03 GL / CSC Pulls to the right

[Saltywheels]

Have had a 03 GL / CSC kit (non-abs) with their custom brake kit. First time I had an "Oh s..." moment, I forgot & grabbed both brakes, as I had been riding with abs for a few yrs on 2-w. Trike pulled heavily to the right almost plastering me on to the passing semi. They move fast in LA! Remembered just in time & eased off while pumping. Got the local trike shop (JBJ Cycles..great guys!!) to flush & give her a once over. Better but still not confidence inspiring! I use both brakes & pump if it is gonna be a hard stop. Ride 2-up frequently. Any one have the same problems? Any solutions? Appreciate any pearls of wisdom. Darn I miss abs!!

[jim peacock]

Sounds like the back brakes are not engaugeing evenly.
May have air in the rear brake system.I beleve the right rear is closet to the rear brakes master cyclender.I would try to bleed the brake on the left rear wheel real good and see what happens.

[1550vt]

I'm no "brakespert", but have done some work in the area of motorcycle brakes. I assume these are disc and not drums?

It would be easy to diagnose if they were drums. Usually, a sharp pull one-way-or-another does not manifest itself in a disc system. Air in the lines will usually make both sides spongy. You may have an obstruction in the line on the left side, a piston/pistons sticking in that caliper...or some other blockage. Almost sounds like a "mystery" proportioning valve has been installed somewhere? You're not getting full pressure to the left side...which is obvious. Or, something mechanical in that side is failing or sticking.

I would replace the left caliper, bleed it all down again and see what happens. This is all based on the fact that you have said they have bled them down properly in the first place, but then...unless you watch and see what somebody did...you never know.

[Saltywheels]

Thks 1550vt. That is what I suspected as well. So I am planning to replace the left & bleed the system. Might try some of the fancier syntered disc pads. They used to work great on my 1300 FJR 2-wheeler! rgds

[1550vt]

There could be more to what you said than you may think. All things (pressure) being equal in both wheels...a set of contaminated pads could be an issue. There is a method used to run-in pads, but few people are aware of it or even do it. You can easily glaze pads. You could bleed them until you are blue in the face and never catch that.

IF your builder bled the system and said things are fine, then you have to have some other problem. He either has to be pulling your leg, or you have a caliper, piston, pad problem.

[Greydog]

I have the same problem with my Champion kit on an '08 Ultra. Zook gave me some good advice which was the same as I got from my dealer today. There's a valve that should be installed between the master cylinder and the tee on the Champion kits that is not present on my trike. I believe it's a recent revision and my kit did not include it. Gonna cost me $45.00 plus labor to have it installed. I rode in the rain last week and damn near lost it when I braked hard to turn onto a side road....scary to say the least!!!!

[Saltywheels]

I have the same problem with my Champion kit on an '08 Ultra. Zook gave me some good advice which was the same as I got from my dealer today. There's a valve that should be installed between the master cylinder and the tee on the Champion kits that is not present on my trike. I believe it's a recent revision and my kit did not include it. Gonna cost me $45.00 plus labor to have it installed. I rode in the rain last week and damn near lost it when I braked hard to turn onto a side road....scary to say the least!!!!

Thks guys. Appreciate the tip. Grey, what is the purpose of the valve? Equalizer? I need to find out if CSC has something similar.

[Greydog]

Thks guys. Appreciate the tip. Grey, what is the purpose of the valve? Equalizer? I need to find out if CSC has something similar.

I'm not sure exactly what it does. I think it is supposed to keep equal pressure to both calipers when the brakes are applied. I've had a mushy rear brake pedal since the kit was installed but just recently found that the left rear wasn't really doing much braking. It's also readily apparent when comparing the brake pad contact rings on the rotors. The right side rotor is polished from pad contact where the left side doesn't show much contact at all.

[Gorilla]

greydog did you order from Zook or Champion?

[skuuter]

...are we talkin' "Brake Proportioning Valve" here by chance...???

[Greydog]

greydog did you order from Zook or Champion?

My HD dealer is ordering it so I guess it's coming from Champion.

[Papa Zook]

Its from Champion and its really kind of a mini brake booster. Its so small (about 3" long and 1" across) it would seem to not have much effect, but it does seem to help. I called and talked with Champion's engineer about it because it began showing up with recent kits and I was not familiar with what exactly it was and its purpose. Well, I knew what it was just not how it worked.

The engineer I spoke with explained that it was designed to store about 3 lbs of pressure in a valve and when the pedal was applied it released that extra pressure and assisted in actuating the brake calipers. These calipers are much larger than stock and can really benefit from the extra boost these things give. Champion has said that many of their dealers are ordering extra of these to cure brake ails with other brands as well. I have not yet done so but I plan on it as these can easily be retro-fitted to any trike. If anyone needs or wants one PM me and I will get some coming.

BTW- Champion Trikes is a member here and reads and occasionally posts here. Hey Champion, you guys know more about these than I do so feel free to chime in if you read this.

Zook

[1550vt]

Skuuter....not a proportioning valve....sounds like a simple residual valve to me. Residual valves have been around for quite some time for both drum and disc brakes. They hold a slight amount of pressure in the system to prevent fluid from draining back into the master cylinder from calipers mounted above the master cylinder, which would be the case in about any foot-brake located master cylinder on a trike. How the system is plumbed also has something to do with it. I have my rear feed circuit running right up in the top of the frame in the center and then branch "down" to the calipers on flexible lines. No fluid can drain back to my master cylinder from either caliper, but a small amount could from the elevated line to the tee connection.

If I leave mine sitting by itself over the winter or several weeks at a time, I find it necessary to pump the pedal a time-or-two to remove the sponginess and then that's it...no more problems until I park it for long periods again. A residual valve would cure the problem, but it's a good habit to check the brakes every time you crank up anything to drive off in/on anyhow, so I have never bothered. I suspect what we are talking about here is a residual valve...that's what it sounds like. If Champion wants to call it a "booster" valve...that's fine too. I like the Champion folks and they have sold me parts that would fit my Lehman kit when Lehman wouldn't, but a residual valve for disc brakes can be had from several sources for just a few bucks...you just have to have someone install it if you can't.

[Papa Zook]

Did a little research and thats exactly what it is. Got the below info from a hotrod site, but it applies. In fact anyone with a trike that has any spongyness at all in their rear brakes or has to pump them a time or two to get a good pedal, needs one of these.

"2 PSI Valves - These valves are used in a disc brake system only and are required when the master cylinder is at, or below, the height of the calipers. It's purpose is to act as an anti-siphon valve preventing the brake fluid from siphoning back into the master cylinder when the brake pedal is released. Even if the master cylinder is even or slightly above the calipers, put one in anyway. If you don't and you park on a hill, fluid will siphon! These valves are cheap insurance - put them in!"

[1550vt]

U got it Zook. They come in lots of pretty colors too. Just plumb one in the main hydraulic circuit as close to the MC as possible, but I imagine installing it right on the brake tee would suffice, or the lowest point on the main circuit as possible. Be sure and get the right one. Drums are like 8-10 pounds and disc are like 2 pounds and they are directional. You can get them with various fittings, but they are usually tapped with 1/8 NPT threads for insertion of the proper adapter fittings (AN3, compression fittings, etc.). E-bay has gobs of them for around $10 and up.

[CadtoChrome]

Wing rear brakes are tied to the left front brake, hand brake goes to the right side front brake.

CSC does not use any sort of special valving in their systems.

Check that your getting proper brake action, when pushing the rear brake, the left front should also be applied. The bike takes care of proportioning, its possible there is an issue there.

Regards,
Chuck