High speed stability affected by lift kits?

[scooterbum46]

I know this may be a sensitive question, but does anyone else feel their TG is more "twitchy" at high speeds after raising the rear end, with the resultant decrease in caster/rake? Never really paid attention to it until trying to "fill in the corners" during Powervision Autuotune runs. Straight, flat roads, tires and shock pressure good, no side wind - 80+ Mph runs feel much more unstable than my 2014 Ultra ever did.

[DK Custom Products]

I know this may be a sensitive question, but does anyone else feel their TG is more "twitchy" at high speeds after raising the rear end, with the resultant decrease in caster/rake? Never really paid attention to it until trying to "fill in the corners" during Powervision Autuotune runs. Straight, flat roads, tires and shock pressure good, no side wind - 80+ Mph runs feel much more unstable than my 2014 Ultra ever did.

It may just be a matter of it feeling different...or it may be that the PSI in the tires is not ideal.

Front should be around 36-40 psi and rear should be around 20-24 psi. If the psi in the rear tires is over 24, it will feel incrementally less stable the higher the psi is, especially if you have the shocks up near 50 psi.

When on the interstate I am usually running between 75 & 85 mph. Usually with just one hand on the bars. I regularly speed up to 95 mph (or more) when passing. It has never felt unstable to me.

I have been up over 100 a few times, and the front got a bit light (which I would translate as less stable).

I still ride 2 wheels also. Same roads as above, and I will be 5-10 mph Slower on two wheels, simply because it feels less stable to me on 2 than 3 at those higher speeds.

All that said-

Raising the rear changes the geometry, giving quicker (more responsive) steering. This is a common trait/mod in 2 wheel bikes also. I would not call it twitchy, but until one is used to giving less steering input, it may result in "oversteering".

More weight on the front tire (from the lift kit) gives more stability, it also allows more front brake to be used before losing traction.

With the slightly higher center of gravity, the inside back tire will lift off the ground more easily in a corner, IF riding aggressively. This is not an issue unless you ride VERY aggressively, or go into a corner much hotter than you should.

Even with a lift kit, I find I can hit corners at almost double the posted speed and not have a tire lift.

Here is a vid of the 14 TG in the Dragon. Did not lift a tire at all, did not get into any unstable situations...was moving along pretty good.




Here is a vid riding with some friends on the 11 TG. The parts where I am behind just the one bike, (a Dyna that was holding me back ) we were getting up to 70+ mph in the straights before the curves. No instability at all.




Both TG's running Comfort Lifts.

To be clear, if I rode the Dragon on a non lifted bike aggressively, then got on one with a lift kit, I would need to address my steering input. On the stock bike it would be like sort of plowing thru the corners, giving a LOT of steering input. Then getting on the Trike with a lift kit, I would Not need to give as much steering input, otherwise I would be turning more than I needed to. So it does take a little getting used to the lighter steering effort needed with a lift kit.

Hope that helps.

Kevin

[Livin2Ride]

I know this may be a sensitive question, but does anyone else feel their TG is more "twitchy" at high speeds after raising the rear end, with the resultant decrease in caster/rake? Never really paid attention to it until trying to "fill in the corners" during Powervision Autuotune runs. Straight, flat roads, tires and shock pressure good, no side wind - 80+ Mph runs feel much more unstable than my 2014 Ultra ever did.

The only positive points we found for the lift kits were it kept you from scrapping your mufflers and made it easier to load into a trailer. Ours came off after 3000 miles and resides in a box of other misc. stuff. That was one TG back in 2012.

[rhino 2]

I know this may be a sensitive question, but does anyone else feel their TG is more "twitchy" at high speeds after raising the rear end, with the resultant decrease in caster/rake? Never really paid attention to it until trying to "fill in the corners" during Powervision Autuotune runs. Straight, flat roads, tires and shock pressure good, no side wind - 80+ Mph runs feel much more unstable than my 2014 Ultra ever did.

Nope all is good with the lifts, Been on since 2011...

[Fearless]

The only positive points we found for the lift kits were it kept you from scrapping your mufflers and made it easier to load into a trailer. Ours came off after 3000 miles and resides in a box of other misc. stuff. That was one TG back in 2012.

I have ridden our 09 trike as hard as I could in the twisties in PA mountains and flat out screamed down I-80 until my intercom partner was protesting with bodily harm to tender places. Our trike is lifted and it runs like a rocket sled on wheels, sorry to hear you had problems. ride safely fearless

P.S. I have run down 2 wheelers in the turns before amazing for even me!

[FuzzyWuzHe]

I concur with Kevin ... air pressure in the tires makes all the difference.

[scooterbum46]

Note this wasn't a "twisties" issue. I'm talking straight line, no cross wind high speed. The only thing close to what I've ever experienced was a 69 Camaro with super fast steering box and very little feedback. I could push the Street Glide or the Ultra beyond the century mark without the feeling that just a little too much input on the bars was going to start something ugly.. The TG just does not have that feeling of stability. I know on the 'wing conversions that they put rake kits on to ease steering effort, but I understand at the same time you get the turning radius of a school bus. I'll go back over the tire pressures, shock pressure and any chassis related possibilities.

