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Thread: Valkyrie Front Tire ?

  1. #1
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    Default Valkyrie Front Tire ?

    I would like to replace my front tire with a Michelin Pilot as recommended by many trikers. My current tire is 150-80-R17. The closest Michelin size is 150-70-17. Have any Valk riders used this size tire and are there any problems with the fit? Can't seem to find the specs on Michelin site........thanks.

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    On my Valkyrie Interstate with Motortrike kit I used a &quot;Cheng Shin 906&quot;. I can't remember the size but it ended up just a touch smaller in diameter. Like a 1/16 of an inch. Not enough to make a difference. It worked good and it looked like at least 20,000 miles on it before replacement. The folks that bought the trike rode it home. Bias ply and a rear tire.<br />
    Dave

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    Default Valk Tire

    Thanks bigdave.....I am guessing that the only difference from an 80 series to the 70, would be that it is not quite as tall. This would not be a very significant difference. Am I right in assuming the width would be the same for each series?. Would like to know for sure it will fit, before I order one. May have to e-mail Michelin to get exact sizes.

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    Default

    70 80 90 are % of hight to width. If you could find a 160 70 17 it would be the same size. I went from a 130 70 to a 130 80 on my wing and it raised the front of the bike up 2 inches . This worked out well because now the bike turns easier because the circumference is larger, also it corrected my 2 MPH error. now You using a smaller tire it would seem just the reverse. Check other brands .

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    Default

    For future reference the formula is simple:

    150 - is the width of the tire in millimeters

    80 - is the aspect ratio or the relationship between the width or the tire and the height of the tire from the ground to the rim. In this case, the height of the tire is 80% of the width.

    17 - Of course, 17” this is the size of your rim.


    Formula is Width x Aspect Ratio divided by 25.4 Multiplied by 2 Plus rim size = Height

    Width (150 mm) x Aspect ratio (.80) = 120 mm

    Convert the 120 mm to “inches” by dividing 120 by 25.4 which is 4.7244 inches. Multiply this by 2 because you have both the upper and lower portion of the tire which results in 9.4488 inches.

    All you have to do then is add your wheel size to the 9.4488 to give you the overall height of the tire.

    In this case, 9.4488 + 17 = 26.4488 inches.

    For the 150-70-17 the height is 25.2677 inches.

    As already stated, my concern would be my speedometer if the sensor is at the front wheel. Additionally, you will change of the center of gravity and shift weight forward. 0.59 inch or half of 1.18 inches is a fair amount to lower your front and shift the CG.

    As always, I don't want to come off as a smart a$$ and am always open to disagreement and a learning experience.

    This is just one opinion.

    Buzzard
    Last edited by Buzzard; 05-19-2008 at 09:05 AM.

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    Default Valk Tire

    Thanks for the explanation, Buzzard. The Dunlop site shows my original Elite 3 is actually 26.77", so it would be 3/4" shorter if I went to the 70 series Pilot. I agree that .75 inches might make a significant difference here.
    I have searched most of the tire companies and it would appear that no one makes a rear bias belt, in the 150-80-17 size. Dunlop and Metzeler do have a bias belt "front" tire in that size, which might reduce the front end shakes? Any opinions?
    Interesting though, the front Dunlop D404 specs, shows the 150-80-17 size tire is 25.9 inch diameter(height), compared to my current , same size, Elite, at 26.77". Seems there is some variability in the same sized tire?
    I have asked Michelin to send me their specs on the Pilot, as it appears all is not consistant in tire sizes. I wasn't able to access any info on their website.

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    Thumbs up

    Some of these may help. I've talked to some of the guys at Tires Unlimited and they are very knowledgeable. I've also contacted numerous manufacturers customer's service and have been able to talk with some of their engineers. They are always helpful, but have to be careful what they say. It's just business. Give some of them a call.

    Motorcycle Tires - Brands

    Ejelta.com: Tire Size Calculator

    Tire size calculator

    The Future of Motorcycle Tires - Motorcyclist Online

    Also, North of 49, I suspect that there are no two production tires that come off the assembly line that are exactly the same. Additionally, any nominal or expected dimensions a manufacturer may assign a tire size may vary quite a bit. Then there is wear. A few mm here a few mm there.

    _____________

    I guess there is another thing that needs to be said concerning tires on Trikes in general and front tires on Trikes in particular. There has been very little real research done by the manufacturers of tires or trikes on just what type tire or configuration is the best for safe operation of our Machines.

