Meziere-Reverser-web-ad-90x750-r3 copy

150 Most Recent Posts

Thread AuthorPostersPost AuthorForumThread/Post Link
Grandpot1GrandpotHonda TrikesFront tire?
Geep20201Geep2020New Member Introduct...New Member
Oldman-TriGlide3NotgrownupHarley Tri GlideOpen or Closed Trailer for 2028 Tri...
Oldman-TriGlide3ultrafxrHarley Tri GlideOpen or Closed Trailer for 2028 Tri...
Noodles1073BrokenBackJackHarley Freewheeler /...Very Nice Gloves
Oldman-TriGlide3Oldman-TriGlideHarley Tri GlideOpen or Closed Trailer for 2028 Tri...
RedOregon13Papa ZookHarley Tri GlideUpgrades on '24 Triglide?
Bama boy4DragonStallion TrikesStallion fuel pump
Bama boy4DragonStallion TrikesStallion fuel pump
Bama boy4DragonStallion TrikesStallion fuel pump
Papa Zook239SullyNew Member Introduct...What Made You Join TrikeTalk Forum?
RedOregon13RedOregonHarley Tri GlideUpgrades on '24 Triglide?
RedOregon13NotgrownupHarley Tri GlideUpgrades on '24 Triglide?
phillipschuckann7NotgrownupHonda TrikesWho made my trike?
Papa Zook239ol' schoolNew Member Introduct...What Made You Join TrikeTalk Forum?
PKLGW2pawsHonda Trikes2007 gl1800 motor trike
ultrafxr5Papa ZookHarley Tri GlideFinished at last . . . well at leas...
Noodles1073NotgrownupHarley Freewheeler /...Very Nice Gloves
ultrafxr5NotgrownupHarley Tri GlideFinished at last . . . well at leas...
Papa Zook239rhino 2New Member Introduct...What Made You Join TrikeTalk Forum?
PKLGW2PKLGWHonda Trikes2007 gl1800 motor trike
Papa Zook239skisnow806New Member Introduct...What Made You Join TrikeTalk Forum?
Speedy Pete12JTJerseyNew Member Introduct...New member from Alberta, Canada
Just BOB2Just BOBStallion Trikesinfo
ultrafxr5Longbeard71Harley Tri GlideFinished at last . . . well at leas...
ultrafxr5ultrafxrHarley Tri GlideFinished at last . . . well at leas...
ultrafxr5TrampasHarley Tri GlideFinished at last . . . well at leas...
ultrafxr5ultrafxrHarley Tri GlideFinished at last . . . well at leas...
Noodles1073Noodles107Harley Freewheeler /...Very Nice Gloves
Speedy Pete12cycle7447New Member Introduct...New member from Alberta, Canada
RISal24!12cycle7447New Member Introduct...New member..new to trikes
phillipschuckann7Papa ZookHonda TrikesWho made my trike?
RISal24!12ol' schoolNew Member Introduct...New member..new to trikes
Bama boy4Grey_Ghost_27Stallion TrikesStallion fuel pump
phillipschuckann7trike ladyHonda TrikesWho made my trike?
RISal24!12trike ladyNew Member Introduct...New member..new to trikes
Speedy Pete12RustyBNew Member Introduct...New member from Alberta, Canada
RISal24!12Marc HNew Member Introduct...New member..new to trikes
Bowie11RustyBNew Member Introduct...New to trike, old time rider
RISal24!12RustyBNew Member Introduct...New member..new to trikes
RISal24!12rhino 2New Member Introduct...New member..new to trikes
RISal24!12hardwickbvNew Member Introduct...New member..new to trikes
Bowie11hardwickbvNew Member Introduct...New to trike, old time rider
RISal24!12Uncle FesterNew Member Introduct...New member..new to trikes
Bowie11ZammyNew Member Introduct...New to trike, old time rider
RISal24!12SullyNew Member Introduct...New member..new to trikes
RISal24!12ZammyNew Member Introduct...New member..new to trikes
Chief80138520fdHarley Tri GlideHow many miles on your Triglide?
