unlinking the linked brakes on a 1800 abs

[extreme10]

I have just looked at the champion assembly manual were they say to decouple the linked braking system. Does anyone know why this is?
I am wondering if this improves the braking o trikes where there is no advantages having this on three wheels.

[Gold Rush]

I have just looked at the champion assembly manual were they say to decouple the linked braking system. Does anyone know why this is?

I am wondering if this improves the braking o trikes where there is no advantages having this on three wheels.

I suspect there are other reasons but probably the largest impact on that decision is the availability/choice of calipers. Keeping the linked system requires a three piston caliper set up where the center piston is activated by the bike's front brake circuit. Delinking the brakes simplifies things for the manufacturer and no doubt saves some $$.

Personally, linked or delinked makes not difference in braking power because I use the rear brakes as my primary then follow them up with what ever amount of front brake necessary to do the job. Linked GL1800 brakes have a 70/30 braking ratio. Used by themselves neither front or back can deliver the stopping power needed so why not just learn to do what is most effective right off the get go??

[mhgoldwing]

The reason for de-linking the brakes is that most trike mfg. use automotive brakes on the rears and the OEM rear master cylinder doesn't have enough volume to operate both rear and front brakes in the linked system.

[JaysGone]

I to use the rears then front as needed. Motor Trike at least with mine has them linked. But I do have watch the front left pad a lot closer.
Wore my fronts out in 21K miles.

[extreme10]

My rear brakes are not all that sharp. I have never been able to lock them up. Or have the abs work. If you look at the linked brake setup the amount of brake lines is quite incredible compared to unlink. With the addition of an extra disc on a trike the system must have to work very hard. The reason for asking about decoupling them was to see if anyone had found that it improved braking.

I just don't see a reason for a manufacturer to take the trouble of 'de linking them. It isn't an easy job after all.

I have bled the brakes and have no issues with the compression.

I await to see if anyone else has actually done it.

Champion trike owners already have de-linked brakes, according to champion s manual

I await an answer from them concerning this.

[Gold Rush]

My rear brakes are not all that sharp. I have never been able to lock them up. Or have the abs work. If you look at the linked brake setup the amount of brake lines is quite incredible compared to unlink. With the addition of an extra disc on a trike the system must have to work very hard. The reason for asking about decoupling them was to see if anyone had found that it improved braking.

I just don't see a reason for a manufacturer to take the trouble of 'de linking them. It isn't an easy job after all.

I have bled the brakes and have no issues with the compression.

I await to see if anyone else has actually done it.

Champion trike owners already have de-linked brakes, according to champion s manual

I await an answer from them concerning this.

Here is my take on the situation. Your Motor Trike will not lock up the rear breaks so you hope delinking them might improve the situation.

First thing I would do is a complete brake bleed. Don't just bleed the rear. I rode a Motor Trike Adventure for nearly 50,000 miles and until I did the full air bleeding those brakes were terrible!

Second thing I'd suggest is practicing rear brake usage as the primary and front as needed. Don't trust the linked system to do for the trike what it would do for two wheels.

Depending on brake pad condition you might consider replacing them. Don't forget to recondition the rotors....

Give your Motor Trike a chance... Do what you can and I expect you will be happier.

[extreme10]

Here is my take on the situation. Your Motor Trike will not lock up the rear breaks so you hope delinking them might improve the situation.

First thing I would do is a complete brake bleed. Don't just bleed the rear. I rode a Motor Trike Adventure for nearly 50,000 miles and until I did the full air bleeding those brakes were terrible! Second thing I'd suggest is practicing rear brake usage as the primary and front as needed. Don't trust the linked system to do for the trike what it would do for two wheels.

Depending on brake pad condition you might consider replacing them. Don't forget to recondition the rotors....

Give your Motor Trike a chance... Do what you can and I expect you will be happier.

The trike kit has only done 8000mls. So the pads are like new.

I have completely changed the fluids and although the system has hardened up just slightly it didn't improve the braking.

Relying only on my rear brakes would be a bit risky. It only become positive when I use the front as well. I have never used only my rear brake either on my previous sidecar outfits , solos or trikes. If the road surface is good and in a straight line the front will always win.

I had a trike previously which used floating disc brake from a motor bike , on the rear. It was superb so I do have something to compare it with. It's not the locking up I am seeking, just using that as measure. If the braking is good one knows it is. This trike is not all that hot. Not to sure where the rotors are!

but as the trike is new what ever they are shouldn't be worn or dirty. I do know the pads are moving free.

The size of piston on the solo (REAR) Goldwing is calculated to be used for Five pistons.(that is if there are four piston in the rear) Four on the rear and one on the front. Once the bike is converted it is asked to operate eight on the rear as well at the one in the front. Added to which is the weight of the kit. Bikes gain a lot from having floating and slotted discs and sintered pads. The rear brakes on Motor trike are basic auto discs.