    This small group we represent on this site is part of an experiment on what works best, rides most comfortably and hopefully doesn't hurt us.

    As an example, when I first started riding, I didn't have a clue about the engineering of a motorcycle. My first bike was a 1947 knuckle basket with parts off of an Indian, a Cushman and many other machines just to make it run down the road. I put whatever tire I could beg, borrow or steal on the front or rear as long s it would fit. I couldn’t kick start it and had to get my buddies to push me off and then catch up. If it was squirrely, I just learned to ride it and deal with whatever was trying to kill me. Those of us, who survived, learned from our mistakes and some of us even went to school to better understand the things. Oh, by the way… That bike ended up under a 1956 Buick. Go figure me talking.

    What I'm trying to say, is that anything we discuss here concerning the mechanics of our machines is little more than what we can transfer from our collective many years of riding motorcycles. At best, we're guessing.

    At worst, we’re just blowing smoke with knowledge garnered from the past supplemented with a little education.

    One thing is for certain. No manufacturer of a Trike or a Trike kit is going to put anything on the market that is unsafe. It wouldn’t be good business and we can bet that any information the manufacturers gain will be passed on quickly.


    The tire you seem to want to use will probably work fine and you don’t seem to be someone who is going to be riding 200kph. If your Trike becomes nose heavy and doesn’t want to steer as well, install fork extenders to move the center of gravity aft and get back close to balance.

    I ride a VTX1800 Panther by MotorTrike with 6* rake and 2"; fork extenders. Like many of us, I love to experiment. My next front tire is going to be a Michelin Pilot.

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    This may be a stupid question, but Ill ask it anyway. Is there a difference between a front and rear tire on a motorcycle. Now I dont mean size wise or thread geometry but an actual difference in mfg. Are the crowns or curvature different so a tire would performm better on the front as opposed to the rear. Is there a reason a rear tire couldnt be used on the front

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    Morning Joe Mac. Simply stated, the answer to your question is yes, there is a difference in how fronts and rears are designed. Here is an article by Tim Gorman on the subject that may answer some of your questions:

    Motorcycle Tires | Choosing The Right Motorcycle Tire Involves The Right Tread Style, Tire Bias And Tire Materials - WhyBike.com

    Note, however, that the subject of "Trike Tires" is not addressed and many Trike owners are using a rear tire on the front of their trikes. I've seen comments by many owners, some informed - some not, that vary on what direction to mount the tire.

    For me, I'll mount the rear Michelin tire in reverse. In my opinion, the rear tire is designed to accept the dynamic forces of putting power to the ground and I feel I should use that design in reverse to brake the Trike.

    I think that we all have the ultimate goal of saving money on front tires and still have safe machines. With the number of good reports from those Pioneers who are already using tires in this manner, I'm going to buy in.

    Buzzard

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    Default

    Thanks Buzzard for that reply. You seem very knowlegable on this subject. I will be putting a tire on after this season and obviously would like to make the right choice. I am watching ebay and have my eye on a wide white wall. I kinda like the nostalgia it gives but Im not sure of the performance or safety factors. These tires have a completely different thread design than the Dunlop that I currently have on it. I am looking for opinions. My ultimate goal is to improve steering but I not at the expence of safety. Im naive when it comes to front tires for a trike and looking for opinions

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    Default Tire Update

    Hi....just wanted to report back again. Talked to Michelin and got the specs on their Pilot tire. Their 70 series is 25.2" versus my original Dunlop at 26.77"
    Difference being about 1.5" taller, would lower my trike 1/2 of that, or .75" I think I will go ahead and order one, and see how it works. I'll let you know when I have it on and tested. Thanks for all the comments.

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    North of 49, thats a very significant decrease in tire size, Have you considered the change in the speedometer. Just my .02

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    Here is the site for the Speedohealer.

    HealTech Electronics Ltd. - Makers of the GIpro/ATRE and SpeedoHealer

    Buzzard

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    North of 49,

    Just wondering how you made out with the tire and what did you end up buying, where and the cost?

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    Default Valk Tire

    Hi Lady Triker...I have been keeping watch on my radial Dunlop, and it seems to be wearing OK, no cupping etc. However, it will not make the season, so I think I will eventually go ahead and try the Michelin Pilot, based on the favourable comments on the various forums. It will now likely be July before I make the switch.
    It would appear that the only 150/80/17 bias tires made are for the front, and would lower me .5", compared to the Michelin at about .75" , so not too much difference. If my calculations are right, my speedo would be about +6% too high, and I can live with that.
    I have not got a current price, but I buy from my son who is the parts manager at a Honda dealership, so I get a bit of a break, and I prefer to buy where they will install it as well. Thanks for everyone's in-put on this...