RISal24!12GorillaNew Member Introduct...New member..new to trikes
RISal24!12RISal24!New Member Introduct...New member..new to trikes
woody19woodyHonda Trikes2019 Goldwing CSC
DK Custom Products362NotgrownupHarley Tri GlideWhat did you do to Your Tri-Glide T...
Bouncer10NotgrownupHarley Tri GlideDrive Belt Replacement Time
Bouncer10BouncerHarley Tri GlideDrive Belt Replacement Time
Bouncer10BouncerHarley Tri GlideDrive Belt Replacement Time
phillipschuckann7GorillaHonda TrikesWho made my trike?
rjd637brianlHonda Trikes1989 Honda Goldwing trike opinions
DeathBySnuSnu19GorillaVW Powered TrikesVolkswagen Kit Cars
DK Custom Products362520fdHarley Tri GlideWhat did you do to Your Tri-Glide T...
SHARKDIVER4DK Custom ProductsGeneral Harley Chatsuper shox
phillipschuckann7trike ladyHonda TrikesWho made my trike?
phillipschuckann7ol' schoolHonda TrikesWho made my trike?
phillipschuckann7rhino 2Honda TrikesWho made my trike?
phillipschuckann7phillipschuckannHonda TrikesWho made my trike?
Bowie11Uncle FesterNew Member Introduct...New to trike, old time rider
RedOregon13RedOregonHarley Tri GlideUpgrades on '24 Triglide?
DeathBySnuSnu19DeathBySnuSnuVW Powered TrikesVolkswagen Kit Cars
Bowie11woodyNew Member Introduct...New to trike, old time rider
Just BOB2GorillaStallion Trikesinfo
SHARKDIVER4WindyOneGeneral Harley Chatsuper shox
Bouncer10GorillaHarley Tri GlideDrive Belt Replacement Time
Just BOB2Just BOBStallion Trikesinfo
Chief80138CagmoHarley Tri GlideHow many miles on your Triglide?
PopPop13consitterNew Member Introduct...New Member
TxHarleyRider2Papa ZookHarley Trike Convers...Need help bad with conversion.
PopPop13Pegasus1300New Member Introduct...New Member
Bouncer10NotgrownupHarley Tri GlideDrive Belt Replacement Time
PopPop13ol' schoolNew Member Introduct...New Member
Bowie11ol' schoolNew Member Introduct...New to trike, old time rider
Chief80138DOKKHarley Tri GlideHow many miles on your Triglide?
Bouncer10BouncerHarley Tri GlideDrive Belt Replacement Time
Bowie11trike ladyNew Member Introduct...New to trike, old time rider
Bowie11GorillaNew Member Introduct...New to trike, old time rider
Bowie11rhino 2New Member Introduct...New to trike, old time rider
Bowie11Marc HNew Member Introduct...New to trike, old time rider
SaltBushBill11Marc HNew Member Introduct...New member
Bowie11BowieNew Member Introduct...New to trike, old time rider
Rick Sinacore9RawhidekenHarley Tri GlideTour pack reinforcement
SaltBushBill11Uncle FesterNew Member Introduct...New member
Burnerboy3tommyv333Harley Trike Convers...Hey Bozo (Andrew)
Old Aviator5Old AviatorHonda TrikesGreasing a Motortrike Coupe SA rear...
Old Aviator5Old AviatorHonda TrikesGreasing a Motortrike Coupe SA rear...
Noodles1073JTJerseyHarley Freewheeler /...Tobacco Fade
Noodles1073trike ladyHarley Freewheeler /...Tobacco Fade
Old Aviator5Phu CatHonda TrikesGreasing a Motortrike Coupe SA rear...
SaltBushBill11SullyNew Member Introduct...New member
ronc44242Papa ZookHarley Tri Glidequestion
TxHarleyRider2TxHarleyRiderHarley Trike Convers...Need help bad with conversion.
Chappy KC5StrelnikovFrankensteinFrankenstein Kit
jerry1@iw.net4StrelnikovFrankensteinFrankenstein owners
TxHarleyRider2Papa ZookHarley Trike Convers...Need help bad with conversion.