Looking at the job entailed in de-linking the brakes it's no wonder it isn't done often. You can find this on Champion Trikes works manual. http://www.championsidecars.com/uplo...800_indep..pdf

I will first try to change the pads to more efficient ones with possible better discs. The problem there is finding out from motor trike which axle they have used from Ford.

Motor trike are usually excellent and answering enquiries.

EBC Brakes pads offer more efficient pads and discs but I need to know which to order.

Thanks to mhgoldwing for the info.

Thanks to all those kind members who have taken the time to answer. Like having a friend next door.

[extreme10]

Just found this interesting thread on goldwingdoc. All about un-linking GL 1800 brakes. And no one has the answer!

http://gl1800riders.com/forums/showt...96-Rear-brakes

[Gold Rush]

The trike kit has only done 8000mls. So the pads are like new. I have completely changed the fluids and although the system has hardened up just slightly it didn't improve the braking.

Relying only on my rear brakes would be a bit risky. It only become positive when I use the front as well. I have never used only my rear brake either on my previous sidecar outfits , solos or trikes. If the road surface is good and in a straight line the front will always win.

I had a trike previously which used floating disc brake from a motor bike , on the rear. It was superb so I do have something to compare it with. It's not the locking up I am seeking, just using that as measure. If the braking is good one knows it is.

This trike is not all that hot. Not to sure where the rotors are! but as the trike is new what ever they are shouldn't be worn or dirty. I do know the pads are moving free.

The size of piston on the solo (REAR) Goldwing is calculated to be used for Five pistons.(that is if there are four piston in the rear) Four on the rear and one on the front. Once the bike is converted it is asked to operate eight on the rear as well at the one in the front. Added to which is the weight of the kit. Bikes gain a lot from having floating and slotted discs and sintered pads. The rear brakes on Motor trike are basic auto discs.

Looking at the job entailed in de-linking the brakes it's no wonder it isn't done often. You can find this on Champion Trikes works manual.

http://www.championsidecars.com/uplo...800_indep..pdf

I will first try to change the pads to more efficient ones with possible better discs. The problem there is finding out from motor trike which axle they have used from Ford. Motor trike are usually excellent and answering enquiries.

EBC Brakes pads offer more efficient pads and discs but I need to know which to order.

Thanks to mhgoldwing for the info.

Thanks to all those kind members who have taken the time to answer. Like having a friend next door.

Sounds like you have a plan. We hope you succeed in getting that improvement. We all know how reassuring those good brakes are.

[07BlueCSC]

I have just looked at the champion assembly manual were they say to decouple the linked braking system. Does anyone know why this is?
I am wondering if this improves the braking o trikes where there is no advantages having this on three wheels.

Why would you bother paying the extra money for ABS and then disconnect it??
When looking at Trike kits 8 years ago, I immediately dropped Champion because of the de-linked brakes.
I am very happy with ABS and my Trike stops very good.

[keepinon]

I can only say, the linked brakes on my MT work very well, the rears & front will lock up. But as said, I do most of my braking with the rears.

I do not have ABS. In fact, I was told ABS was impossible to make work on a trike kit. The GW ABS brake system only has two sensors (two wheel bike) ... so what do you do with the third wheel's ABS sensor? Which ever wheel you elect to not have ABS would create an unequal braking system.

On the GW's I have serviced the calipers on, I use a vacuum brake bleeder. Removes any air much faster, easier.

[extreme10]

Why would you bother paying the extra money for ABS and then disconnect it??
When looking at Trike kits 8 years ago, I immediately dropped Champion because of the de-linked brakes.
I am very happy with ABS and my Trike stops very good.

I bought the bike , for triking, simply because it was a good deal. It also has navi which again is useless on the 2007 models. I do know that the brakes are not as good as my previous trike which had un-linked brakes and FLOATING discs They were awesome.
Adding the third wheel ( two auto discs) most certainly adds more work for the rear master cylinder to do. It seems though that getting information on how to do it is very thin on the ground, except for Champion trike.

[Gold Rush]

I bought the bike , for triking, simply because it was a good deal. It also has navi which again is useless on the 2007 models. I do know that the brakes are not as good as my previous trike which had un-linked brakes and FLOATING discs They were awesome.
Adding the third wheel ( two auto discs) most certainly adds more work for the rear master cylinder to do. It seems though that getting information on how to do it is very thin on the ground, except for Champion trike.

