Shocks, need help

[Big_Steve]

Hey guys,
I'm not too happy with my rear suspension when I'm taking a passenger. It handles great solo though. I have a motortrike, with air bags and progressive coil over gas shocks. The suspension is not independent. To make it bearable, I have to pump the bags way up (50 lbs). No matter what I set the shock coil adjustment on, the bike still leans uncomfortably in turns. I've also played with tire pressures.

I'm trying to figure out if it's a good bet (or not) that a more heavy duty set of shocks will help. The bike only has 9000 miles, and the trike was installed later, so it's less mileage.

How can I tell if my shocks are weak? Pressing down on the rear bumper, it's surprisingly easy to compress the suspension. On the other hand, the rear does not bounce like a car with bad shocks either. With air in the bags, the rear never bottoms out. One time when I was solo, I didn't realize the bags had leaked way down. At that time, the shocks did bottom out with just me on the bike. But I don't know if that's to be expected (?)

How do I choose a replacement shock? Motor trike isn't being any help. The shocks on the bike are not marked, and I just plain can not find any information through Google. What would I do? Take one off, and walk into Autozone with it?

If MT would just give me a straight answer about what shock to order. This is my first trike, and my last MT, I can tell you that.

 

[ThirdWheel]

Steve - I am guessing that your original shocks from your bike were used on the conversion and that the extra weight on them is the problem. I would look up the specs for them, check the spec against the shock that are on it now and how much play room around them you have and get a set of coil overs of the same length for a heavier bike. (measure your length in the lowest position). A set of automotive shocks would be very stiff because of the weight difference. I hope some of the builders here will jump in and offer their recommendations. I blew out the shocks on my old GW trike and put a set of Progressive coil overs on it and am very happy with the ride.

 

[Mr.Wizard]

It's not your shocks... hang on.... I'll get VT to explain it. He had a very similar issue.

 

[Big_Steve]

Steve - I am guessing that your original shocks from your bike were used on the conversion and that the extra weight on them is the problem. I would look up the specs for them, check the spec against the shock that are on it now and how much play room around them you have and get a set of coil overs of the same length for a heavier bike. (measure your length in the lowest position). A set of automotive shocks would be very stiff because of the weight difference. I hope some of the builders here will jump in and offer their recommendations. I blew out the shocks on my old GW trike and put a set of Progressive coil overs on it and am very happy with the ride.

I assumed since the rear end is from an automobile, the shocks are car shocks. But like I said, they compress easy, but don't bounce like a car with bad shocks. I looked at some photos of my model bike stock, and these are not the same shocks.

I started looking at prices for progressive coil over motorcycle shocks. My anal orifice is still puckered.

 

[ThirdWheel]

It's not your shocks... hang on.... I'll get VT to explain it. He had a very similar issue.

The Wiz comes through again! Thanks...Steve you will have your answer shortly.

 

[Mr.Wizard]

The Wiz comes through again! Thanks...Steve you will have your answer shortly.

I just remembered that VT had the same issues when it cam to his trike leaning in turns. We discussed shocks and that wasn't it.

I believe it was his stabilizer or swingarm bushings.. I sent him an email but you could do a search on 1550VT posts for what he did.

 

[Big_Steve]

I just remembered that VT had the same issues when it cam to his trike leaning in turns. We discussed shocks and that wasn't it.

I believe it was his stabilizer or swingarm bushings.. I sent him an email but you could do a search on 1550VT posts for what he did.

Thanks, I found it here: http://www.triketalk.com/forum/harley-trikes/1323-my-poor-leaning-lehman.html

I knew that thread was out there, but couldn't find it with a search.

Less than 9000 miles on the kit. 2 wheels looks better every day. What a PITA these things can be.

 

[Big_Steve]

I participated at the end of that thread. At the time, my trike was leaning IN to a turn. Even though I had the air bags pumped up to what the Manuf described. I've since taken it upon my self to pump the bags up pretty high. The trike now leans OUT of a turn, like you would expect. I just feel uncomfortable with the amount of the lean.

I should have bought a Spyder........

 

[oleman69]

Had the same problem on my '06 Motortrike 1800GL my dealer (Trikes Unlimited 256-332-8282) adjusted the suspension and stopped the bottoming out and we now run around 35 psi in air bags and 20 in tires rides not bad, hope it helps

 

[Mr.Wizard]

We need a "dually" trike rear end and hard pipe for shocks... whoooo hoooooo....