Skavoola14SkavoolaNew Member Introduct...New to Trike Talk
Old Aviator5GoldWingrGregHonda TrikesGreasing a Motortrike Coupe SA rear...
El Lobo10El LoboHarley Tri GlideBeen away for a while
SaltBushBill11GorillaNew Member Introduct...New member
cissywalton2GorillaCalifornia Sidecar T...how do I change out the reverse bel...
Noodles1073Noodles107Harley Freewheeler /...Tobacco Fade
Old Aviator5Old AviatorHonda TrikesGreasing a Motortrike Coupe SA rear...
SaltBushBill11trike ladyNew Member Introduct...New member
ronc44242ronc4424Harley Tri Glidequestion
Old Aviator5SkavoolaHonda TrikesGreasing a Motortrike Coupe SA rear...
Old Aviator5rhino 2Honda TrikesGreasing a Motortrike Coupe SA rear...
Old Aviator5Old AviatorHonda TrikesGreasing a Motortrike Coupe SA rear...
cissywalton2cissywaltonCalifornia Sidecar T...how do I change out the reverse bel...
Skavoola14PosseRiderNew Member Introduct...New to Trike Talk
Skavoola14woodyNew Member Introduct...New to Trike Talk
PopPop13woodyNew Member Introduct...New Member
Speedy Pete12woodyNew Member Introduct...New member from Alberta, Canada
Vulcanology10woodyNew Member Introduct...New member
SaltBushBill11woodyNew Member Introduct...New member
SaltBushBill11hardwickbvNew Member Introduct...New member
Vulcanology10hardwickbvNew Member Introduct...New member
Speedy Pete12hardwickbvNew Member Introduct...New member from Alberta, Canada
SaltBushBill11rhino 2New Member Introduct...New member
RedOregon13NotgrownupHarley Tri GlideUpgrades on '24 Triglide?
SaltBushBill11ol' schoolNew Member Introduct...New member
Vulcanology10ol' schoolNew Member Introduct...New member
Speedy Pete12ol' schoolNew Member Introduct...New member from Alberta, Canada
D'07ShadowAero6ol' schoolNew Member Introduct...My Older and Dear Friends Gideon! M...
SaltBushBill11scuzziNew Member Introduct...New member
SaltBushBill11SaltBushBillNew Member Introduct...New member
PopPop2Pegasus1300Can Am Spyder Trike...New Member
Vulcanology10GorillaNew Member Introduct...New member
Vulcanology10rhino 2New Member Introduct...New member
Speedy Pete12Marc HNew Member Introduct...New member from Alberta, Canada
Vulcanology10Marc HNew Member Introduct...New member
TxHarleyRider2TxHarleyRiderHarley Trike Convers...Need help bad with conversion.
Speedy Pete12trike ladyNew Member Introduct...New member from Alberta, Canada
rjd637trike ladyHonda Trikes1989 Honda Goldwing trike opinions
DrCrazyTrain13Uncle FesterNew Member Introduct...Introduction
Vulcanology10Uncle FesterNew Member Introduct...New member
Speedy Pete12Uncle FesterNew Member Introduct...New member from Alberta, Canada
Speedy Pete12rhino 2New Member Introduct...New member from Alberta, Canada
Vulcanology10ZammyNew Member Introduct...New member
Speedy Pete12ZammyNew Member Introduct...New member from Alberta, Canada
RedOregon13RKplus10Harley Tri GlideUpgrades on '24 Triglide?
RedOregon13RedOregonHarley Tri GlideUpgrades on '24 Triglide?
SHARKDIVER4DK Custom ProductsGeneral Harley Chatsuper shox
RedOregon13DK Custom ProductsHarley Tri GlideUpgrades on '24 Triglide?
DanTheMan1DanTheManNew Member Introduct...Where Have All The Good Trikes Gone...
Likes Likes:  7
Thanks Thanks:  0
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 28