[eighty80]

I will have to agree with you (46). But I am not sure if it is the lift kit or just a characteristic of the HD trike. I don't know how many on here have gone that fast for a long period of time or how often, but I have and still do.

However, I had the lift kit installed right of the showroom floor, along with pipes and 255 cams. So I can't say the touchy handle bars is from the lift kit. It also took a little to get to 100mph, but at that speed you best be paying attention.

Then came the 120R in the trike. No lift kit change, but way way over 100mph and it got there quickly. What I found is the trike seems to fight with the crown of the road, which makes sense, but instead of letting it do that, I would fight it and it took very little effort in the bars. Unlike like my heritage at 100 plus that just seems to find it's plane or groove.

I did play with the 36/24/24 set up and like it there. I am not complaining about the touchiness of the the trike. I know it's there and just adapt. Different machine. Sometimes I get off one and jump on the other back to back and remind myself which I'm on. All good!

I will also say, as much as I like speed, I more or less detuned the 120R, if you wanna call it that? It was way, way too far past 100 mph for me. So a different cam was installed to bring HP down and TQ up. Much better suited for the trike although it has nothing to do with the lift kit or handling. It will get to 100 very quickly then back off, which I luv.

So,... in the end, I think your issue is not the lift kit but more of a difference in machines at long periods of high speed.

And to add for everyone reading this, long periods at high speed for me means 100 plus for 15 to 20 miles on the freeway or turnpike. Reckless and illegal? Yes! But fun and I put no one in harms way but me.

[Livin2Ride]

Note this wasn't a "twisties" issue. I'm talking straight line, no cross wind high speed. The only thing close to what I've ever experienced was a 69 Camaro with super fast steering box and very little feedback. I could push the Street Glide or the Ultra beyond the century mark without the feeling that just a little too much input on the bars was going to start something ugly.. The TG just does not have that feeling of stability. I know on the 'wing conversions that they put rake kits on to ease steering effort, but I understand at the same time you get the turning radius of a school bus. I'll go back over the tire pressures, shock pressure and any chassis related possibilities.

I've found that the biggest issues with straight line performance have to do with what you have done to the front end.. Things like windshield changes or the addition of the fork mounted wind deflectors. I use 3 different windshields depending on where I'm going and the season and a set of JES wind deflectors. Every time I change the windshield I can tell the difference in the handling.

[Livin2Ride]

I have ridden our 09 trike as hard as I could in the twisties in PA mountains and flat out screamed down I-80 until my intercom partner was protesting with bodily harm to tender places. Our trike is lifted and it runs like a rocket sled on wheels, sorry to hear you had problems. ride safely fearless

P.S. I have run down 2 wheelers in the turns before amazing for even me!

I did not say it wouldn't handle in the twisties, I just don't think it handles any better that a stock setup. As for screaming down the slab the lift kit doesn't effect that one way or the other IMO. The one main reason I took the lift off and left it off was my passenger didn't like it because she felt it made her slide forward on the seat more under braking and since I wasn't feeling any great benefit I took it off.

[Ed Hobgood]

Anytime you make a change in ride height it will take a little off the handeling the factory made for the trike. Center of gravity is key to performance, the lower the better I say but with that being said you want to go down the road without worring about dragging something off. Changing anything will take a little time to get use to.

[scooterbum46]

I appreciate the responses.. Note no front end changes, I put Kevin's kit ( recommended by the dealer) on about three weeks after getting the TG a year ago. We've only got about 6K on it, with the two up riding being fairly mild as far as speed, probably 60 or 65 Mph tops. The tuning runs where I first really noticed the twitchy or less stable feel are on a wide, flat 20 mile stretch of Florida backroad blacktop (won't say where, but No houses on most of the road) that's perfect for the various combinations of Rpm/Speed that are necessary to duplicate dyno conditions (looking out for hogs, of course).

This is the same trike that had the entire rear suspension off while diagnosing what turned out to be a defective drive pulley (wobbled). They went to a lot of trouble to verify alignment at the time, I put the lift on after that and went over all fasteners at that time. I get a chance though, I'll talk to them..

[FuzzyWuzHe]

My money is still on alignment ... after they replaced my belt (warrantee) the tech said my trike was out a lot. It handles so much better now.

[Sloufoot]

Another thing that can effect the "touchy feeling" is the amount of weight in the tour pac & nothing in the trunk. Top weight works like a lever on the center of gravity.

[tfdeputydawg]

Please don't leave us hangin......... Let us know what you find out for our education!
I read all the responses thus far. I find it extremely hard to accept the "handling" could change enough to cause your concern by simply adding a lift kit to your trike!
Do the math(simple triangle problems to solve) and you will find an almost nonexistent change in the steering geometry
As for loading the tour pack heavy enough to cause this. Maybe a chunk of lead that would fill the tour pack but, the tour pack would most likely crack/break
Just an opinion.

