Valkyrie Front Tire ?

[North of 49]

I would like to replace my front tire with a Michelin Pilot as recommended by many trikers. My current tire is 150-80-R17. The closest Michelin size is 150-70-17. Have any Valk riders used this size tire and are there any problems with the fit? Can't seem to find the specs on Michelin site........thanks.

[bigdave]

On my Valkyrie Interstate with Motortrike kit I used a &quot;Cheng Shin 906&quot;. I can't remember the size but it ended up just a touch smaller in diameter. Like a 1/16 of an inch. Not enough to make a difference. It worked good and it looked like at least 20,000 miles on it before replacement. The folks that bought the trike rode it home. Bias ply and a rear tire.<br />
Dave

[North of 49]

Thanks bigdave.....I am guessing that the only difference from an 80 series to the 70, would be that it is not quite as tall. This would not be a very significant difference. Am I right in assuming the width would be the same for each series?. Would like to know for sure it will fit, before I order one. May have to e-mail Michelin to get exact sizes.

[John Luciano]

70 80 90 are % of hight to width. If you could find a 160 70 17 it would be the same size. I went from a 130 70 to a 130 80 on my wing and it raised the front of the bike up 2 inches . This worked out well because now the bike turns easier because the circumference is larger, also it corrected my 2 MPH error. now You using a smaller tire it would seem just the reverse. Check other brands .

[Buzzard]

For future reference the formula is simple:

150 - is the width of the tire in millimeters

80 - is the aspect ratio or the relationship between the width or the tire and the height of the tire from the ground to the rim. In this case, the height of the tire is 80% of the width.

17 - Of course, 17” this is the size of your rim.


Formula is Width x Aspect Ratio divided by 25.4 Multiplied by 2 Plus rim size = Height

Width (150 mm) x Aspect ratio (.80) = 120 mm

Convert the 120 mm to “inches” by dividing 120 by 25.4 which is 4.7244 inches. Multiply this by 2 because you have both the upper and lower portion of the tire which results in 9.4488 inches.

All you have to do then is add your wheel size to the 9.4488 to give you the overall height of the tire.

In this case, 9.4488 + 17 = 26.4488 inches.

For the 150-70-17 the height is 25.2677 inches.

As already stated, my concern would be my speedometer if the sensor is at the front wheel. Additionally, you will change of the center of gravity and shift weight forward. 0.59 inch or half of 1.18 inches is a fair amount to lower your front and shift the CG.

As always, I don't want to come off as a smart a$$ and am always open to disagreement and a learning experience.

This is just one opinion.

Buzzard

[North of 49]

Thanks for the explanation, Buzzard. The Dunlop site shows my original Elite 3 is actually 26.77", so it would be 3/4" shorter if I went to the 70 series Pilot. I agree that .75 inches might make a significant difference here.
I have searched most of the tire companies and it would appear that no one makes a rear bias belt, in the 150-80-17 size. Dunlop and Metzeler do have a bias belt "front" tire in that size, which might reduce the front end shakes? Any opinions?
Interesting though, the front Dunlop D404 specs, shows the 150-80-17 size tire is 25.9 inch diameter(height), compared to my current , same size, Elite, at 26.77". Seems there is some variability in the same sized tire?
I have asked Michelin to send me their specs on the Pilot, as it appears all is not consistant in tire sizes. I wasn't able to access any info on their website.

[Buzzard]

Some of these may help. I've talked to some of the guys at Tires Unlimited and they are very knowledgeable. I've also contacted numerous manufacturers customer's service and have been able to talk with some of their engineers. They are always helpful, but have to be careful what they say. It's just business. Give some of them a call.

Motorcycle Tires - Brands

Ejelta.com: Tire Size Calculator

Tire size calculator

The Future of Motorcycle Tires - Motorcyclist Online

Also, North of 49, I suspect that there are no two production tires that come off the assembly line that are exactly the same. Additionally, any nominal or expected dimensions a manufacturer may assign a tire size may vary quite a bit. Then there is wear. A few mm here a few mm there.