Thread: Need help identifying motortrike irs disk brakes

  1. #1
    100+ Posts
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Sitka, Alaska USA
    Posts
    128
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default Need help identifying motortrike irs disk brakes

    As the title says, I'm trying to identify the rear disk brake members of a 2012 Motor Trike adv. It has the 7.5" Ford punkin and Ford spacing on the wheel lugs. It's an open-axle, Cv-joint setup with airbags.

    Motor Trike won't talk to me. The dealer in WA will say only that it's Ford brakes. Like Ford only ever made one caliper and pad set. Can you imagine slouching on the parts counter and saying "Yeah, give me some of those Ford brakes. That's right -- Ford!"

    So I could use some assistance from you folks who know these things.

    The brakes are 3-puck floating calipers. The pucks are an inch dia. They have two separate circuits. One line operates the two outer pucks and an independent line feeds the center.

    My problem (other than identifying them) is that they are mostly ineffective. I've tied both circuits together to add 30% more grab, changed the m/c to preserve the hydraulic advantage, and did that trick I read here where you overextend the pucks to adjust for grabby seals. I still have very anemic braking. Or to put it another way, even with 30% more piston surface, they suck.

    My choices seem to be either bad pads or jammed up pistons/not all pistons pushing proportionately. I can't investigate either without knowing what I'm looking at. Please enlighten me!

  2. #2
    1250+ Posts CrystalPistol's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Shenandoah Valley of Virginia
    Posts
    1,414
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Looking at a MT manual after 2006 ..... referring to the pads for the caliper with 3 pistons on same side .... looks like the numbers might be either MKD545 (book says alternatively D347). Take a pair of pads and go to my local auto parts and ask to compare to a set of pads bearing those numbers ..... or do a google and look at the pics?

    Do they look like these Duralast Pads below inlink? If so, any Advance, etc can cross them .... they are used on a lot of Ford rears

    http://www.autozone.com/brakes-and-t...?checkfit=true

  3. #3
    Senior Moderator
    Gold Club Member
    Gorilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Key Largo. Fl,. USA
    Posts
    15,112
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts

    Default

    As far as the brakes themselves after you get them working see if you have a residual valve in the brake line. If not get one for disk brakes and put it in. It helps to keep the fluid from back feeding into the reservoir after letting up on the brake.
    Stallion #406 // 2013 Tri-Glide

  4. #4
    100+ Posts
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Sitka, Alaska USA
    Posts
    128
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Is there a preferred residual pressure value for that valve, or is it a 'standard' that can be had by simply asking for a "disk brake residual valve"?

    And thanks for those numbers. I'll be chasing them down and reporting back!

  5. #5
    80+ Posts
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Dallas, TX, USA
    Posts
    81
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    If I'm not mistaken, they have the calipers made specifically for them & they aren't off of any car out there. If you tied all 3 pistons on each caliper together, you may be shooting yourself in the foot so to speak. MT keeps the linked braking that the 1800 has as a 2 wheeler, so if you tied all 3 together, you're also trying to apply the front brakes at the same time (unless you completely de-linked the front and rear brakes).

    Just a thought

  6. #6
    100+ Posts
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Sitka, Alaska USA
    Posts
    128
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Triker -- I have some rear suspension bits from the GW version of the Motor Trike, (bought the rear section from a wrecking yard) but I massaged them into my own Moto Guzzi-based trike design. So I have the brakes, but not the Goldwing. My brakes are not linked and the rear brake control is where your clutch lever ought to be.

  7. #7
    100+ Posts
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Sitka, Alaska USA
    Posts
    128
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CrystalPistol View Post
    Looking at a MT manual after 2006 ..... referring to the pads for the caliper with 3 pistons on same side .... looks like the numbers might be either MKD545 (book says alternatively D347). Take a pair of pads and go to my local auto parts and ask to compare to a set of pads bearing those numbers ..... or do a google and look at the pics?

    Do they look like these Duralast Pads below inlink? If so, any Advance, etc can cross them .... they are used on a lot of Ford rears

    http://www.autozone.com/brakes-and-t...?checkfit=true
    Rats! these numbers don't bring a pic that looks like mine. Are these calipers at least a standard size (mount points, etc) that I can toss and substitute for something else? I'm not using linked brakes and have no standing with Motor Trike (since I told them I'd built my own rig around their parts they've become reluctant to talk to me or supply parts), there are no service or warranty issues here.

  8. #8
    80+ Posts
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Dallas, TX, USA
    Posts
    81
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rodekyll View Post
    Triker -- I have some rear suspension bits from the GW version of the Motor Trike, (bought the rear section from a wrecking yard) but I massaged them into my own Moto Guzzi-based trike design. So I have the brakes, but not the Goldwing. My brakes are not linked and the rear brake control is where your clutch lever ought to be.
    ooooohhhhhhhhhhh... Well, that is a whole different story. A few things you may want to look at/consider then that can have a huge effect on brake quality and ability (learned some of this when I worked with Wilwood brakes on a project several years ago). The bore diameter of the master cylinder only a small part of the equation, total pedal travel as well as caliper fluid capacity must all be taken into account when deciding what master cylinder to use.