Talk about a hemorrhoid buster.

I'm surprised VT hasn't shown up... Going to call him and fuss.

 

[Big_Steve]

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<img src="images/misc/quote_icon.png" alt="Quote" /> Originally Posted by <strong>oleman69</strong>
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<div class="message">Had the same problem on my '06 Motortrike 1800GL my dealer (Trikes Unlimited 256-332-8282) adjusted the suspension and stopped the bottoming out and we now run around 35 psi in air bags and 20 in tires rides not bad, hope it helps<img src="images/smilies/grin.gif" border="0" alt="" title="big grin" class="inlineimg" /></div>

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</div>The dealer has gone through it. He's a busy motorcycle dealer, but I don't think he's really built all that many trikes, even though he is a MT dealer, and built this trike for a previous owner. I think he's taken it about as far as he can. The next MT dealer is pretty far away, and I don't know him. Hate to start over especially if he's at the same level as my current guy.<br />
<br />
Wish I had other trike owners nearby who could hop on it with me and tell me "They all do that" or "there's definitely something wrong here."<br />
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It's been an aggravating week at work. This is getting to me too much. Have to forget it for awhile.

 

[Papa Zook]

The suspension on your VTX1300 Motor Trike consists of two progressive coil over adjustable shocks and two Good Year air bags. You can adjust up the pre-load on the Progressive shocks for a firmer ride. The Motor Trike's suspension works simular to an independent in that it utilizes a three link ladder bar setup with Heim joints on the front of the ladders which allow each side to move up and down independently of one another, unlike the Champion setup which is a rigid cross-braced (or Zero-Flex as they call it) swingarm which moves up and down as a single unit. Each has its own design advantages and disadvantages. The Zero-Flex is more stable and runs flatter in hard turns, where the Motor Trike generally has a cushier rider. It can be tuned to corner well with the proper setup, but may never suit you if you want to spend the day powering through tight twisties. I wish you were closer to me as I would go though it completely for you.

 

[Big_Steve]

Thanks Zook, that's sort of what I was suspecting. <br />
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Mamma is starting to get more interested in riding then I had imagined. If that continues to be the case, maybe a touring rig with suspension more to my liking is in my future. <br />
<br />
I know they're not well thought of around here, but the Can am RT looks sweet. May see about a test drive in the next couple of weeks.<br />
<br />
In the meantime, I'll keep trying to find the "sweet spot" (if there is one) on my set ups.

 

[1550vt]

Hey.....Wizard "went my bail" so I am out of jail and at home now. Still dressed in orange coveralls, but free at the moment.<br />
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Steve, I realize we have two different animals. Mine is an Ultra Harley and yours is a Honda. I don't know how much help I can be, but I will tell you what all I did to eventually solve my problem and every little bit helped. The final thing I did really cured it (ain't that the way it always goes). Bear in mind that I am only out on good behavior for 24-hours and don't have a lot of time, some of this may have already been asked, or mentioned.<br />
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First of all, are you raked and by how much? If it's not raked, any suspension problem on a trike will be greatly amplified. Raking took away 70% of my leaning problem and just like you say, I could live with it 1-up, but with the wife on the thing...it was absolutely frightening and she only weighs around 110 wet.<br />
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NOTHING that I did to the shocks made any difference at all...period. Other things that I did would slightly change things or maybe even improve them, but different shocks never did.<br />
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Make sure the trike is in perfect alignment. Any "yaw" in the arse end will cause problems. Your left and right wheels should be the same distance from your front wheel...or as close as you can get it.