I'll have to admit that I do not fully understand the inner action between the different brake components but I think that before I chose to modify any of them a call to the kit manufacturer would be prudent. Now, if it is a kit designed to be delinked like my Roadsmith is then the path is clear. The installer (dealer of individual) simply follows the directions supplied by Roadsmith. I did mine and had not a single issue. In fact, if anything my brakes are too good. I need better traction to hold them. Had to jump on them pretty good the other day when a vehicle cut me off. Skidded all three tires just a little...

[Dirtydan]

I can't speak specifically to linked brakes but I can regarding abs. On my Champion kit for my Victory Champion recommends in their instructions to plug the two positions for rear brakes on the ABS module. Then ABS becomes non functional. What's the point of ABS on front wheel only? I just pulled the ABS and ran normal brakes. Problem solved.

[Retired Army]

How does unlinking affect the Honda break recall?

[Gold Rush]

How does unlinking affect the Honda break recall?

i do not know about Lehman but even though Roadsmith brakes are delinked they recommend taking the trike to an authorized Honda dealer to have them verify the need or not. That should put the matter to bed...

[Red Wing One]

I have just looked at the champion assembly manual were they say to decouple the linked braking system. Does anyone know why this is?
I am wondering if this improves the braking o trikes where there is no advantages having this on three wheels.

Hello Extreme 10, I have a 2013 Lehman Monarch ll, LLH with linked brakes on the pedal only (the secondary MC has been disabled). Lehman which is now owned by Champion uses the Champion IRS kit under the Lehman body.
Long story short, the rear brakes suck. I've tried all the recommendations from board members with little success.
I ended up calling Bill Swift at Champion, and he told me without a doubt to de-link the brakes.

Bellow is a follow up from the conversation I had with him (it is from a thread I started about grease fittings on the drive shaft, but I took the opportunity to get his opinion on my brake problem).

"Bazooka, I spoke with Bill at Champion, and he confirmed that my drivehaft has permanently lubricated u-joints.
He also enlightened me about the issue I have with the poor brakes on my Lehman.
He highly recommended that I de-link my rear brakes. This is something that Champion (and other trike kit manufacturers) do as a rule.
I've been contemplated doing this theorizing that the automotive calipers needed all the power that the small Honda master cylinder could provide.
He said that the online install manual for the Champion IRS would show me how to do it. He also said that their parts department could supply me with the few items needed to de-link.
I will definitely take this project on later this winter.
I will post on the site with my results!
Best regards..........Marcel"

Bill agreed that the little (thumb sized) rear MC was too small for the automotive rear calipers on the back and the 2 front calipers.
When you look at how Champion runs the brake line from the rear MC to the tee at the differential for the brakes, they would have you install a 10" hose onto the rear MC then they want you to install a residual pressure valve at the end of the hose. Then you would install a 20" hose from the residual valve to the tee at the differential.
In my case Lehman has installed a residual pressure valve into the tee at the differential, so all I would have to do is run a 36"hose from the rear MC to the existing residual pressure valve.
If you look at what is involved with de-linking the brakes on the rear pedal, it doesn't seem too hard. I figure if I take my time, it will take me 4 hours!.....

[Retired Army]

i do not know about Lehman but even though Roadsmith brakes are delinked they recommend taking the trike to an authorized Honda dealer to have them verify the need or not. That should put the matter to bed...

Thank you sir.

[durango9]

Hello Extreme 10, I have a 2013 Lehman Monarch ll, LLH with linked brakes on the pedal only (the secondary MC has been disabled). Lehman which is now owned by Champion uses the Champion IRS kit under the Lehman body.
Long story short, the rear brakes suck. I've tried all the recommendations from board members with little success.
I ended up calling Bill Swift at Champion, and he told me without a doubt to de-link the brakes.

Bellow is a follow up from the conversation I had with him (it is from a thread I started about grease fittings on the drive shaft, but I took the opportunity to get his opinion on my brake problem).

"Bazooka, I spoke with Bill at Champion, and he confirmed that my drivehaft has permanently lubricated u-joints.
He also enlightened me about the issue I have with the poor brakes on my Lehman.
He highly recommended that I de-link my rear brakes. This is something that Champion (and other trike kit manufacturers) do as a rule.
I've been contemplated doing this theorizing that the automotive calipers needed all the power that the small Honda master cylinder could provide.
He said that the online install manual for the Champion IRS would show me how to do it. He also said that their parts department could supply me with the few items needed to de-link.
I will definitely take this project on later this winter.
I will post on the site with my results!
Best regards..........Marcel"

Bill agreed that the little (thumb sized) rear MC was too small for the automotive rear calipers on the back and the 2 front calipers.
When you look at how Champion runs the brake line from the rear MC to the tee at the differential for the brakes, they would have you install a 10" hose onto the rear MC then they want you to install a residual pressure valve at the end of the hose. Then you would install a 20" hose from the residual valve to the tee at the differential.
In my case Lehman has installed a residual pressure valve into the tee at the differential, so all I would have to do is run a 36"hose from the rear MC to the existing residual pressure valve.
If you look at what is involved with de-linking the brakes on the rear pedal, it doesn't seem too hard. I figure if I take my time, it will take me 4 hours!.....

