Gas tank removal on a CSC Viper trike

[pwhoever]

I am going to need to pull the fuel tank on my GL1800 CSC Viper to change out a water pump. Part of the instructions for taking out the gas tank is to remove the battery box. I just recently changed out my battery and it was a bit of a tight fit. I have previously removed the tank when it was still a 2 wheeler but not since having it triked. So I have a couple of questions...

Do I really need to remove the battery box to get the fuel tank out?

Is there an easier way to get the gas tank out?

If I do have to remove the battery box, can I do it without having to do anything to the trike body?

I did try searching for answers but couldn't find anything. I know I can't be the first one to run into this situation. I haven't got quite that far into it yet, probably tomorrow. Any advice would be greatly appreciated...

[GoldWingrGreg]

I am going to need to pull the fuel tank on my GL1800 CSC Viper to change out a water pump. Part of the instructions for taking out the gas tank is to remove the battery box. I just recently changed out my battery and it was a bit of a tight fit. I have previously removed the tank when it was still a 2 wheeler but not since having it triked. So I have a couple of questions...

Do I really need to remove the battery box to get the fuel tank out?

Is there an easier way to get the gas tank out?

If I do have to remove the battery box, can I do it without having to do anything to the trike body?

I did try searching for answers but couldn't find anything. I know I can't be the first one to run into this situation. I haven't got quite that far into it yet, probably tomorrow. Any advice would be greatly appreciated...

I've removed a couple of them, and yes ... they are challenging to remove. The reason is how tight they are squeezed into an area barely big enough for them. To be honest, I can't says I remember removing the battery box. But I CSC says to remove it, then remove it. It will probably be the easiest part of the whole job.

First off, the tanks I've removed are red in color. They have a metal shield on their under side that needs removed first. Actually, as I right this, the battery box was removed to help with that, which leads to disconnecting of the bradded hose between the 2 tanks.

To remove the red tank, be sure to loosen the main tank for a little more room. Nothing needs done with the trike body. To empty the fuel, follow the method in the Service Manual ... Honda would not have wrote it if they didn't feel it was safe ... I do it all the time. Then, put a pan under the braided hose on the underside of the two tanks, and pull one end off. If I recall, I pulled the side that goes to the red tank.

What makes you think your water pump needs replaced ???

[pwhoever]

Thanks GoldwingrGreg for responding. I was actually talking about the main fuel tank. I don't have the Aux tank so one less thing to worry about. I didn't get the instructions from CSC. I had found numerous threads on different forums that detailed info on what to remove to get to the water pump. Pretty much everyone, once they got to the part of removing the main fuel tank all mentioned that the battery box needed to be removed. I remember that when I took out the fuel tank the last time, it took a bit of wrangling to get it out. I don't think I have the same amount of wiggle room with the trike body. I had also posed this question on another forum and got back several responses from those that were successful in removing the tank without taking out the battery box so now I know it can be done.

As far as why the water pump, it is because of an overheating problem. And I'm pretty sure that I am hearing a bit of rattling coming from that area. I won't know until I get in there. It had started last year while riding up the Chief Joseph Hwy in Wyoming. There is a pretty good grade, high temps, and there was construction going on which meant slow moving traffic. I was there with a buddy on his 2010 wing and another buddy that was driving a 2010 CSC Cobra 1800 trike. Neither of them suffered any issue and their temp gauges only rose slightly. Mine went all the way up. Mine is a 2007 which already has the larger radiators so it shouldn't have the infamous parade overheating problem. It happened a few more times on the trip but always under extreme conditions, grades, high temps, etc. This was also before I did the trike conversion. I also suffered a pressurized fuel tank problem on this trip that I solved after getting back home.

Turns out that I had pinched the overflow hose that goes down to charcoal canister when I had reinstalled the gas tank after doing a spring change on the rear shock. After fixing that, I didn't have any overheating problems so I just thought the overheating and pressurized tank might have been related. Around here though, there really aren't any long steep grades and we didn't have any where near the high temps I experienced on this trip for the rest of the riding season. Over the winter I did remove a lot of tupperware including the fairing and tightened all the clamps I could find. I had already done the rear ones when I had the tank out because I kept getting a faint antifreeze smell quite often.

