6-Speed vs. 5-Speed Fuel Mileage

[1550vt]

Couldn't really find a thread where this belonged, so I thought I'd start a new one. There has been so much discussion across so many threads concerning MPG and 6-speed performance, I just thought this deserved it's own discussion.<br />
<br />
It pertains mostly to the Harley conversions and the TG, but it may be of some interest to those that have the option to change transmissions regardless of brand.<br />
<br />
In short, I had a junky 6-speed in a Harley Lehman conversion powered by a TC-88 Stage II. I had changed the tires and other things to get it geared just like I wanted and could cruise in 6th. doing 75-80mph at around 2750 RPM. Most of the time, I felt as if it was lugging the motor and usually stayed in 5th. The junky 6-speed finally gave-up-the-ghost, which afforded me the opportunity to put my stock 5-speed back in. I went from a stock 32-tooth output pulley to a 34 to reduce the cruising RPM's a bit. I now cruise at between 3200-3300 doing 75-80mph and 3000 at 70mph. This gearing is a little tall in first, but it will move on out.<br />
<br />
I have checked the mileage I had been getting against the mileage I am now getting trying to duplicate similar rides. With the 6-speed, I generally averaged 30-31 on the interstates at 75-80mph and 33-34 on the two-lane back roads at 55-65mph.

The overall average was close to 32-33.<br />
<br />
With this 5-speed and the 34-tooth pulley, I am averaging around 34-35 overall. To those that have complained about the lugging underpowered 6th. gear...I can tell you that running in 5th. at a higher RPM and less motor lugging has resulted in a slightly improved MPG for me. The trike sure feels a whole lot happier too.

 

[Baz]

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<img src="images/misc/quote_icon.png" alt="Quote" /> Originally Posted by <strong>1550vt</strong>
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<div class="message">Couldn't really find a thread where this belonged, so I thought I'd start a new one. There has been so much discussion across so many threads concerning MPG and 6-speed performance, I just thought this deserved it's own discussion.<br />
<br />
It pertains mostly to the Harley conversions and the TG, but it may be of some interest to those that have the option to change transmissions regardless of brand.<br />
<br />
In short, I had a junky 6-speed in a Harley Lehman conversion powered by a TC-88 Stage II. I had changed the tires and other things to get it geared just like I wanted and could cruise in 6th. doing 75-80mph at around 2750 RPM. Most of the time, I felt as if it was lugging the motor and usually stayed in 5th. The junky 6-speed finally gave-up-the-ghost, which afforded me the opportunity to put my stock 5-speed back in. I went from a stock 32-tooth output pulley to a 34 to reduce the cruising RPM's a bit. I now cruise at between 3200-3300 doing 75-80mph and 3000 at 70mph. This gearing is a little tall in first, but it will move on out.<br />
<br />
I have checked the mileage I had been getting against the mileage I am now getting trying to duplicate similar rides. With the 6-speed, I generally averaged 30-31 on the interstates at 75-80mph and 33-34 on the two-lane back roads at 55-65mph.

The overall average was close to 32-33.<br />
<br />
With this 5-speed and the 34-tooth pulley, I am averaging around 34-35 overall. To those that have complained about the lugging underpowered 6th. gear...I can tell you that running in 5th. at a higher RPM and less motor lugging has resulted in a slightly improved MPG for me. The trike sure feels a whole lot happier too.</div>

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</div>Exactly! :yes:Baz

 

[jim peacock]

With the extra power a gold wing has I feel a new gold wing could easly have a sixth gear and would get better fuel miliage.
With my 96 1500 with a 06 lehman kit two up I can easly run along in fifth gear at 30 mph and just pull right away.
:yes::yes::yes:

 

[skuuter]

With a Gold Wing 1800, I rarely use 5th Gear (High) unless I am around the 70 mph mark. They have so much Torque and HP that You can cruise in 3rd and 4th most all day. This holds true for Trike and 2-wheelers I've owned. My Trike is geared higher than a 2-wheel version.....

 

[1550vt]

Harley did change the gearing in the 2011 TG and I believe from what I hear, the changes have made a big difference. Our problem with the Harley is they just stuck a 6-speed in what they had on the earlier TG's and it took them two model years to listen to the owners and finally try to do something about it. Also, us owners of the earlier kitted Harleys had the same problem with the installation of a 6-speed gear-set in the stock 2-wheeler gearing. Stock 5-speed gearing was just a little too short for a kitted Harley and many of us opted for a 6-speed gear-set.<br />
<br />
People complained about 6th. gear on the very first model year 2-wheelers, so this is nothing specific to the trike. The trike is just much heavier and made matters worse. Had they made 6th. something like a .90's OD as opposed to an .80's OD in the first place, we may not even be having this discussion. <br />
<br />
Part of the problem is the rider also. 6th.

was never meant to be anything other than an over-drive gear, just like in an automobile. An automatic transmission shifts in-and-out of OD when it needs to. Many riders think that it is a must to get into 6th. as soon as possible and stay there. They can't get in the mindset that running in 5th. is perfectly normal.<br />
<br />
I had mine geared to my liking and could cruise in 6th. You see more and more post concerning problems with these 6-speeds and my point was to demonstrate that one could easily go back to a 5-speed and with a little pulley changing, achieve a good cruising range at an rpm the Twin Cam likes and get better fuel mileage as well. This TC was just never designed to putt down the highway under load in high gear at 2500 RPM. You have a choice to continue to do that and listen to the detonation and valve-rattle on the hot days.....or make a change.<br />
<br />
Not to start a model fight here, but I will add that some of the metric bikes have had and are having their own issues with transmissions also. Transmission issues are not limited to just Harley Davidson models.

