unlinking the linked brakes on a 1800 abs

[durango9]

Hi Durango9, here is a PDF of the installation manual for a 2012 or newer Champion IRS (I'm not sure what year kit you have)

http://www.championsidecars.com/uplo..._indep_kit.pdf

If you look at page 7, I have to assume your Lehman conversion has already disabled the secondary master cylinder so that all you need to do is remove the line that joins the rear brakes to the lower connections on the front calipers.

Page 8 explains how to evacuate the fluid from the system....(note, you only have to evacuate the fluid from the 2 lower bleed valves on the front calipers back to the rear rear calipers and the rear master cylinder.)

The only steps that pertain to the system you need to evacuate are "a" "g"(hook up the vacuum bleeder to the right rear caliper) "h" "i" "j" and "k".
I don't think you need to evacuate the line going to the left rear caliper.

Once you have drained the fluid, you can modify the plumbing on page 9.
Step "a" should already be done. You would do step "b" and step "c".
If you look at step "e" on page 10, you may decide that you want to move this line over, but I doubt it is necessary!

Now all that's left to do is hook up the rear MC to the residual pressure valve and fill and bleed the system.
If you go to page 16 it shows you what to do with the brake line you disconnected from the rear MC. All you need to do is zip tie it to the other 2 lines that were disabled during the conversion.

Now go to the bottom of page 21, were it tells you to install a new 10" line and residual pressure valve.
It then tells you to run a 25" hose from the RPV to the tee at the differential.
If your Lehman conversion is like mine, there already is a RPV at the tee by the differential, so I'm thinking all you would need to do is run a line (approx. 36" long) from the rear MC to the RPV. (I believe the line would need a banjo fitting at each end)

That should complete your plumbing so that all you have to do is fill and bleed you lines from the rear MC to the rear calipers.
If you look at the "Note:" on the "Evacuation of the fluid" on page 8, it tells you to lock the pedal on the rear MC in the engaged position to eliminate the need to bench bleed the MC!!!!!!!
If you don't already have one, you would probably want to buy a vacuum bleeder.

BTW, I haven't done mine yet but I plan on doing it before Spring. Let me know how you make out. (You can PM me with questions)
Best regards, Marcel

Red Wing One

My Lehman Monarch II SA is mounted onto a 2012 GL1800.
The Secondary master is still operational and I have a linked system.
The Champion pdf outlines a de-linked system so I'm not able to follow those instructions. All I really want to do is bleed the rear disc brakes, but I can't find instructions that show that.
I also have a strange looking Residual Pressure value that has 2 brake lines coming into it and 2 braided lines going to the left and right caliper. The Residual Valve also had a bleed fitting which is not even mention in my Lehman docs.
The bottom line is with a bleeder fitting (1) on each of the real calipers and (1) on the residual valve, I really don't know what sequence should be followed realizing the front calipers are also involved in the procedure due to them being linked.
Lehman states that the rear foot pedal operates both the front and rear brakes, but the hand brake lever only operated the front calipers.
No one seems to have a clear one set of documents that outline the front and rear bleeding procedure for my conversion.

[Red Wing One]

Hi Durango9, I'm surprised to hear that you still have the secondary MC hooked up to your rear brakes. If you look at the Lehman Installation Manual for the Monarch II (Solid Axle) below, you will see that Lehman normally disables the secondary MC!

http://www.lehmantrikes.com/assets/d...0a0131aaff.pdf

If I were you I'd call Lehman at 1-888-394-3357, and ask them why your trike is still linked from the secondary MC to the rear brakes.
They should be able to inform you about the bleeding procedure providing the conversion was done according to their installation manual.

[tfdeputydawg]

There are many that seem confused about the SMC and maybe it's me
I thought most capped off the SMC to the rear, leaving the unit on the bike. The rear brakes are still linked to the front and has nothing to do with the SMC.

[Red Wing One]

I think your right about the confusion! Lehman disables the secondary MC by removing the plumbing from it to the rear brakes and anti dive.

They then install a braided line (11" long) from the secondary MC to the anti dive to keep the AD functional!

[extreme10]

I think your right about the confusion! Lehman disables the secondary MC by removing the plumbing from it to the rear brakes and anti dive.

They then install a braided line (11" long) from the secondary MC to the anti dive to keep the AD functional!

I am the originator of this thread and am still at a loss as to how to complete the operation of de-linking the brakes- which are terrible on the Adventure Motor trike.
I actually helped with the conversion of the trike and nothing was done to the Honda brake system other than connecting the two rear brakes into the bikes system.

I have the Champion assembly instructions and am wondering if they apply to a trike with the normal set up of the Honda Goldwing (2007). I am also not too clear on the instructions as it mentions a number of times the rear brake line but not which one as the trike has two discs.