This year I couldn't get much riding in prior to a 2 week trip out east. I had changed the oil prior to the trip and did some other PM stuff so I figured it was ready. Most of the beginning was on open back roads on some hill but mostly level roads. It wasn't until about the 4th day when got around Arlington National Cemetery that we got caught in stop and go traffic and temps in the upper 90's. I started getting the overheating again. At one point, the needle pegged passed the upper white mark. Again I was with the same 2 buddies and theirs only went slightly over the halfway mark and one mentioned his did go to the 3/4 mark but that was it. It happened again numerous times on this trip including overflowing at least one time that I know of. That was when I was trying to ride up Mt Washington in New Hampshire that is a very steep 8 mile road to the top. I pulled over at first turn off and that time I actually saw the bike loosing coolant.

The other times, I was moving and had no where to pull over to let the trike cool down. And everytime I had this issue, the other 2 didnt. Normal driving and I didn't have overheating issues but the times that it did, it would happen real quick. I could really feel the heat as well so the temp gauge was accurately reflecting what was happening. I did try a few fixes out on the road. I hosed out the radiators pretty good from outside to make sure the fins were clear, I also checked the antifreeze in the overflow, it was a little low along with topping off the radiator. I also did an unscientific check of the overflow tube by pinching up the end of a straw and blowing into the overflow tube from the radiator neck and could hear bubbles in the overflow bottle so I know it isn't blocked.

After getting home I did some other stuff including changing the radiator cap with a new factory one. I so drained all the coolant including the overflow bottle and replaced with silicate free Zerex 50/50. I took it around the neighborhood on a hot day and in stop and go traffic, still overheating. I broke down and bought a uview 550000 tool and made sure to completely drain the system and ran some Prestone cleaner and degreaser flush and distilled water through to see if I could get any gunk out and didn't see anything.

I thought maybe there might be some restrictions and that would have helped but I saw nothing unusual in the drain pan. The system seems to be holding pressure pretty good as the needle on the uview holds pretty steady. About the only thing left that I can think of is the thermostat or the water pump. The only way to check those is to pull the pump. Since it does appear to be making some noise and I will be pulling it anyway, I figured the logical thing to do is replace it with a new one. I already have a new one ready to go in.

So I have tried just about everything and the water pump was the next logical thing. Sorry for the long explanation but I wanted to include as much info as I could...

[GoldWingrGreg]

A sucking test is the opposite of "pressure test." Your system needs a pressure test, not a suction test. What needs to be known is still not known ... does your system hold pressure ???

I believe many parts stores lend out cooling system pressure tester kits that have the correct adapters. Do a low and high pressure test. A low is 6-8 lbs and a high is 16-20 lbs. Do each test for at least 4 hours. Often if our system has a leak, the leak first pools before spilling into another void to pool, before the first drop will finally spill over and hit the pavement. According to Honda's maintenance schedule, a pressure test needs done every 8,000 miles. Assume nothing and don't forget to test your new cap.

It's been my experience, that overheating is usually due to poor maintenance. Hopefully your Wing got its coolant changed in 2009, 2011, 2013, 2015 and in 2017 (or every 24k whichever comes first). Basically, it should at least be on it's 5th coolant change. I've pulled engines down for tranny repair and the outer walls of their cylinders walls (also known as coolant jackets) are coated with a white substance that does not come off from hot tanking, carb cleaner, or BrakeClean. It probably something that happens from electrolyses (from old coolant). Since such coating probably reduces heat from it transferring from the cylinder walls and into the coolant, I'm sure their cooling system will forever be less effective. At the least, it slows the movement of coolant in a critical area.

As for pulling the OEM fuel tank. No, the battery box does not need to be removed. Usually I will removed the battery bracket bolt, and screw back in the bolt 2 threads to keep the collar in the box from dropping out of its bolt hole. It's easiest if the tank is less then 1/4 full.

Just an FYI ... I stock 3 thermostats and in the 10 years of repairing probably more GL1800 then any other shop, have never sold even one of them; I doubt you have a bad thermostat. If your water pump is bad, it is because it is leaking or it sounds like this

http://www.triketalk.com/forum/threa...ter-pump-noise

If you think your water pump has a different noise, confirm it by listening to it with a rubber hose touching the pump and the other to your ear.