[Sloufoot]

Please don't leave us hangin......... Let us know what you find out for our education!
I read all the responses thus far. I find it extremely hard to accept the "handling" could change enough to cause your concern by simply adding a lift kit to your trike!
Do the math(simple triangle problems to solve) and you will find an almost nonexistent change in the steering geometry
As for loading the tour pack heavy enough to cause this. Maybe a chunk of lead that would fill the tour pack but, the tour pack would most likely crack/break
Just an opinion.

I agree it would take quite a bit of weight to make a difference.
But last summer I ran across a feller that had put a plastic trash bag in his tour pac & filled it with ice & beer. Filled it to the point of having trouble closing the lid. Had to have at least 20# of ice in there.
I have the lifts on my tri & find nothing close to making anything unstable. There is a slight quickness to the steering that wasn't there before, but that has been a positive.
The trike will follow the crappy roads a bit back & forth, but nothing close to dangerous !
I think if you are unfamiliar with the Tri handling then modify it a bit that might make you feel uneasy. Never has caused any problems as soon as you get used to it.

[3FOR2]

I have to reiterate LIVIN2RIDE's post #9. A lot of people don't realize what a windshield change can do. I put a Clearview, with a top recurve, 4" wider than stock, and a couple inches taller on a Rocket III MT. On a straight, flat, Interstate, at 75, starts a bit of wobble. At 95, it's like you're on ice. Pretty weird. Put stock windshield back on. No more wobble. Just saying...

[Randyman69]

I have to reiterate LIVIN2RIDE's post #9. A lot of people don't realize what a windshield change can do. I put a Clearview, with a top recurve, 4" wider than stock, and a couple inches taller on a Rocket III MT. On a straight, flat, Interstate, at 75, starts a bit of wobble. At 95, it's like you're on ice. Pretty weird. Put stock windshield back on. No more wobble. Just saying...

Hi everyone, I have a 2012 TG with the lift kits for both the suspension and the tour pak coupled with a Dakota Shield wide/tall windshield. I have not noticed any negative handling characteristics.

Matter-of-fact it handles better than before. Thank you.

[scooterbum46]

Please don't leave us hangin......... Let us know what you find out for our education!

I read all the responses thus far. I find it extremely hard to accept the "handling" could change enough to cause your concern by simply adding a lift kit to your trike!

Do the math(simple triangle problems to solve) and you will find an almost nonexistent change in the steering geometry

As for loading the tour pack heavy enough to cause this. Maybe a chunk of lead that would fill the tour pack but, the tour pack would most likely crack/break

Just an opinion.

OK, one thing - this "aint my first rodeo", I've been riding most of my life (well over 50 years). I can tell you about stability and or lack thereof. If you want to feel lack of stability, I'll let you ride my '56 Cushman Eagle with the 18 horse V twin Briggs Vanguard at 80 Mph. As far as the TriGlide, I don't ride with a heavy keg of beer on the TourPack rack, under-inflated tires or loose head bearings. The windshield is stock, the tires aren't cupped, the lug nuts are tight and I recently waxed it. One thing I will do and she probably won't like it, is load my SO onto the bike and try a little higher speed than we normally ride, on the same road, in the same conditions. And if it's more stable, as I think it will be, then we'll have another discussion.

One other thing - why does Lehman say that more rake (6 degrees) makes the steering easier and the lift vendors say less rake (about a degree for 1.6" of body lift) makes steering easier?

[Sloufoot]

OK, one thing - this "aint my first rodeo", I've been riding most of my life (well over 50 years). I can tell you about stability and or lack thereof. If you want to feel lack of stability, I'll let you ride my '56 Cushman Eagle with the 18 horse V twin Briggs Vanguard at 80 Mph. As far as the TriGlide, I don't ride with a heavy keg of beer on the TourPack rack, under-inflated tires or loose head bearings. The windshield is stock, the tires aren't cupped, the lug nuts are tight and I recently waxed it. One thing I will do and she probably won't like it, is load my SO onto the bike and try a little higher speed than we normally ride, on the same road, in the same conditions. And if it's more stable, as I think it will be, then we'll have another discussion. One other thing - why does Lehman say that more rake (6 degrees) makes the steering easier and the lift vendors say less rake (about a degree for 1.6" of body lift) makes steering easier?

Both operations shorten the trail in the front suspension. But 1.6"lift is too much rear lift. Most kits are 1.25".

You need to talk to Bazooka on here.

He owns the Trike Talk Forums. He also sells a rake kit complete. His kit does a 5* rake from the stock of 2.75* triple tree.

But Zook can answer your questions the best on the subject.

When I was a kid living in Arizona my neighbor had a Cushman Eagle. I don't think it had a briggs engine tho. I had a Cushman scooter with a body. Had trouble finding an engine because the original turned counter clockwise.