champion Reverse

[bounder04]

Has anyone with a champion reverse on an '09 Ultra CSC conversion had the isuue where the 6th gear light on the dash does not light up?
I was told that the 6th gear light does not work when you modify the tranny with reverse???

[bluesuedeshoes]

I installed Champion's reverse on my wife's Harley 6 speed and it should not affect if and when the 6th gear light comes on. I would check with CSC. The light should come on when the ECM determines the relationship between the RPMs and the MPH would be in 6th gear. I don't know anything about your kit, but does the kit change your final gearing?

[bounder04]

not sure, trying to find that out, but i know I am +3MPH at 55MPH according to the GPS.

[ultraboy]

The Champion (or AIM) reverse kits do not affect the 6th gear light operation, nor any other function of the trans, gearing or otherwise. They are simply three gears, one on the end of the mainshaft, one on the end of the countershaft, and one idler which connects the other two together, making 'reverse' when the trans is in neutral.
What will prevent the operation of the 6th gear green light is installation of a 30 tooth sprocket on the motor, to give a more reasonable primary ratio of 1.53:1, vice the 6 speeds anemic stock 1.35:1 ratio. While the 30 tooth motor sprocket does give much better acceleration, it eliminates the compensator, a no-no is some folks eyes. Stock 6 speeds on 2-wheelers are already plagued by a 68 tooth rear drive sprocket, and need all the help they can get when adding the weight of a trike kit. It was refreshing to see that Mother Harley went to a 70 tooth rear drive sprocket on the Tri-Glide.
I could go on and on, ad nauseum about HD primary and secondary ratios, but, we'll save that for another time.
On second thought, I may have started it here, by slightly bending this thread, LOL.

UB

[Mr.Wizard]

If you will be getting a tuner for your 09 conversion then consider the TTS..

OK, why am I talking about tuners?

The TTS has two programs built in. One for the calculating your end ratio by using gearing and tire roll out. When flashing the ECM it will ask you for this number and calibrate your speedometer for you. Check your speed against your GPS, bet you are off by 4 to 6 MPH with that new conversion.

Next, the 6th gear light can be fixed with a software change. A TTS, in the Tuning Constant menu, has the ability to work with the ECM and the VSS. You will find the normal Primary Ratio at 1.353 (as UB stated above) but you can change it with a click of a mouse. If the ratio is changed from 1.353 to something lower such as 1.330 or 1.320 your 6th gear light will start working again.

SIDE NOTE: This is a common bug in the new 2010 transmissions due to the change in the 5th gear cut, the old sensor is mounted at an angle will not allow the sensor to read gear teeth properly and turn on the 6th gear light. The same fix for this is the same fix for a conversion trike.

The HD Super Pro Tuner (SEST) doesn't have the capabilities to do this so it must be the TTS Mastertune.


-wiz

[bounder04]

Thank you both so much for sharing some light on this issue.
When I changed the head pipes, I had the stage I kit installed as well and also purchased the screaming eagle ECM calibration module so the bike was re-mapped by my H-D dealer. Is this ECM tunner what is use to re-calibrate the primary ratio as indicated above??

[Mr.Wizard]

Thank you both so much for sharing some light on this issue.
When I changed the head pipes, I had the stage I kit installed as well and also purchased the screaming eagle ECM calibration module so the bike was re-mapped by my H-D dealer. Is this ECM tunner what is use to re-calibrate the primary ratio as indicated above??

Sorry bounder... I'll bet that's the SEST I was talking about. It doesn't have this feature to fix your 6th gear light. Look at it to see if it says TTS Mastertune or Screamin Eagle Super Pro Tuner (SEST). If it has a little button on the flat side it's the SEST.

Question, did they just flash the stage 1 map or did they flash a canned map that came with the SEST? Big difference in these two flashes and how your trike will run.

Now, if they charged you an extra 400 or more bucks for "the tune" then it was put on a dyno.

[bounder04]

All this orange tunner has is Harley Davidson written on one side with the screamin eagle, a button and a red led on it. not sure what was flashed (did'nt ask) they did say it was a standard mapping they have for that year bike and model, but was not put on a dyno (dealer does not have one to fit trikes yet).
Should they have this TTS master tune or is this something else I need to purchase??

[Mr.Wizard]

All this orange tunner has is Harley Davidson written on one side with the screamin eagle, a button and a red led on it. not sure what was flashed (did'nt ask) they did say it was a standard mapping they have for that year bike and model, but was not put on a dyno (dealer does not have one to fit trikes yet).
Should they have this TTS master tune or is this something else I need to purchase??

That orange box is the SEST.

No trike dyno means they flashed the canned map from the SEST software. Once the SEST is used to flash a map to your ECM it marries to the ECM serial number and can't be used on any other ECM. Meaning, you can't take it back and get a credit for a TTS.

The SEST will do the tuning for you if you learn the "Smart Tune" feature. You will need their software and the cables.

The main issue with using the SEST canned map is... It's a generic map for your motor. Each motor is different. The main difference is in how each motor breathes. To match the map to your motor you need to calibrate the Volumetric Efficiencies or VE tables within your ECM to match the way your motor breathes. This is what is done on a dyno. The SEST Smart Tune feature will help you do this.

The second issue with using a canned map is the AFR's (air fuel ratio) (or the Lambda scale for a 2010 bike). (does the same thing). Your canned map is lean which will create heat and poor performance. A normal Harley will be shipped with about 70% of it's tune correct. That means you can retrieve another 30% with a good tuner but the last 5% is very tough so you need a really good tuner that knows exactly what he is doing. The Smart Tune that you can do yourself will give you another 20% or more performance. Not bad for a days work and if you know some secrets.

Guess we could go on all day but bottom like is... the SEST can't help you fix the 6th gear light.

Sorry for going on and on...


-wiz

[bounder04]

Hey, do'nt be sorry to help someone learn!!! Thank you.
I guess I need to have the bike Dyno tunned to enhance performance???
Do you know any shop that has the dyno capabilities for a trike??
Again Wizard, Thanks for your help:yes:

[Mr.Wizard]

Hey, do'nt be sorry to help someone learn!!! Thank you.
I guess I need to have the bike Dyno tunned to enhance performance???
Do you know any shop that has the dyno capabilities for a trike??
Again Wizard, Thanks for your help:yes:

Not really, you don't need a "dyno" to enhance performance. All you need is the software, two cables (one you already have in your house) and a computer that can get near the trike, laptop is helpful.

Secondly you will need to speak with someone that knows a few tweaks and secrets about tuning to have them give you a starter map... oh, lookie here... just happen to have one right here.... well how about that. But you must be willing to learn the art of flashing your bike... that will take you all of 20 minutes.

Finding a trike dyno is a needle in the haystack but they are out there. Unfortunately not all dyno operators are good dyno operators. I'll take a bike that is 90% any day over a dyno map by a poor operator.

Unfortunately your 6th gear light will still not work.

[Shriner Jim]

This 6th gear light is something else. I installed the EVO 30t primary sprocket and it did not effect my cruise control or my 6th gear light. I just didn't like not having the compensator and it seemed to make a lot of noise. So out they went and I bought an Andrews 30t pulley. The noise went away and I still had the advantage of shorter gearing. The 6th gear light and the cruise control worked fine.
I triked it with the Roadsmith kit. Included in this kit is a Speedo Healer. I installed this unit and took a few rides with my GPS. My speedometer was off quite a bit. At a speedometer reading of 60mph, my GPS read 50. After I calculated the info needed for the Speedo Healer, I made the changes. The Speedo Healer really works, exactly on with the GPS.
Now the only problem is, NO 6th GEAR LIGHT! My HD must be a female, it always knows when its been screwed with and lied to.

[Mr.Wizard]

This 6th gear light is something else. I installed the EVO 30t primary sprocket and it did not effect my cruise control or my 6th gear light. I just didn't like not having the compensator and it seemed to make a lot of noise. So out they went and I bought an Andrews 30t pulley. The noise went away and I still had the advantage of shorter gearing. The 6th gear light and the cruise control worked fine.
I triked it with the Roadsmith kit. Included in this kit is a Speedo Healer. I installed this unit and took a few rides with my GPS. My speedometer was off quite a bit. At a speedometer reading of 60mph, my GPS read 50. After I calculated the info needed for the Speedo Healer, I made the changes. The Speedo Healer really works, exactly on with the GPS.
Now the only problem is, NO 6th GEAR LIGHT! My HD must be a female, it always knows when its been screwed with and lied to.

That's pretty much what I did but I used the Dakota module to adjust the speedo. Although I use a TTS and can fix the 6th gear light I still have the Dakota module on the trike... just too lazy to take it off but my speedo is right on!

I don't miss the light at all... I know my RPM's to MPH ratio and besides... I'm too busy enjoying the ride and the scenery to notice anyway.

:yes:

[ultraboy]

Care must be taken when installing EVO's 30 tooth motor sprocket, as most of them that I have done need a little extra clearance on the inside of the new chain to prevent that noise. frankly, I'm with Wiz on the 6th gear light, don't need it.

[Mr.Wizard]

Care must be taken when installing EVO's 30 tooth motor sprocket, as most of them that I have done need a little extra clearance on the inside of the new chain to prevent that noise. frankly, I'm with Wiz on the 6th gear light, don't need it.

UB

Have you found a part number, maybe Gates, for the smaller touring belt that goes with the 30t front pulley. Not the 1 1/8th but the 1" belt part number.

I found one a while back but can't seem to find it or the receipt.

[Shriner Jim]

That's pretty much what I did but I used the Dakota module to adjust the speedo. Although I use a TTS and can fix the 6th gear light I still have the Dakota module on the trike... just too lazy to take it off but my speedo is right on!

I don't miss the light at all... I know my RPM's to MPH ratio and besides... I'm too busy enjoying the ride and the scenery to notice anyway.

:yes:

100% on that. I use my tach and speedo together. I try not to get under 2500 rpm.....that makes me happy. Besides I can hear when I am in 5th rather than 6th; 2008 5th gear sounds off.:eek:

[bounder04]

Well, I'mm giving up on the 6th gear light.... My speedo is only 3 mph off per the GPS at 55; SO IT IS NOT A CONCERN!!