I found solid points (shock mounts) on the rear and used the front wheel axle as the center point, but make sure the front wheel is absolutely perpendicular to the floor. (Stick a bubble level on the caliper). I marked the reference points using a string-plumb and a chalk mark on the floor....then measured and adjusted accordingly.<br />
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My main problem was my swing-arm to transmission connection and I realize the Harley is surely different than the Honda. I cured my problem by changing the bushings in the swing-arm to a stiffer (solid Delrin) bushing and all my sway is gone. Now we all know what I mean, we all have some slight degree of sway, but understand mine went from a LOT to hardly noticeable.<br />
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Tire pressure does have a lot to do with it. If you run them down around 20...you are going to have more sway that you would at 25.<br />
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I know too many people that are riding Honda conversions that don't have this problem and stiffer shocks may help you out....it did nothing for me. Most of my slop was in the swing-arm to transmission to motor connection and I haven't a clue as to how that connection is made on your Honda, but that would be a place in which I would investigate.<br />
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Now...the be perfectly honest with you, I think you have to set one up fairly stiff to get the cornering you want. I sacrifice some interstate riding comfort so I am able to take the curves with all the 2-wheelers I ride with, but I think mine will now truly slide in a turn before it would tip-over, or at least throw me off first.<br />
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The Spyder thing.....guys...please do some reading on the Spyder. I got thirsty for one until I learned enough to know that they have problems just like our trikes do and they do not have anything close to the Honda or Harley dealerships across the country to help you out either. I have a friend that just purchased one and I am waiting for some first-hand information and as far as I am concerned...the jury is still out for me on the Spyder.

I was taught early in my riding career that you never knock another mans ride...and I am not knocking the Can-Am. It's just that based on what I have read off their on forums, you may not gain a thing in handling with the purchase of a reverse trike. Maybe just another set of similar or different problems.<br />
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Big Steve.....get back to me and cry on my shoulder....I cried everywhere I could until I eventually solved my problem.

 

[1550vt]

Post #2...Steve...that thing I mentioned about "setting mine up stiff to get the handling I wanted" correlates to what Zook said and what you already understand. To take the curves....you will have to stiffen things up and that is the point I was also making.

I would also say again....go read the Spyder forums before you go out and purchase one as a cure to your problem.

 

[Big_Steve]

Thanks VT. It's been a frustrating week, this is causing me way more grief then it really calls for.<br />
<br />
I'm not raked. I don't need it to steer any easier then it already does (real easy) so I'm not spending the money on that. I'll keep messin with it. I'm not looking for performance handling with mamma on board, just less leaning. <br />
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Yeah, about the Spyder. At that price, I don't make impulse purchases.

 

[Papa Zook]

Steve-
Bump the pre-load up two or three notches on the Progressive shocks, go to 35LBs of air in the air bags and bump the tire pressure up to around 24LBS. Make sure you have max pressure in the front tire. You should see some improvement in handling, but even with all that, a guy your size and riding two up, you may not see the kind of handling I think you are looking for.

 

[1550vt]

Big Steve....I don't want to pi!! you off just because your name must indicate your stature....and you can find out where I live (LOL).

Honestly now (and I am really serious), I never thought a trike needed to be raked either.....until I did it. I can promise you that the TG trees I put on mine (thanks to Ultraboy's article) made a humongous (biggest word I could come up with) difference in the way this thing handled a curve. A handlebar is nothing but a lever. If you rake it, you essentially make the lever longer and reduce the force necessary to turn the trike. The forces are not "working" against the front wheel as hard if you rake it and it will glide through a curve much better. When I get on a non-raked trike now....it reminds me of those Honda 3-wheeler ATV''s we use to ride. It really makes that much difference. I am not telling you that it solved all my issues but it solved a large percentage and made it usable.

I know us Ultra guys got a real break when UB told all of us about the TG trees working on the dresser frame and it will cost you a lot more to rake yours. Find somebody that has a bike close to yours that has been raked and judge for yourself if the handling justifies the expense.

If you plan to keep this trike.....RAKE IT!

 

[Papa Zook]

I wasn't either, but any trike will handle differently with a 110 pounder like Nana or Marge on it than it will with someone like me or Steve plus a passenger on it and this has to be taken into consideration. Was that a good answer???

 

[Big_Steve]

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<img src="images/misc/quote_icon.png" alt="Quote" /> Originally Posted by <strong>Bazooka</strong>
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<div class="message">Steve-<br />
Bump the pre-load up two or three notches on the Progressive shocks, go to 35LBs of air in the air bags and bump the tire pressure up to around 24LBS. Make sure you have max pressure in the front tire. You should see some improvement in handling, but even with all that, a guy your size and riding two up, you may not see the kind of handling I think you are looking for.</div>

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</div>Been through that. The other day I backed the shocks back down, and went nuts with the air. Actually it was a bit of an improvement. So I bumped the shocks back up tonight, but mama wasn't around for a ride. It was really firm on the bumps tonight. Big Dog and I went out for a ride down the beach. I rediscovered every bump in the road.<br />
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I had an aggravating week so far, and this bike business just came up at the wrong time. Nice ride tonight, I feel better.