Red Wing One,

I'm very interested in your discussion with champion regarding de-linking the brakes. I have a lehman kit and it already has a residual valve. I would love to get a set of detailed instructions on how to do this myself. Do you have any docs. showing this?

- - - Updated - - -

Hello Extreme 10, I have a 2013 Lehman Monarch ll, LLH with linked brakes on the pedal only (the secondary MC has been disabled). Lehman which is now owned by Champion uses the Champion IRS kit under the Lehman body.
Long story short, the rear brakes suck. I've tried all the recommendations from board members with little success.
I ended up calling Bill Swift at Champion, and he told me without a doubt to de-link the brakes.

Bellow is a follow up from the conversation I had with him (it is from a thread I started about grease fittings on the drive shaft, but I took the opportunity to get his opinion on my brake problem).

"Bazooka, I spoke with Bill at Champion, and he confirmed that my drivehaft has permanently lubricated u-joints.
He also enlightened me about the issue I have with the poor brakes on my Lehman.
He highly recommended that I de-link my rear brakes. This is something that Champion (and other trike kit manufacturers) do as a rule.
I've been contemplated doing this theorizing that the automotive calipers needed all the power that the small Honda master cylinder could provide.
He said that the online install manual for the Champion IRS would show me how to do it. He also said that their parts department could supply me with the few items needed to de-link.
I will definitely take this project on later this winter.
I will post on the site with my results!
Best regards..........Marcel"

Bill agreed that the little (thumb sized) rear MC was too small for the automotive rear calipers on the back and the 2 front calipers.
When you look at how Champion runs the brake line from the rear MC to the tee at the differential for the brakes, they would have you install a 10" hose onto the rear MC then they want you to install a residual pressure valve at the end of the hose. Then you would install a 20" hose from the residual valve to the tee at the differential.
In my case Lehman has installed a residual pressure valve into the tee at the differential, so all I would have to do is run a 36"hose from the rear MC to the existing residual pressure valve.
If you look at what is involved with de-linking the brakes on the rear pedal, it doesn't seem too hard. I figure if I take my time, it will take me 4 hours!.....

Red Wing One,

I'm very interested in your discussion with champion regarding de-linking the brakes. I have a lehman kit and it already has a residual valve. I would love to get a set of detailed instructions on how to do this myself. Do you have any docs. showing this?

[Red Wing One]

Hi Durango9, here is a PDF of the installation manual for a 2012 or newer Champion IRS (I'm not sure what year kit you have)

http://www.championsidecars.com/uplo..._indep_kit.pdf

If you look at page 7, I have to assume your Lehman conversion has already disabled the secondary master cylinder so that all you need to do is remove the line that joins the rear brakes to the lower connections on the front calipers.

Page 8 explains how to evacuate the fluid from the system....(note, you only have to evacuate the fluid from the 2 lower bleed valves on the front calipers back to the rear rear calipers and the rear master cylinder.)

The only steps that pertain to the system you need to evacuate are "a" "g"(hook up the vacuum bleeder to the right rear caliper) "h" "i" "j" and "k".
I don't think you need to evacuate the line going to the left rear caliper.

Once you have drained the fluid, you can modify the plumbing on page 9.
Step "a" should already be done. You would do step "b" and step "c".
If you look at step "e" on page 10, you may decide that you want to move this line over, but I doubt it is necessary!

Now all that's left to do is hook up the rear MC to the residual pressure valve and fill and bleed the system.
If you go to page 16 it shows you what to do with the brake line you disconnected from the rear MC. All you need to do is zip tie it to the other 2 lines that were disabled during the conversion.

Now go to the bottom of page 21, were it tells you to install a new 10" line and residual pressure valve.
It then tells you to run a 25" hose from the RPV to the tee at the differential.
If your Lehman conversion is like mine, there already is a RPV at the tee by the differential, so I'm thinking all you would need to do is run a line (approx. 36" long) from the rear MC to the RPV. (I believe the line would need a banjo fitting at each end)

That should complete your plumbing so that all you have to do is fill and bleed you lines from the rear MC to the rear calipers.
If you look at the "Note:" on the "Evacuation of the fluid" on page 8, it tells you to lock the pedal on the rear MC in the engaged position to eliminate the need to bench bleed the MC!!!!!!!
If you don't already have one, you would probably want to buy a vacuum bleeder.

BTW, I haven't done mine yet but I plan on doing it before Spring. Let me know how you make out. (You can PM me with questions)
Best regards, Marcel