    If you have a large bore master cylinder, but limited pedal travel you will run out of travel before the plunger is fully compressed to apply brakes. If you get too small of a diameter MC, you will have a very short pedal travel, but a very hard brake that requires a large amount of effort to effectively stop the bike.

    Other side of that is the caliper. You may be running too many pistons @ the back. You may want to see if you can reduce the used pistons to 2 per caliper to get more effective use of the system. Kinda like converting a car to 4 wheel disc brakes from drum. If you don't have the right m/c AND calipers, you're gonna be in a world of hurt & headache.

  9. #9
    100+ Posts
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Sitka, Alaska USA
    Posts
    128
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    I originally used an 11/16 Nissin front brake pump with an adjustable stroke, flopped for use on the left handlebar. It was "soft" and ran out of stroke. I changed out to the 3/4" pump and have a good stroke (about the same play and bottom as the really good front brakes). The 'feel' is neither soft (too small diameter) or woody/hard (too large dia). The tables say I'm in the acceptable low end of hydraulic ratio, after doing the math on the pistons and m/c bores and factoring in the pivot length and such of the radial m/c design. So I'm thinking the math part is right.

    I forgot to mention that the rotors show a nice sweep -- no misalignment of the pads or warpage indicated. the left side pads though seem to have worn 'wedge' shaped -- slightly thicker to the rear.

    So I'm leaning toward either the pistons aren't applying evenly or the pads have become crudded up. I'm headed out now to try one more bleed . . .

  10. #10
    80+ Posts
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Dallas, TX, USA
    Posts
    81
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Also, make sure the slide pins are free and not binding.. I've seen people replace half their braking system only to find the caliper slide pins were the culprit all along.

    I've saw one seized on the pins so badly that I couldn't move the caliper with a pry bar.

    ALSO - You may have caliper issues if you're running DOT 4 fluid. Since it's hygroscopic & absorbs moisture into the system. It will "push" the moisture into the caliper & cause corrosion in the internal parts of the caliper & create all kinds of issues. (Essentially, this is the entire cause for Honda's massive recall on their braking system).

  11. #11
    100+ Posts
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Sitka, Alaska USA
    Posts
    128
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    The slider stuff could be an issue, and I'll double-check them. I found one bolt was seized in the bushing when I disassembled yesterday. I freed and greased the bushing. The other three bolts unthreaded easily once torque was relieved, so I didn't go further with them. Should both the inside and outside of the slider bushings be greased?

    I am running dot 3.

  12. #12
    1250+ Posts CrystalPistol's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Shenandoah Valley of Virginia
    Posts
    1,414
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rodekyll View Post
    Rats! these numbers don't bring a pic that looks like mine. Are these calipers at least a standard size (mount points, etc) that I can toss and substitute for something else? I'm not using linked brakes and have no standing with Motor Trike (since I told them I'd built my own rig around their parts they've become reluctant to talk to me or supply parts), there are no service or warranty issues here.
    Well, the book I looked at, it says the ones up 2003-2006 used special to Motor Trike calipers and pads available only through Motor Trike ... they refer to them as "Original Disc Brake System". Those had 4 piston calipers that did not float and which used 4 pads in each caliper. To service those you call MT at 1-800-908-7453. They do use 4 lugs.

    The 2006 and newer ones are floating calipers with 3 pistons. "New Style Upgrade 2006 and Later" is what they call them. The book says those two numbers fit. In the pics, the hub has a 5 lug pattern.

    Maybe take a look at Rock Auto's on line parts and pick some Ford rear brake setups and look through for something that looks similar to your pads .... or post us some pics of yours?

    Don't know what else to offer????

  13. #13
    80+ Posts
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Dallas, TX, USA
    Posts
    81
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rodekyll View Post
    The slider stuff could be an issue, and I'll double-check them. I found one bolt was seized in the bushing when I disassembled yesterday. I freed and greased the bushing. The other three bolts unthreaded easily once torque was relieved, so I didn't go further with them. Should both the inside and outside of the slider bushings be greased?