Unfortunately I am having to do this myself as there isn't anyone locally who could be trusted to do the work. Oh for a youtube demo?.
I have never likes the linked brake son the solo and they are even worse on a trike.

[Red Wing One]

Hi Extreme10, how's the weather in Spain It will be -9 Celsius where I am in Canada!
It sounds to me like your almost starting from scratch if you want to un-link your brakes.
If you look at my post #20 I have posted the Installation Instruction for the 2012 Lehman Monarch II LLS. I don't know which model and year your instructions are for, but I think they are probably similar.
I've owned a 2002, 2009, and a 2012, and the brakes were the same for all models!
the instructions have 3 basic sections, removal of plumbing, installation of new plumbing and disabling of the ABS ( if you have it).
I expect you still have 2 lines going back to the tee where the trike kit starts. Both those lines will be removed when you do the conversion.

If you study the instruction in the manual, I believe you have enough information to do the job.
If you read my post #17, I explain that Champion will sell you all the parts needed to do the work.
If you are serious about unlinking your brakes, send me a PM and I'll help you all the way through...........Marcel

[extreme10]

Well I have finally had the brakes on my Motortrike adventure (2007 1800) de-linked.

In the end I had my trike builder do the work in exchange for the saddle bags I took off the original bike. When the Bike was originally converted to a trike I also worked on the conversion.

Are they any better, Well when I first got it back from the workshop ( I hadn't worked on this change over) The braking had improved but still not what I wanted. There was also too much travel in the brake peddle for my liking. I re bled the rear brakes and although the was no sign of any air coming out of the system the peddle movement had become more to my liking. There had been a new mechanic in the workshop and I fear that he may have done the finishing work on the trike. It is very important to get the correct bleed nipples and the correct order. Only the top two nipples should be bleed. and start with the furthest away from the master cylinder.

The braking had improved some but still not what I wanted as I do pull a trailer on our holiday.

I had research the actual axle that Motortrike have used for the adventure Irs.

This is from a 2002-2005 ford Explorer. The brake pads also come from this same axle.

My next move was to find a better (more cold friction brake pad) EBC make one intended for competition use. Greeenstuff (DP61631). These pads are identical to those used by motor trike. BUT! they are about 0.5 mm too thick. I took the chance and ordered a set for the UK stockest. I then carefully reduced the thickness by scrubbing then on emery cloth on a completely flat surface . checking all the time to make sure that they where level and square. It worked.

I now have a trike with astonishing brakes, something that I have confidence in if I was pulling a trailer .

My final act when I had finished all this work was to use an old racing trick to finally clear all the remaining air from the system , Fine air bubbles can collect in the top of cylinders etc. These are incredibly small fine air bubbles which cannot usually be seen by naked eye. I fasten down the foot brake peddle (you can also do this with the front brake as well) until the peddle is completely solid. Remove the brake fluid reservoir cap and leave it like that for at least over night. Those little devils will be forced back down the line and out through the reservoir. This really does work!

Thanks to all those who have joined in this thread that given advice.

Somewhere in this thread there had been a comment that one trike rider only ever used his back brakes. Although our trikes do have big wheels and tyres (this can be part of the problem of course for our small master cylinder) The front brake is still one of the best in an emergency. If one gets into the habit of just using the rear brake you just may not re-act as you should when the time comes to put all the anchors on. Just my two pennies worth.

[cjmitch]

Here is my take on the situation. Your Motor Trike will not lock up the rear breaks so you hope delinking them might improve the situation.

First thing I would do is a complete brake bleed. Don't just bleed the rear. I rode a Motor Trike Adventure for nearly 50,000 miles and until I did the full air bleeding those brakes were terrible! Second thing I'd suggest is practicing rear brake usage as the primary and front as needed. Don't trust the linked system to do for the trike what it would do for two wheels.

Depending on brake pad condition you might consider replacing them. Don't forget to recondition the rotors....

Give your Motor Trike a chance... Do what you can and I expect you will be happier.

I might also add to this...
Get the recall done before you do any of this...
My rear pedal was satisfactory, by that I mean it stopped the trike pretty well.
I got the recall done and I go back a BRICK as a brake pedal, i could if I chose to lock up the rear brakes....
It was THAT big of a difference!!!!!

My rear Master cylinder MUST have been weak

[paid4c4]

I to use the rears then front as needed. Motor Trike at least with mine has them linked. But I do have watch the front left pad a lot closer.
Wore my fronts out in 21K miles.

I also have a Motor Trike and my brakes are linked and I have no problems with it. I'm in the process of changing the air bags and just inspected the rear brake pads and they are like new. Since I'm not the original owner I don't know when or if the pads have been changed. I need to inspect the front to see the condition of the front pads which I will do soon.
My GW is about to turn 22K miles.
Bill