Champion Trike rear wheel removal.

[Regwal]

Hello everyone, newbie here. Is there a trick to removing the center cap (hubcap) for this trike? I don't want to damage anything, I have never seen a tool for removing those kinds of screws. Are they fake and the cap pops off, or do screws have to be removed.

 

[Regwal]

Never mind, was just reading past posts and found my answer. I'm sure I'll have other questions though.:clapping:

 

[Gorilla]

welcome aboard I see you figured out they were fake. Just FYI you can chip the plating off that cover if you are not careful with your pry tool.

 

[Regwal]

welcome aboard I see you figured out they were fake. Just FYI you can chip the plating off that cover if you are not careful with your pry tool.

Thanks for the tip, I was careful. My plan was to see why I have to pump brake to get pedal when stopping. I bled both bleeder screws on left side but not much air came out. Pedal is not any better so tomorrow I'll do the other side. I hope master cylinder is not bad. There are no leaks.

 

[Darth]

Thanks for the tip, I was careful. My plan was to see why I have to pump brake to get pedal when stopping. I bled both bleeder screws on left side but not much air came out. Pedal is not any better so tomorrow I'll do the other side. I hope master cylinder is not bad. There are no leaks.

Is this a kit that was recently installed? Did it have good brake pedal before and now it doesn't, or has it always been an issue? The reason I ask is that this is a fairly common complaint with some Champion trikes. I put a Champion kit on a 2009 HD Sportster two years ago and to this day you still have to pump twice to get decent pressure. I installed another Champion kit on another Sportster last year... sometime in that year Champion changed the design, the new kit was a different setup/master cylinder. It bled easy, and has excellent brake response.

 

[desertclassic]

Welcome aboard from New Mexico. There is a lot of people here who know what you are asking for. Jim

 

[Regwal]

Is this a kit that was recently installed? Did it have good brake pedal before and now it doesn't, or has it always been an issue? The reason I ask is that this is a fairly common complaint with some Champion trikes. I put a Champion kit on a 2009 HD Sportster two years ago and to this day you still have to pump twice to get decent pressure. I installed another Champion kit on another Sportster last year... sometime in that year Champion changed the design, the new kit was a different setup/master cylinder. It bled easy, and has excellent brake response.

I bought it used, it was installed in '06. It didn't have a lot of pedal when I got it but is worse now. The kit only has 30,000 miles on it so I'm wondering if it was always like this. I may try talking with Champion and see what they say. I did call them about something else and were more interested in selling me something than offering information. Thanks for that information.

 

[Regwal]

I just spoke with Jason at Champion. He said the residual valve is bad probably. I ask how you would know and he said "it's either good or bad"! At $60 to $70 plus shipping I want to investigate further. There must be a way to check this valve. Has anyone experienced this going bad and if so how did you know it? I guess that after bleeding and still weak pedal you would have to assume the valve is bad.

After looking system over in the manual, a residual valve appears to be nothing more than a check valve of sorts. Am I wrong about this?

 

[pcombe]

I just spoke with Jason at Champion. He said the residual valve is bad probably. I ask how you would know and he said "it's either good or bad"! At $60 to $70 plus shipping I want to investigate further. There must be a way to check this valve. Has anyone experienced this going bad and if so how did you know it? I guess that after bleeding and still weak pedal you would have to assume the valve is bad.

After looking system over in the manual, a residual valve appears to be nothing more than a check valve of sorts. Am I wrong about this?

On mine it is a check valve.

First to understand the master cylinder on your bike was never really intended to run a two brake system it's not large enough so the check valve is critical.

It drove me nuts bleeding the brakes on my trike when I built it.
I used a power bleeder and much persistence to get it bled. It helps to have some help for sure, to keep the reservoir filled and pump the brake.
The brakes on mine are Volkswagen and seem to be anti lock as I can never really skid the rear tires?

The power bleeder will get fluid to the system but manual bleeding will likely be necessary as well.
There are two bleeder petcocks on mine, I used the bottom bleeder to pull the fluid into the system and the top to bleed air after allowing it time to just set there and allow air to settle in one spot.

I promise it will require patience and then when you get mad walk away and come back and exercise more patience.

 

[Regwal]

After reading your post I will bleed, bleed and bleed. Did you bleed both sides or just the one longest from MC? My brakes are Toyota.

 

[pcombe]

After reading your post I will bleed, bleed and bleed. Did you bleed both sides or just the one longest from MC? My brakes are Toyota.

Im having trouble remembering the sequence, By the time I was finished i was so fed up with it I bled hell outta everything.:laugh:

Dot 5 fluid is what I used.
Walked away for a few hours and dealt with residual air through the upper bleed valve.

Since there is a check valve involved It would seem to make sense to bleed the line furthest from the master cylinder first?