    I am running dot 3.

    I can only speak for myself, but when I grease caliper slide pins, I fully remove the pins from the bushings and grease the entire pin (plus if the pin has corrosion, I can correct that at the same time). Like I said, that may only be me.

    While you run dot 3 fluid, the bike you got the kit off of would have run dot 4 & the damage may have already been done. If you remove the calipers from the bike and place a block of wood in the caliper, do the pistons press out evenly or does one of them appear to "stick"? When you compress them, do they seem to press in nice and uniform, or does one or more piston seem to be hanging up? May help determine if there is an internal issue in the calipers that way. Just a thought?

  14. #14
    100+ Posts
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Sitka, Alaska USA
    Posts
    128
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    My apologies for being late back. I'm a nomad on the road and have limited opportunites for internet.


    Did I mention that the calipers were on a shelf for a few years while I built a trike to hold them?

    I'm outside of Milwaukie for a few days helping a guy work on his sidehack. It's a few days work, board, and shelter, and I'm good at what I do. I have a garage available, so I'm delving into this a bit deeper before I move on.

    All comments are being factored in, so even if I don't reference you directly, I appreciate your thouhgts and I AM PAYING ATTENTION!

    Yes, the pistons are reluctant -- do not move readily nor evenly. Their movement is appalling compared to the easy movement of the brembos on this hack project. Any tips on how to deal with them if I can't verify a source for seals and such?

    There is the possibility that the part# and alternative part is correct, but shows the wrong picture. I will remove a pad and bring it to the parts house -- will report back.

  15. #15
    100+ Posts
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Sitka, Alaska USA
    Posts
    128
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    hmmm. Reading my last post I think I might have misspoken. When I aid "I am a nomad" I meant I have no permanent address -- nomadic.


    I bit the bullet and disassembled the calipers. They have long pistons and there are two square (box crossection) O-rings in each bore. I cleaned and dressed up everything, reassembled, cleaned and greased the sliders and reassembled/reinstalled.

    I replaced the broken brake line with AN4 stock and reduced to 3/16 as needed.

    Maybe the stiff action of the calipers is just the way it is. Even with the cleanup (did not replace the orings) they are reluctant to move like other automotive brakes I have known. I'm doing the hot tricks to get the m/c up, and progress is slow. I have some pressure up but the feels is still sub-acceptable. The pull is almost to the handlebar and feels soft.

    Before you conclude that the mc/ ratio is off -- the pull was in the ballpark before the brake line broke. It's much lower now. I'm wondering if this could be an effect of freeing up the pistons -- more piston travel = more stroke needed. OR does it mean a residual valve is indicated?

  16. #16
    80+ Posts
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Dallas, TX, USA
    Posts
    81
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Something in your reply caught my attention.. Broken brake line. Are you using any rubber brake line, or do you have 100% steel/braided lines installed? If you have rubber lines (or any measurable length of them), they can swell (and will swell as they age) which can GREATLY affect braking, especially on motorcycles/trikes.

    I learned that lesson the hard way when I used to race sport bikes! The last race bike I had I was able to pull the lever all the way to the grip standing still with only mild effort, I thought it was good enough until I crested that blind hill going way too fast (still amazed I didn't wreck). I replaced ALL of my brake lines with 100% braided stainless lines and was shocked at the change! I could no longer pull my lever to the grip even using both hands & squeezing as hard as I could. I made a HUGE change in braking of the bike (I was even able to use only 2 fingers to bring it to a screeching halt in normal use).

    Sounds like an interesting caliper set up to say the least. Were there any signs of pitting, corrosion, or unusual wear that you could determine on the pistons, or cylinder walls? Did the seals feel right, or were they hard/worn?

  17. #17
    100+ Posts
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Sitka, Alaska USA
    Posts
    128
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    I replaced the broken line with a hard-cored, stainless braid, rubber coated 4AN flexible line with standard AN fittings. The outboard rear lines are soft -- I don't think they have steel braid in the carcass. There are a few feet of that from the center point to the calipers. They could be contributing to the softness of the lever. I didn't think about line softness as part of the problem, but it well could be.