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    Im confused. I just asked the dealer where I had my trike inspected about running a rear tire on the front and he told me not to do it. I told him that it improves steering and handling according to what Ive read but he still said I shouldnt do it. That dosent necessarily make him right and Id still like some opinions from those that have done it. If it makes that much of a difference, Id like to try it. Seems all the articles on tires are for 2 wheelers and dont pertain to trikes. Pls jump in and give your opinion if you have done it. Opinions are not right or wrong so let me know from your experiance. Thanks in advance
    Joe

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    Morning Joe Mac. Buzzard here.

    There is no shortage of "opinions" in this world of Motorcycles and Trikes. For most of us who discuss issues with our world wide contemporaries here on this and other forums, we are probably more informed than most and we "Ask Questions" of those who have tried something new like front tires.

    I too have run into Dealers and service managers who make these declarative comments. My question to them is always positive and simple: "Oh, you have received data from a tire manufacturer or a trike designer on this subject. May I see it?"

    Of course they never have any research data, but rather, as you said, they have their opinion.

    My opinion is that I rather tend to listen to informed, experiened members of this and other forums. I gather information and make my own decision on what I feel is best for me and my wife. I prefer not to hurt either of us.

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    I have a Lehman GW 1800 Trike and my husband has a 01' Valk Trike.
    My first front tire lasted about 18k kms. and it was shot. I bought another one exactly the same as I figured that's the way to go. I believe it was a Dunlop (whatever Honda put out the 05's with). That one lasted about the same. Now I needed a third new front tire and was getting tired of paying around $250-275 Cdn. installed, when I knew in the US tires are much cheaper.
    I then started to read up on front tires for trikes. Many had suggested running a Michelin Pilot Activ. I was very skeptical at first, but after so many were using one, I decided to give it a try.
    Wow, what a difference. It now hugs the road and there is not the slightest vibration.
    The front tire size for the MPA is really a back tire for the older GW 1500.
    Yes, I installed mine in reverse. The dealer looked at me funny and had the service manager come out and talk to me. After I gave him all the info I had, he said, why not it makes sense.
    Oh ya, it also handles great in the rain.

    So, yes, I do have real world experience (about 7k kms. on it now with barely any signs of wear).
    Some are reporting getting 25-30k miles (that's about 32-40k kms.)
    There have been many scientific explanations about the trike dynamics, which are very different from that of a 2 wheeler.

    This is why I asked about a front tire for a Valkyrie Trike, one that's in the same ball park as a MPA.
    Also, my MPA was only about $200 Cdn installed.
    Last edited by Lady Triker; 05-31-2008 at 07:16 PM. Reason: added some more info

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    Lady Triker, you have articulated so very well my exact point on listening to individuals who have actual "Experience" on an issue and have reported back with your findings. Like many, I have an aversion for "Opinions" and great admiration for "Experience".

    Thank you for sharing your "Experience".

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    Default Valk Tire

    I agree, that real life experience is the key here. Many bike shops will not agree with putting a different tire, other than the original two wheeler type, on a trike. I think this is due to lack of knowledge and a paranoia over liabilities. This is where I find these forums so valuable, as you can read of real experiences from knowledgeable people. There is plenty of concensus that the MPA tire works really well and is also economical. Just wish Michelin (or another manufacturer) had a tire in my exact size.

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    Thanks guys (and gals) for sharing that info. I put MUCH more weight in your input than I do a dealers. As I saaid earlier, my biggest issue is hard steering. I have standard rake and I dont want to lower the front end. In fact Id like to raise it a bit. Im thinking of getting a triple tree on ebay and machining it myself for a 4 1/2 deg rake. In the interim though, I will take your advise and do as you suggest