If you open a bleed valve make sure you have a tube attached running into a bottle of fluid so you don't suck air into the system.

Fact is you could probably pull up the install instructions from the champion website.

 

[jjvw]

I could never get the brakes to work satisfactory on my kit. I found a larger master cylinder on eBay and the brakes now have a gradual pressure, but will lock up when stomped on. I think stock was 1/2" or 9/16" bore and was replaced by a 3/4 " bore.

 

[CrystalPistol]

I just spoke with Jason at Champion. He said the residual valve is bad probably. I ask how you would know and he said "it's either good or bad"! At $60 to $70 plus shipping I want to investigate further. There must be a way to check this valve. Has anyone experienced this going bad and if so how did you know it? I guess that after bleeding and still weak pedal you would have to assume the valve is bad.

After looking system over in the manual, a residual valve appears to be nothing more than a check valve of sorts. Am I wrong about this?

I plumbed a residual pressure valve into the rear lines of my Lehman trike a whole lot cheaper than that. I used a Wilwood (https://www.summitracing.com/search/product-line/wilwood-residual-pressure-valves) valve I picked up at Summit Racing.

Use 2 psi for disc brakes .... 10 psi for drum brakes (which have return springs).What they do is keep that amount of pressure on the system between them and the calipers or wheel cylinders. Keeps seals and such under slight pressure.

I used a 10 psi version as I have drum brakes and it reduced rear brake pedal travel a bit.

I think Champion's version as supplied with kit is a shorter looking deal that attaches at the outlet of the rear brake master cylinder.

 

[Regwal]

Didn't get into this today, Hopefully tomorrow will be better. This info is good to know stuff for a clueless person concerning the residual valves, like me. This pic looks a bit larger than mine but I guess it won't mater if it works. Thanks

 

[CrystalPistol]

Didn't get into this today, Hopefully tomorrow will be better. This info is good to know stuff for a clueless person concerning the residual valves, like me. This pic looks a bit larger than mine but I guess it won't mater if it works. Thanks

Longer maybe?

Note that at that link, two numbers come with two adapters, two do not. Mine came with the two adapters. I did have to make a couple of brake lines with correct Honda Bubble Flare on the one end, and a SAE Double flare where goes into adapter on valve.

If you have disc brakes on rear, the lower 2 PSI blue one will let the pads back away from the rotors.

The 10 PSI red one works with drum brakes that have return springs that pull the shoes away from drums.

The red one may hold the pads in contact slightly if used with disc brakes.

 

[Regwal]

I bled again this morning until I had used a small can of fluid. I have slightly more pedal at the moment unless it fades after sitting. It did before. Also looked at difficulties in replacing the residual valve and can't see how to work in that area without lifting body. Kinda stumped right now so hope the pedal holds.

 

[pcombe]

I bled again this morning until I had used a small can of fluid. I have slightly more pedal at the moment unless it fades after sitting. It did before. Also looked at difficulties in replacing the residual valve and can't see how to work in that area without lifting body. Kinda stumped right now so hope the pedal holds.

There is something to be said for allowing the bike to sit to concentrate residual air.

Removing the body sounds more scary than it actually is but just takes patience and some wrenches. you will need some help reaching bolts and lifting the shell.

I can have mine off in a hour or so.
If you lift the shell plan to take time to adjust drive belt etc.

 

[Regwal]

I let the bike run for 15 minutes then bled again without getting anything. Thought vibration would cause air to head toward left wheel. Pedal is still low but will pump up. Had a closer look at residual valve from the top and think it can be accessed that way. If not, the body will come off. Not giving up just yet on air though. Time permitting tomorrow I'll ride it over some rough roads then bleed again. I will try to get the wheel jacked up higher than master cylinder when bleeding. I'm getting pretty good at removing rear wheels through all this.

Wife is fussing and just said "if that valve needs changing then the bike must go to shop".:Shrug: Just wait 'til she wants help with her computer.

 

[Marc H]

Just for fun if you can find a way with the bleeders closed use a bungee to tie the pedal down.Leave it overnight and see what it does.I've used this method successfully on fronts before and I think I used it on the rear of my Champion but not 100% on that.

 

[Regwal]

Just for fun if you can find a way with the bleeders closed use a bungee to tie the pedal down.Leave it overnight and see what it does.I've used this method successfully on fronts before and I think I used it on the rear of my Champion but not 100% on that.

Thanks, I've tried that already but I did not raise the left side up. I plan on doing that very thing if using a bad road doesn't help. The problem is the brake is almost on level with MC and air wants to hang out somewhere else. This has been interesting to say the least.

I recently had to bleed and refill a clutch and ran into a problem removing air. What finally got me going was turning bars to right, removing MC cover, then letting bike run 1/2 hour. Vibration got rid of most air. This trike doesn't vibrate that much so has little to no effect.