 

[msocko3]

People complained about 6th. gear on the very first model year 2-wheelers, so this is nothing specific to the trike. The trike is just much heavier and made matters worse. Had they made 6th. something like a .90's OD as opposed to an .80's OD in the first place, we may not even be having this discussion.

I was one of them complaining, I'm still complaining about it. They should provide a path forward for those who are stuck with the 09 - 10 with the crummy gearing. I know from the get go 6th gear would be pretty much useless because of the extra work the engine had to do in order to pull that gear. The only time 6th is of any use is 75 + mph.

 

[1550vt]

#3...just for curiosity sake, do you know if 2, 3, 4, and 5 are stock HD gearing in the Harley 6-speeds? I mean like the stock 5-speeds? The 6-speeds usually had a shorter 1st. gear and a taller 6th., but all the others were stock. I could run my old junky JIMS/Baker in 5th. and it was the very same gearing as the stock 5-speed. I made some changes and added a little smaller tire and actually had mine where it would OD in 6th. at around 2800.....but then the POS blew-up and there was no way I was going to purchase another 6-speed. That is why I had to go with the 34-tooth output pulley to bring it back to the stock overall ratio when I tossed the 6-speed. When I put my 5-speed back in, I was running 3200 at 70 with my wheels, so I went to the 34-tooth to pull all that back together. I now run right at 2900-or-so in 70, which is 200 less than the stock 2-wheeler did with the 5 speed.<br />
<br />
I know you guys have tried all sorts of things to help and I think most of you have went to the 30-tooth output pulley.

I guess you are stuck with a 6-speed, because that is what the transmission case was designed for.

 

[trikes4ever]

If I had a 6th gear it would probably rust away from non use. I ride almost exclusively on rural roads, and very rarely over 65 - if that. No interest in a 6 speed for me.

 

[1550vt]

Me neither anymore! I will never have another problem with 6th. gear, because I don't have one.

 

[msocko3]

#3...just for curiosity sake, do you know if 2, 3, 4, and 5 are stock HD gearing in the Harley 6-speeds? I mean like the stock 5-speeds? The 6-speeds usually had a shorter 1st. gear and a taller 6th., but all the others were stock. I could run my old junky JIMS/Baker in 5th. and it was the very same gearing as the stock 5-speed. I made some changes and added a little smaller tire and actually had mine where it

Not sure if this will answer your question, but here are the ratios on my 06 Ultra which has the factory 5 speed and sprockets. Looking at the ratios for the 2011 Triglide it looks much better for getting the big slug moving. The gear ratios for each gear on it, the 09 - 10 Triglide and 11 are as follows.

06 Touring
1st 10.110
2nd 6.958
3rd 4.953
4th 3.862
5th 3.150

09 - 10 Triglides
1st 9.878
2nd 6.847
3rd 5.086
4th 4.118
5th 3.508
6th 2.96

11 Triglide
1st 10.537
2nd 7.303
3rd 5.425
4th 4.393
5th 3.742
6th 3.157

 

[JaysGone]

It doesn't matter what bike or trike Ive ridden.
If it had a 5 speed Id always be looking for a 6th speed to kick it into as Ive accelerated to my intended highway speed.
I for one don't look at or for the overdrive thingy on the dash.
Im too busy twisting the wick to even know what gear Im in.

 

[rmrc51]

If I had a 6th gear it would probably rust away from non use. I ride almost exclusively on rural roads, and very rarely over 65 - if that. No interest in a 6 speed for me.

Ditto. 65 mph is my top speed. I actually prefer 55-60. I'll just stay in the slow lane if traffic is going faster. No need for a 6th gear for me either.

 

[Shimpy]

I've found thru the years that running at a lower rpm doesn't automatically mean better mileage. When the engine lugs even though you can't notice it, it's wasting gas. For those bikes that can't use 6th gear until over 70, it than has to fight wind resistance which is like riding uphill, especially on a trike which isn't very efficient aerodynamically.

 

[msocko3]

I've found thru the years that running at a lower rpm doesn't automatically mean better mileage. When the engine lugs even though you can't notice it, it's wasting gas. For those bikes that can't use 6th gear until over 70, it than has to fight wind resistance which is like riding uphill, especially on a trike which isn't very efficient aerodynamically.

:Agree: When I used to have a Harley trike I could get 2 - 3 mpg better mileage running 60 mph in 5th than 60 mph in 6th. I find out where the engine is happy and select my gear accordingly.

 

[johnnie1]

Don't know if this will apply or not as I ride a Goldwing Trike, at 55 and 60 I get 36/37 MPG. I do know that before I went to a trike and rode a reg Goldwing I would get with in a 10th of a gallon of my sons Harley Street Glide witch is a 6 speed. He would beat me a little on interstate's and I would beat him a little in the mountains. So I really do not see any reason for 6 speed. My wife had a Can Am Spyder and best it got was 28 to 30... Ride safe and Ride a lot.

 

[FRR]

I get 46-48 with my 2007 Ultra. I use 6th gear above 55. I wish my Wing had a 6th gear. That engine could use some better mileage. I only got 40 when it was 2 wheels and now with the trike kit I get 35-37 on average.

 

[msocko3]

I get 46-48 with my 2007 Ultra. I use 6th gear above 55. I wish my Wing had a 6th gear. That engine could use some better mileage. I only got 40 when it was 2 wheels and now with the trike kit I get 35-37 on average.

I'd like better mileage but I can't complain because my 2012 Hannian is getting about the same mileage as my former Triglide which is 30 - 38 mpg depending on the speed. Once you trike them the fuel mileage is going to take a hit, the best I got on my Wing when it was 2 wheels was 42 mpg.