Also, a cooling system inspection includes inspecting the recovery system. Be sure to remove the reservoir tank and inspect the nipple end of the hose that goes into the tank. Any cracks around it, or any cracks on the other 2 recovery hose ends, and they need replaced. The inspection should include looking at the obvious. Are there any accessories that block air flow passing through the radiator grill area. An efficient system includes no chrome in that area at all. OEM black shield on the front side of the fans, and the outsides of the radiators are acceptable. Everything else should not be there.

Be sure to check your fans. Once they come on, place both hands under the headlamps. You should feel even blow and even heat.

[pwhoever]

Great information, thanks. As far as coolant changes, I bought it used in Sep 2014 and have no idea about coolant changes prior. I know that I haven't done a coolant change since owning and current mileage is only about 61,000. I had brought it in early 2015 to a dealer to diagnose the antifreeze smell. I just assumed they would pressure test it. My mistake because when I went to pick it up, all they did was to start it up and leave it running for awhile, then drive it down the road a bit, and then check for leaks under it afterwards. I asked them if they pressure tested and they straight out said no, there was no reason to do that. That is the last time I stepped foot in that dealership. I had taken various long trips since then but the overheating didnt start until the Aug trip last year. I have no accessories on the front so nothing to obstruct the airflow. Both fans seem to be working properly.

So it looks like I need to pressure test, inspect some more hoses, and further investigate the noise I think I hear. Hopefully there is no buildup inside like you describe but it sounds like that might be a possibility. Thank you for your advice.

One more thing I have noticed and not sure if it is a symptom or normal, the left outside thick flat "boomerang shaped" part of the frame around the alternator gets extremely hot during the overheating episodes to the point where it will almost burn to the touch. I asked one of my buddy's if that ever happens to him and he said no.

[GoldWingrGreg]

Unfortunately, many dealers do not have a common cooling system pressure tester for their shop. If it were an automotive repair shop, most well tooled mechanics have their own, and for the ones who don't usually the shop has one for all to use.

Here's the irony about not having a cooling system pressure tester when trying to properly maintain a GL1800. A poorly maintained cooling system on a car is the #1 reason they breakdown on todays highways. And a GL1800 has an "automotive" type cooling system ... a water pump, radiators, electric fans, and a recovery system.

Basically, you did the right thing by leaving that shop. Without one, they cannot be counted on to address your issue.

As for excessive heat around the left frame rail. The left head sits farther back on that side. Do you have a belly pan or running boards ???

[pwhoever]

Belly pan and running boards, both. But it does this even at idle and not moving like during the testing in the garage...

As far as the pressure tester, I went to Oreilly's first and rented theirs. It was a deposit of $152.99 plus tax. It had to be back within 48 hours or I had bought it. It was not going to work as it only came with 3 adapters that were all too big. I returned that and stopped by Autozone. This time I brought the radiator cap with me. They had a Powerbuilt tester part # 940427 that came with 22pcs. It was part #11 that fit the radiator cap perfectly. Part #6 fit the radiator neck. It is a little more and was $249.00 plus tax and if I don't return it, I bought it. Big difference though is Autozone gives me 90 days to return it.

I am doing the testing now...

[GoldWingrGreg]

Infrared temp sensor guns are pretty cheap. If you're thinking that the frame is getting hot on the left side because the cooling system is hotter on that side, test it with a infrared temp sensor.

To test, remove both engine covers, and locate both coolant hoses that route along the lower frame stub on each side and disappear under each head. Point the gun and measure the temperature of each hose relative to the distance from its head on each side. The temperature should be similar.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Milwaukee...7-20/206260202

[pwhoever]

I tested both caps by pumping them up to around 21lbs and they dropped a bit but held pressure. The old one held pressure at 20. I left it pressured for about a half hour. Did The same with The new one. The new one dropped down to about 19 and still was holding that pressure. I did look in my Honda Service manual and that says to test them for 6 seconds. But either way, it looks like they both passed. Also the service manual says only 6 seconds for the cooling system as well but I somewhat followed your directions. I did a low pressure of around 8lbs for about an hour and it held. I released the pressure and then went up to 21lbs. It dropped slowly down to about 19 and by the end of an hour it was at 18. I listened for any hissing and could hear no leaks. This seemed good enough and passed the Honda recommendations. There was also nothing leaking on the ground.

So for peace of mind and since I already had the new water pump, I dove into it. Gas tank came out no problem. It actually seemed easier this time than the last. I was able to get the alternator out and the water pump. I saw no evidence of any leaking and all the hoses looked good. I did find that cooling fins on the back of the alternator were pretty clogged with debris.