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Luciano View Post
    70 80 90 are % of hight to width. If you could find a 160 70 17 it would be the same size. I went from a 130 70 to a 130 80 on my wing and it raised the front of the bike up 2 inches . This worked out well because now the bike turns easier because the circumference is larger, also it corrected my 2 MPH error. now You using a smaller tire it would seem just the reverse. Check other brands .
    After some research I did find a Michelin (160/70 17). It's a Macadam rear tire that is actually made for Harleys.
    Check out the Michelin site, under motorcycle tires.
    I'm going to do more sniffing around. I'm just concerned that the size isn't exactly the same and I'd hate to spend the money and then it's not suitable.
    I'm going to talk to my Honda dealer here when I get a chance. They're really good and they don't BS me as I spend way too much money there for them to piss me off.
    Last edited by Lady Triker; 06-01-2008 at 08:45 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Triker View Post
    After some research I did find a Michelin (160/70 17). It's a Macadam rear tire that is actually made for Harleys.
    Check out the Michelin site, under motorcycle tires.
    I'm going to do more sniffing around. I'm just concerned that the size isn't exactly the same and I'd hate to spend the money and then it's not suitable.
    I'm going to talk to my Honda dealer here when I get a chance. They're really good and they don't BS me as I spend way too much money there for them to piss me off.
    Lady Triker, I like your style.

    For future reference the following site has with it, direct links to the manufacturer's web sites. I particularly like the Bridgestone site and their search menu.

    Motorcycle Tires - Brands

    I hope this helps those who wish to find a larger or smaller tire application.
    Last edited by Buzzard; 06-03-2008 at 10:04 AM.

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    Default Valk Tire Update

    I called Michelin and they sent me their Fitment Guide for motorcycle tires. I found they list both a "static" diameter, and an "in use". The "in use" size for the 150/70/17 is over .5" larger than the static size. This brought me closer to my original tire size, so I ordered the Michelin Pilot Activ, and had it installed yesterday. The fit is good, no handling problems, my speedo is only slightly out, so all is well. And the performance is great. Hope this sizing discussion will help out other Valk owners.

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    North of 49,

    Do you mean that it's .5 inch fatter?
    Like the old muscle cars that had 50 series on them that were fatter than the say, 70 series.
    I can picture this, if that's what you mean.

    I guess they fit the rim OK?

    We just got back from a 3000 km trip and now the front tire on the Valk really needs to be replaced.

    Next question, do you get it mounted with the treads reversed?

    Thanks for following up with all of us.

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    Finally got the MPA installed on the Valk and are going on a long trip next week. I'll report on the tire when we get back.

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    Lady Triker...sorry for the lack of response, we just got back from Sturgis trip. It sounds like you already have your tire on, but to clarify, the .5" difference in the "diameter" means the height of the tire. I mounted mine in the usual way, not reversed. I had no problems with handling, etc and it performed very well on our trip. I really don't think there is a wrong way to mount it, but maybe I'll do the next one in reverse.

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    Just to update on the new front tire for the Valk. mounted in normal rotation

    This info is from my husband. A big thumbs up on all aspects of handling, except it is noisier than the OEM.

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    Default Re: Valkyrie Front Tire ?

    Hi Lady Triker,
    Could you give me info for model and size on MPA tire you put on your Valk.
    I have an 01 Valk Trike and after all the helpful reading on this site I think that is the tire I will try too.
    Thanks Terry.

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Valkyrie Front Tire ?

    Hi North of 49,
    Thanks from the Island guy for yours and Lady Trikers info / research on Valk front tires.
    Now I can draw on your experience and testing. I hope I can return info some time!
    Terry

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    Default Re: Valkyrie Front Tire ?

    Black Dragon......I am assuming your Interstate has the same size original size tire as my Tourer had....150-80-R17. In the thread you will find I put on the closest size available, an MPA 150-70-17 (rear tire), and I really like it. Many times you make changes with insignificant results. This tire works great. If you still have a radial on the front, make the change.
    Good to know there are other Valk trikes around. Feel free to ask questions.
    And thanks for sending your wet weather this way...wet snow forecast for Manitoba tommorrow!

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    Default Re: Valkyrie Front Tire ?

    I put the Michelin Pilot on my Valkyrie I/S,,,love the way it handles,,very smooth also.
    As others have said, speedometer is a little slow when it's showing 80 MPH actually only going 75 MPH. I can live with that....

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    Default Re: Valkyrie Front Tire ?

    This is a great thread re: Valk front tire selection as of 2011. Also, for whatever reason it does not show on searches unless "north of 49" is used in the advanced search option.My question is have there been any substantial advances in Valk front tire technology and / or fitment since this thread went inactive in 2011?I think that I recently read somewhere that one of the major tire manifacturers was soon going to release a trike specific front tire but I cannot find anything on it I acknowledge other more recent threads somewhat inclusive of this question, but nothing specific on recent advances. Also, it would be good if tags could be added to enable this thread to come up on an ordinary search.

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