it. Trouble is, I don't want to break a fresh engine in with synthetic oil.

Isn't the Valvoline VR1 racing oil standard oil? Or is it a synthetic blend as well?

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

Sorry guys. ....
I mis spoke myself there.
The motorcycle oil is not Mt1!!!!
It is 4t.

Carol has a Dino version.

- - - Updated - - -

Yes the vr1 is a synthetic or a blend.

The only true break in oil I know of is the specialty beautique stuff.

 

[stinger608]

I just took a look and the Valvoline VR1 is a conventional oil. The local Advanced Auto Parts has it at $6 a quart.

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

That is good news!
I have not ever found a tech sheet for the vr1 or the 4T oil that specified things like that mobile 1 sheet does.
I searched my little town here and only found 1, 5 gal bottle of vr1. It was the wrong weight for my scooter. But the bottle had synthetic blend on it. I could be remembering wrong but I don't think I am. But just like the mobile 1 chart, lot of differences between them and very little info on the bottle to know which is which.
Try searching up the tech info on the vr1 oil. It would be my first choice if anyone in town had it here.

I don't mind breaking in an engine with synthetic (with correct zddp). Just rub the cyls down with quick seat and light er up.

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

Hey Stinger!

Lunch time here. Went and looked at the vr1.
Yep. there are two types, dyno and syn.
I guess the one I saw was the syn 5 w 30. I had asked at all the local parts stores about ordering oil and was told they could only get what they had on the shelf.

Do me a favor please.
If Advance Auto gives it a number pass it along.
I will walk in and ask for the number instead of the name.

Maybe it will work with these knuckle heads I have around here.

 

[stinger608]

According to Advanced Auto Parts, the part number is W211 as seen here:

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/...gle&utm_campaign=enhanced&utm_content=dynamic


Should be able to type in your zip code and it will show availability in your area or the closest store with it in stock as well.


Found this Valvoline tech sheet on the VR1 oil:

http://www.valvoline.com/pdf/vr1_racing.pdf

Shows Zinc/Phosphorus as being 0.14/0.13 which I have to assume is 1400/1300 PPM?

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

Followed the link.
It does show my local store with stock, but I have waked in looked and did not see. Then asked and got blank stares and "if it ain't on the shelf we can't get it".

I would much prefer the vr1 over the 4t. Not because of the zddp but I don't want/need the clutch additives.*

I am gonna walk in and show them their own info on my phone. It worked once before on a part for my truck they said they did not have.

Advance auto here is my least favorite parts store ever.

Thanks stinger!

 

[schiel1]

This is something that probably isn't discussed a lot in most Trike forums or motorcycle forums.

However, running ole VDub equipment with flat tappet engines one must have a concern with this subject.

Something that made me very aware of this is that Engle Racing Cams WILL NOT warranty their camshafts unless you can prove that your running an oil that has at least 1100 PPM ZDDP in the oil. Now that must either be the oil that you use or an additive to the used oil.

After doing a bit of research it is pretty tough to come up with a solid conclusion as to what oil actually has the proper amount of ZDDP in it.

For those that don't know what ZDDP stands for, it is; Zinc dialkyldithiophosphates

Its basically an oil detergent that helps with metal to metal wear.

I have not really found conclusive evidence on what oils have the needed ZDDP and what oils do not.

Many claim that the Mobile 1 full synthetic oils contain around 1300 PPM but nothing is conclusive. I used Castrol GTX 20w-50 for years in VDub engines in the past with great results and have emailed Castrol on their detergent content but haven't heard anything back from them as of this posting.


At any rate, I am curious as to what other VDub trike owners are using and if you have found solid evidence of oils containing the recommended amounts of ZDDP?

From the spec sheet for
Mobil 1
Racing™ 4T 10W‐40 Nominal
Phosphorus
Level, PPM1200

Nominal
Zinc Level,
PPM
1300

Advanced full synthetic formulas
designed specifically for
motorcycles where clutch
lubrication is also important.
All motorcycles where
10W‐40 is specified.
SN, JASO MA1
2006

 

[Loner]

And I recall my younger days working on my VWs. As to oil the big singular question was 'detergent or nondetergent?'. Then it evolved to 'leaded gasoline or nonleaded?'.

By the way, the consensus that I followed was straight 30 weight nondetergent, and no lead gasoline because it supposedly would leave deposits on the valves. With the evolution to the [then] new dual port motors the oil preferences moved to good quality detergent oils with multi-weights, and leaded gasoline was OK.

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

Yeah those days of oil are long gone. Regulated away.

If you can get the vr1 I would use that instead of the motorcycle oil with the clutch additives.

 

[stinger608]

Yep Snu, that is what I ended up getting is the Valvoline VR1 20w-50 racing oil.

 

[cavie]

According to Advanced Auto Parts, the part number is W211 as seen here:

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/...gle&utm_campaign=enhanced&utm_content=dynamic


Should be able to type in your zip code and it will show availability in your area or the closest store with it in stock as well.


Found this Valvoline tech sheet on the VR1 oil:

http://www.valvoline.com/pdf/vr1_racing.pdf

Shows Zinc/Phosphorus as being 0.14/0.13 which I have to assume is 1400/1300 PPM?

Probable not have it in stock but they can get it next day. Advanced delivery driver.

 

[Prostreet71]

I know it's an old thread but check out http://www.drivenracingoil.com/dro/productshtml I use there 10w-40 hot rod oil. Should be what your looking for.

 

[1dn5up]

I know it's an old thread but check out http://www.drivenracingoil.com/dro/productshtml I use there 10w-40 hot rod oil. Should be what your looking for.

Great article, every brand and Dino vs sin info will confuse the shite out of me. I use Klots American V-Twin 20-50 . When investigating the API rated info , it's all obsolete. Also noticed it on Mobil 1 also. My oil is $13.00 a qt. My common sense reasoning to use Dino racing oil in m 91 EVO and SIN in the Tri, only because of old vs new technology. :Shrug:

 

[roadhawk]

Had been running Valvoline racing oil. Good stuff, but kinda spendy, and sometimes hard to get here. Lately been using any good 30 or 40 (depending on the season) and STP zinc, or Red line break in additive.

 

[Rsw]

Jut talked to the makers of Travellers 30w oil and the ZDDP is 850.

What about these additives ?

http://www.eastwood.com/eastwood-s-...6AgVTetSgPuHVrzaV3tXgqZzKvB8zK1wsChoC0xbw_wcB

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/lu...vbzhoCn8fw_wcB