    I do have some improvement after the caliper cleanup. I hit a load of firewood as it was falling off the truck ahead of me, and one of the bouncing sticks hit a front brake line. I made it another couple of hours on back roads to a safe place with rear brakes only. Luckily the hit only loosened a banjo fitting and a wrench/bleed later it was fixed. My point though is that the rears were enough to maneuver and stop with.


    No, I expected gummy corrosion in the bores and pistons, but they look pristine. I dressed them with crocus cloth but noticed no improvement in the piston action. I don't know how the O-rings are supposed to seat, but they might be slightly swelled.


    Greasing the sliders did make a noticeable difference. The pull to the right disappeared --brakes straight now. Looking at the pad wear (inside pads on both sides noticeably more worn then the outsides, but plenty of meat on the bones) I think the sliders were sticking. I really want to replace the piston seals and pads before replumbing the soft lines. Those lines are expensive!

    The circle track shop that made the brake line took a look at the calipers and pads and thought they do indeed look Ford, but they deal in aftermarket (wildwood, etc) components and couldn't be definite about the ford application. Pictures in the book match up to various Ford Windstar/Explorer stuff, but the pictures don't match the parts pulled. I may try to find a brake reliner with a sense of humor and get some sticky surface bonded to these pad plates.

    Yes, the calipers are interesting. I see similar 2-circuit arrangements in the racing world, but nothing with two circuits and tiny pistons. I suspect that despite what was relayed by the dealer from MT, these are not pure Ford. I think maybe the solid side of the calipers are, but the piston side might have been commissioned specifically for the GW 1800 adventure kit.

    Thanks for the insights on the soft hoses. When I can afford another maintenance day and have close access to parts I will double-check my construction and replace what looks sub-par.

  18. #18
    200+ Posts lgjhn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    SW Louisiana
    Posts
    211
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Default

    I know this thread is over 2 years old, but I just wanted to share a little info that may help someone down the road in the future.

    FWIW, I just spent a couple of days on a 2010 MotorTrike with IRS and rear discs that were similar to those described in this thread.

    The kit is installed on a 2004 GL1800.

    The owner is a good friend, and I let him take a short spin on my Roadsmith. When he came back from the ride, he was "wowed" by how good my rear brakes were. He said those on his MotorTrike were marginal and had been that way since the conversion in 2010. He had it back to the converter several times to no avail in making the brakes any better. They told him that's "just the way they are". He asked me to take a look to see if I could do anything to make em better. The front calipers were in pretty rough shape and I rebuilt those, new pads, bled and got a good, solid front hand brake. Next, I moved to the rears that he had complained about.

    First off, the pads for these calipers are Wagner ZX881 (2002-2004 Ford Explorer) and the sliders and rubber boots are found in a Raybestos Hardware Kit: H5634A. The sliders will need one end ground off flush to fit these calipers. Since that one end is cut off, I used a small drop of red loc-tite under em just to hold and keep em in place.

    I flushed and bled the brakes but still could not get a firm pedal or anything any better than what he already had. I was somewhat frustrated with it, but then, I just happen to notice that these MT calipers actually have 4 bleeder screws per caliper. 1 top, 1 bottom and the 2 obvious ones in the center. The very top and bottom ones are somewhat "hidden" in behind the caliper mounting bolts and very easy to miss. They're in a very tight spot so I ditched the crescent and just use a socket and wiped up the mess. I missed em on the first go around. Once I found those, I completely re-bled rear system (Including the rear portions on the front of the bike per Honda's sequence). On the rear calipers, I went from bottom to top utilizing all the bleeders on each caliper to do this. The rear brakes are now rock solid and he's one happy camper....so am I...LOL.

    FWIW, by the looks of the top & bottom bleeders, they had never been touched. I suspect that his converter may have also "missed" them during the original conversion, and he's been riding all this time with a small air cushion in the rear system causing the marginal braking.

  19. #19
    100+ Posts
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Sitka, Alaska USA
    Posts
    128
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Thanks for the great response! those part numbers will be very helpful. I found a pad that was very close, but the claw bit in the back of each was too large to fit into the hollow part of the center piston. I had to grind off the rivet and remove the claw for installation. The calipers are a real chore to bleed.

    You mention having to grind on the sliders. I'm assuming you mean on the caliper, not the pads. Would it be possible to grind the pads instead?