I blew it out with the hose from my compressor and also blew out as much inside as I could. Quite a bunch of dust flew out of it. Now I'm thinking that the heat on left side may have been coming from the alternator. I dropped the reserve tank and the inside wasn't bad at all. I rinsed out the inside anyway and cleaned the outside pretty good. The hose from reserve tank to radiator neck looked in good shape along with no cracks. The reserve tank hose connections were in good shape and no cracks. When I got the water pump and the closest hoses off, I didn't notice anything unusual, no buildup and no gunk. I pulled the water pump apart and pulled the thermostat.

Putting it in a steel bowl with water on the stove and using a temp gauge, it opened just like it should at 190 degrees. Just like you said it would be. So I'm stumped. There has to be a reason that when with the other two bikes loaded almost exactly alike, mine suffers overheating under certain conditions and the others are fine. I'm going to install the new water pump, fresh coolant, and the new radiator cap. Luckily inside the water pump/engine connection, the connector stopped in the 12 oclock position. That should be a great help getting the water pump back in.

I just can't figure it out. Hopefully doing all this work, I will have some success. I have a trip down to Eureka Springs Arkansas at the end of the month. I know the bike will get a work out and I should have some idea if all this work was worth it. If not, I will tackle the radiators and engine connections over the winter. I'm just not in the mood to pull the fairing right now...

Thank you Greg for the help.

[GoldWingrGreg]

I know about Honda 6 sec. rule. But there is a big problem with what they wrote. If you work on enough of these, you will eventually come across some that holds good pressure for 6 seconds but drip, drip, drip, on to the pavement ... according to Honda that's acceptable ... but is it ???

Think about that question this way. If you just bought a brand new GL1800, and while it's warming up so that you can leave the show room, you see drip, drip, drip, on the showroom floor. The sales person asks the service manager who says, according to Honda, that's acceptable, would you consider that acceptable ???

Anyway, I've seen a couple that have done that, and I now considered the 6 second rule regarding the cooling system a miss print. However, sometimes I consider it when I test a cap. On GL1800s, when doing cooling system pressure tests, I've learned to treat them like a car.

It does sound like you have 2 good caps, however, since you are looking to correct a problem, your cooling system pressure test needs done longer per the reasons stated in post #4. Unfortunately, replacing the water pump has probably accomplished nothing. With new coolant, you should notice your gauge reading about a needle thickness lower for the next couple of weeks.

Possibly a temp gauge problem ???

[pwhoever]

It looks like I may have solved the overheating problem but won't know for sure until my Eureka Springs trip over Labor Day weekend. I finally got a chance to take it out and went on a 230 mile trip with temps up to the upper 80's, all back roads. At no time did my feet feel like they were baking. The did get warm at times but nothing like it had been. The engine temp gauge stayed rock solid just a hair under 1/2 except for a couple times where it rose a hair over 1/2 for a couple seconds when the fans cooled it right away. Also the "boomerang" shape frame behind engine never got too hot to touch. I'm feeling pretty good about it know but wont start celebrating until the trip...

[dadztoy]

Mike, I have been reading your thread regarding your overheating problems... When I had this issue with my 1500, after months of chasing it, I finally found that the radiators were nearly clogged close by what appeared to be microscopic bugs... A good thorough cleaning of them took care of the problem...

Just wondering if you have shone a flashlight thru them to see their condition???

Les

[pwhoever]

Actually I did try that. On the last road trip I was on and experiencing the overheating, I stopped at a car was that had the high power spray hose. I know that is usually considered a no-no but I was a bit desperate. I sprayed directly into the radiators on both sides thoroughly to make sure that the passages were clear. I was very careful not to put that nozzle too close to the fins. I checked the fins afterwards and they didnt appear to be affected by the high pressure but at least I knew that the radiators should now be clear. Unfortunately, that still didnt solve the overheating.

[pwhoever]

And just to post a follow up, since all the work I did on the cooling system, it seems like it is now doing fine. The Eureka Springs trip was a success and no signs of overheating. I have also put some more miles on it since Eureka and the problem seems to be gone. Not sure exactly what did the trick, whether it was flushing the system with cleaner or the water pump replacement but I'm happy. I also got the chance to tighten a few more clamps. No overheating and no anti freeze smell...