_____________

I guess there is another thing that needs to be said concerning tires on Trikes in general and front tires on Trikes in particular. There has been very little real research done by the manufacturers of tires or trikes on just what type tire or configuration is the best for safe operation of our Machines.

This small group we represent on this site is part of an experiment on what works best, rides most comfortably and hopefully doesn't hurt us.

As an example, when I first started riding, I didn't have a clue about the engineering of a motorcycle. My first bike was a 1947 knuckle basket with parts off of an Indian, a Cushman and many other machines just to make it run down the road. I put whatever tire I could beg, borrow or steal on the front or rear as long s it would fit. I couldn’t kick start it and had to get my buddies to push me off and then catch up. If it was squirrely, I just learned to ride it and deal with whatever was trying to kill me. Those of us, who survived, learned from our mistakes and some of us even went to school to better understand the things. Oh, by the way… That bike ended up under a 1956 Buick. Go figure me talking.

What I'm trying to say, is that anything we discuss here concerning the mechanics of our machines is little more than what we can transfer from our collective many years of riding motorcycles. At best, we're guessing.

At worst, we’re just blowing smoke with knowledge garnered from the past supplemented with a little education.

One thing is for certain. No manufacturer of a Trike or a Trike kit is going to put anything on the market that is unsafe. It wouldn’t be good business and we can bet that any information the manufacturers gain will be passed on quickly.


The tire you seem to want to use will probably work fine and you don’t seem to be someone who is going to be riding 200kph. If your Trike becomes nose heavy and doesn’t want to steer as well, install fork extenders to move the center of gravity aft and get back close to balance.

I ride a VTX1800 Panther by MotorTrike with 6* rake and 2"; fork extenders. Like many of us, I love to experiment. My next front tire is going to be a Michelin Pilot.

[Joe Mac]

This may be a stupid question, but Ill ask it anyway. Is there a difference between a front and rear tire on a motorcycle. Now I dont mean size wise or thread geometry but an actual difference in mfg. Are the crowns or curvature different so a tire would performm better on the front as opposed to the rear. Is there a reason a rear tire couldnt be used on the front

[Buzzard]

Morning Joe Mac. Simply stated, the answer to your question is yes, there is a difference in how fronts and rears are designed. Here is an article by Tim Gorman on the subject that may answer some of your questions:

Motorcycle Tires | Choosing The Right Motorcycle Tire Involves The Right Tread Style, Tire Bias And Tire Materials - WhyBike.com

Note, however, that the subject of "Trike Tires" is not addressed and many Trike owners are using a rear tire on the front of their trikes. I've seen comments by many owners, some informed - some not, that vary on what direction to mount the tire.

For me, I'll mount the rear Michelin tire in reverse. In my opinion, the rear tire is designed to accept the dynamic forces of putting power to the ground and I feel I should use that design in reverse to brake the Trike.

I think that we all have the ultimate goal of saving money on front tires and still have safe machines. With the number of good reports from those Pioneers who are already using tires in this manner, I'm going to buy in.

Buzzard

[Joe Mac]

Thanks Buzzard for that reply. You seem very knowlegable on this subject. I will be putting a tire on after this season and obviously would like to make the right choice. I am watching ebay and have my eye on a wide white wall. I kinda like the nostalgia it gives but Im not sure of the performance or safety factors. These tires have a completely different thread design than the Dunlop that I currently have on it. I am looking for opinions. My ultimate goal is to improve steering but I not at the expence of safety. Im naive when it comes to front tires for a trike and looking for opinions

[North of 49]

Hi....just wanted to report back again. Talked to Michelin and got the specs on their Pilot tire. Their 70 series is 25.2" versus my original Dunlop at 26.77"
Difference being about 1.5" taller, would lower my trike 1/2 of that, or .75" I think I will go ahead and order one, and see how it works. I'll let you know when I have it on and tested. Thanks for all the comments.

[Joe Mac]

North of 49, thats a very significant decrease in tire size, Have you considered the change in the speedometer. Just my .02

[Buzzard]

Here is the site for the Speedohealer.

HealTech Electronics Ltd. - Makers of the GIpro/ATRE and SpeedoHealer

Buzzard

[Lady Triker]

North of 49,

Just wondering how you made out with the tire and what did you end up buying, where and the cost?

[North of 49]

Hi Lady Triker...I have been keeping watch on my radial Dunlop, and it seems to be wearing OK, no cupping etc. However, it will not make the season, so I think I will eventually go ahead and try the Michelin Pilot, based on the favourable comments on the various forums. It will now likely be July before I make the switch.
It would appear that the only 150/80/17 bias tires made are for the front, and would lower me .5", compared to the Michelin at about .75" , so not too much difference. If my calculations are right, my speedo would be about +6% too high, and I can live with that.
I have not got a current price, but I buy from my son who is the parts manager at a Honda dealership, so I get a bit of a break, and I prefer to buy where they will install it as well. Thanks for everyone's in-put on this...

[Joe Mac]

Im confused. I just asked the dealer where I had my trike inspected about running a rear tire on the front and he told me not to do it. I told him that it improves steering and handling according to what Ive read but he still said I shouldnt do it. That dosent necessarily make him right and Id still like some opinions from those that have done it. If it makes that much of a difference, Id like to try it. Seems all the articles on tires are for 2 wheelers and dont pertain to trikes. Pls jump in and give your opinion if you have done it. Opinions are not right or wrong so let me know from your experiance. Thanks in advance
Joe

[Buzzard]

Morning Joe Mac. Buzzard here.

There is no shortage of "opinions" in this world of Motorcycles and Trikes. For most of us who discuss issues with our world wide contemporaries here on this and other forums, we are probably more informed than most and we "Ask Questions" of those who have tried something new like front tires.

I too have run into Dealers and service managers who make these declarative comments. My question to them is always positive and simple: "Oh, you have received data from a tire manufacturer or a trike designer on this subject. May I see it?"

Of course they never have any research data, but rather, as you said, they have their opinion.

My opinion is that I rather tend to listen to informed, experiened members of this and other forums. I gather information and make my own decision on what I feel is best for me and my wife. I prefer not to hurt either of us.

[Lady Triker]

I have a Lehman GW 1800 Trike and my husband has a 01' Valk Trike.
My first front tire lasted about 18k kms. and it was shot. I bought another one exactly the same as I figured that's the way to go. I believe it was a Dunlop (whatever Honda put out the 05's with). That one lasted about the same. Now I needed a third new front tire and was getting tired of paying around $250-275 Cdn. installed, when I knew in the US tires are much cheaper.
I then started to read up on front tires for trikes. Many had suggested running a Michelin Pilot Activ. I was very skeptical at first, but after so many were using one, I decided to give it a try.
Wow, what a difference. It now hugs the road and there is not the slightest vibration.
The front tire size for the MPA is really a back tire for the older GW 1500.
Yes, I installed mine in reverse. The dealer looked at me funny and had the service manager come out and talk to me. After I gave him all the info I had, he said, why not it makes sense.
Oh ya, it also handles great in the rain.

So, yes, I do have real world experience (about 7k kms. on it now with barely any signs of wear).
Some are reporting getting 25-30k miles (that's about 32-40k kms.)
There have been many scientific explanations about the trike dynamics, which are very different from that of a 2 wheeler.

This is why I asked about a front tire for a Valkyrie Trike, one that's in the same ball park as a MPA.
Also, my MPA was only about $200 Cdn installed.

[Buzzard]

Lady Triker, you have articulated so very well my exact point on listening to individuals who have actual "Experience" on an issue and have reported back with your findings. Like many, I have an aversion for "Opinions" and great admiration for "Experience".

Thank you for sharing your "Experience".

[North of 49]

I agree, that real life experience is the key here. Many bike shops will not agree with putting a different tire, other than the original two wheeler type, on a trike. I think this is due to lack of knowledge and a paranoia over liabilities. This is where I find these forums so valuable, as you can read of real experiences from knowledgeable people. There is plenty of concensus that the MPA tire works really well and is also economical. Just wish Michelin (or another manufacturer) had a tire in my exact size.