    I've learned a lot about these calipers since this thread was active. If you already know all this, please bear with me -- some following the topic might not. The calipers have three pistons. The two outer pistons are controlled by one brake circuit and the center one is controlled by an independent circuit. You probably noticed the two hoses going to each caliper. I do not know how motortrike uses these. I rigged mine to control the major circuit of both sides and one front caliper with one master cylinder, and the center pistons and the other front brake with my other m/c. So it's a dual linked brake scheme.

    The calipers can be used on either side. I believe that is why there are 4 adjusters, of particularly awkward size and location. The top and bottom bleeders communicate with the outer two pistons. That's so left or right, you've got a bleeder on top where the air is. I don't think there's any point in doing a conventional bleed from the bottom. However, I've used the bottom bleeder to do a reverse bleed (syringe pushing fluid from the caliper to the m/c).

    The two center bleeders (or side bleeders, if you prefer) purge the middle piston only. Like the outer bleeders, only the upper one will purge air.

    I'm still working on the brakes, although I've raised the suck bar a bit higher, and changed out my raked tele-forks for a leading link front end. The leading link has introduced a new set of problems, but it eliminated more than it has caused. Overall, the brakes have improved from awfully sucky all the time to slightly sucky most of the time. Although I still don't like the feel, they'll stop in all weather. I still think the rears can be more effective (current experiment described below).

    I'm just today replacing the mild steel reaction rods for my floating calipers with some fabbed 4130 tie rods with heim ends. I broke a reaction rod last month and the caliper went around the wheel, tearing out the hydraulics as it went. Luckily it was in a gas station parking lot and not on the freeway, and luckily, I have a redundant set of brakes (also described below). I felt silly but safe riding home with the left front caliper bungeed to the fender strut.The big problem I'm having with the brakes is that the front is too effective relative to the rear. I can lock the front wheel with little lever effort on any wet or loose surface, and I'm getting way too much weight transfer to the front. It feels like the back of the trike is pushing the front.

    I'd like to even that out. In cars they do it with metering and proportioning valves and residual pressure valves. A trike system doesn't generate enough pedal force to make the automotive stuff work, so in one of my brake circuits I'm trying a combination of a residual pressure valve to the rear (holds 2# pressure in the line to keep the pads closer to the rotor), and an adjustable proportioning valve on the FRONT brake line. The proportioning valve is a simple needle valve that allows from 100% flow to zero. My goal is to find a restriction point that balances the braking forces. I'll be road testing the concept as soon as I finish these new reaction rods.

  20. #20
    200+ Posts lgjhn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    SW Louisiana
    Posts
    211
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Default

    Hi David.

    When I mentioned "grinding" or "cutting off", I was talking about those little thin metal pieces that are found in the brake hardware kit that snap down over the caliper for the pads to slide on. These are the thin metal strips in the hardware kit. One end of em has to be cut flush in order to mount it onto the MT calipers....it's a minor fitment issue.

    Interesting stuff you've gone thru with these brakes. The stock Honda 2-wheeler Gold Wing had two lines running back to a single rear caliper with a 3-piston setup that appears identical to the MT setup, except, of course, MT has two rear calipers. I just assumed that the only difference is that MT took those two lines to the tee-block so that they could feed both sides of the trike rather than just the one single rear caliper. The 4 bleeders per caliper were kind of a surprise to me, but probably shouldn't have been. I've not seen that before, but once I realized what was going on, the system bled perfectly and the brakes worked fine.

    Anyway, hope you get all your brake issues worked out. Stay safe. LJ

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Brakes on a Motortrike kit.
    By bayoudave in forum Honda Trikes
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 03-12-2013, 11:01 AM
  2. Motortrike Brakes
    By Blackwillow in forum Honda Trikes
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 02-12-2013, 06:44 AM
  3. MotorTrike Brakes
    By sodamcq in forum Honda Trikes
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 07-01-2012, 12:05 AM
  4. Rear Disk Brakes
    By RLJO in forum VW Powered Trikes
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 12-26-2011, 11:10 PM
  5. GL 1500 Motortrike brakes
    By Wayne Harmsen in forum Honda Trikes
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 04-29-2009, 07:15 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •