MT Vibration Concern

[Ruothere]

Triked my 1800 last winter found and I had a fair amount of vibration on my first few rides. Took the trike back to the installer, he took the rear tires to a local tire store and had them spin balanced which found one of them significantly out of balance. They glued a lot of weights on the inside of the rim. While it's better I'm still feeling vibration at highway speeds. Vibration is felt in my hands and feet and the view of vehicles behind me is fuzzy. I'm running 22psi in both rear tires. Today I increased the rear suspension setting up to 45 which helped a slightly.

Question: coming off two wheels where the 1800 was smooth at all highway speeds and now on three wheels, is the vib. normal given the size of the rear tires?

Running through a few possible avenues to pursue if the vib. is not normal:

* take the tires to a local tire store and have the balance check as well as tire run out. The significant amount of weight that was applied to the inner rim concerns me.

* try to determine if I have a bad rim

* replace the tires with a good brand name.

* look into a drive shaft issue

I know it's hard to quantify the level of vibration in an email but any thoughts or suggests would be appreciated.

[Gold Rush]

Triked my 1800 last winter found and I had a fair amount of vibration on my first few rides. Took the trike back to the installer, he took the rear tires to a local tire store and had them spin balanced which found one of them significantly out of balance. They glued a lot of weights on the inside of the rim. While it's better I'm still feeling vibration at highway speeds. Vibration is felt in my hands and feet and the view of vehicles behind me is fuzzy. I'm running 22psi in both rear tires. Today I increased the rear suspension setting up to 45 which helped a slightly.

Question: coming off two wheels where the 1800 was smooth at all highway speeds and now on three wheels, is the vib. normal given the size of the rear tires?

Running through a few possible avenues to pursue if the vib. is not normal:

* take the tires to a local tire store and have the balance check as well as tire run out. The significant amount of weight that was applied to the inner rim concerns me.

* try to determine if I have a bad rim

* replace the tires with a good brand name.

* look into a drive shaft issue

I know it's hard to quantify the level of vibration in an email but any thoughts or suggests would be appreciated.

We need just a bit more information Kevin.

Which MT conversion did you have installed? Which rear wheels do you have? Which front tire are you running and when was the balance checked? Did you have a rake kit installed? If not have you had tapered steering head bearings installed? All of these questions are important information.

I owned a MT Adventure for several years. Fought vibrations issues for over a year before solving most of it. Hang in there. It is curable!!

[FuzzyWuzHe]

If it's a balance issue, you might look into ride on for balance and tire sealing ... kill two birds with one stone.

[GoldWingrGreg]

Triked my 1800 last winter found and I had a fair amount of vibration on my first few rides. Took the trike back to the installer, he took the rear tires to a local tire store and had them spin balanced which found one of them significantly out of balance. They glued a lot of weights on the inside of the rim. While it's better I'm still feeling vibration at highway speeds. Vibration is felt in my hands and feet and the view of vehicles behind me is fuzzy. I'm running 22psi in both rear tires. Today I increased the rear suspension setting up to 45 which helped a slightly.

Question: coming off two wheels where the 1800 was smooth at all highway speeds and now on three wheels, is the vib. normal given the size of the rear tires?

Running through a few possible avenues to pursue if the vib. is not normal:

* take the tires to a local tire store and have the balance check as well as tire run out. The significant amount of weight that was applied to the inner rim concerns me.

* try to determine if I have a bad rim

* replace the tires with a good brand name.

* look into a drive shaft issue

I know it's hard to quantify the level of vibration in an email but any thoughts or suggests would be appreciated.

On a smooth surface, your trike should ride smooth at all speeds. However, keep in mind that between a m/c, a car, and a trike, when it comes to road conditions, a trike will always provide the poorest ride. A bike goes down 1 track, a car 2 tracks, and a trike runs down 3 tracks. Therefore, finding 3 smooth tracks for a trike to ride in becomes more challenging.

Usually, bent rim issues, or a tire not running true, are spotted when a tire/wheel assembly is run on a spin balancer. As for tires, I always recommend a top brand ... Goodyear, Bridgestone, Firestone, Michelin, BFG.

Because so much weight is stuck to the inside indicates that it maybe a single plane balance. For best balance, tires should always have a 2 plane balance. Some will say ... "but weights on the outside look ugly" ... oh well !!!

Here are some things to try.

- does your vibration happen or worsen at different speeds ???

- does it change when pavement conditions change ???

- can you tell if it is coming from left or right or front of back ???

- do you feel it in the bars, foot rests, or seat ???

- is it gone on smooth pavement ???

Sometime mounting a different set of tires/wheels is needed as a test.

[Ruothere]

I have a 2017 MT Razor kit on a 2010 1800, Adventure or Razor identical subframe. The installer put on an off brand set of tires (Fuzion) made by Bridgestone on the back. Maybe it's the poor quality tires? While ascending a hill in the rain, in third gear (short shifted because of the rain) the rear end stepped out pretty hard to the left like a rear wheel drive car in the snow. My wife and I on the trike pulling a Hannigan trailer behind us. As I mentioned above, I'm running 22/23psi in the rear, 40/41 in the front Michelin Pilot.

QUESTIONS:

- does your vibration happen or worsen at different speeds ??? It increases with speed, it decreases as I increase (stiffen) the suspension setting, it decreases with rider and passenger.

- does it change when pavement conditions change ? Somewhat still there, the better the surface the less vibration but still there

- can you tell if it is coming from left or right or front of back ??? Simple answer no, but feeling it's more in the rear

- do you feel it in the bars, foot rests, or seat ??? Yes to all with my mirrors shaking so the image is distorted.

- is it gone on smooth pavement ??? No but lessens

[lgjhn]

Hi Kevin.

All that added tire weight to your rim makes me pretty suspicious of one of the tires. Sometimes, they just come out of manufacturing really heavy on one side.

I've got the exact same problem myself, but I know what's causing mine: tire balance for sure.

Mine was smooth as silk on a smooth road with the old tires, but they were starting to get really "long on the tooth". When I replaced the old tires, there were no wheel weights on the rims at all which kinda surprised me. I put on a new pair and used dyna-beads for balancing. I put in the recommended amount for the tire size, but obviously, they didn't work. I probably don't have enough of em in there, or maybe I shouldn't have put any at all which is unlikely.

My first step is to add another ounce of beads and see if it makes any appreciable difference.

IF additional beads show no improvement, then I'll bust em back off the rims, remove the beads and try it without em just to see.

IF no luck, I'll go a liquid balancer that many 18-wheelers use in their front tires....I forget the brand name right offhand, but I can get it.

IF that doesn't work, I'll remove em, clean out the liquid, remount and have em spin balanced and checked for concentricity.

I have had a lot going on here lately, and been kinda waiting for a little cooler weather to do this.

I have a tire machine in my shop so that will allow me to "experiment" a little bit with this. Even so, busting down tires is not one of my favorite activities...LOL.

I suspect I don't have enough beads in em....we'll see next week.

[Gold Rush]

Years ago I was having all these same problems with my Motor Trike Adventure. In searching to resolve the issue I happen on the Dyna Bead web site and read about a condition called "Lateral Imbalance" I've looked for that information since and they have changed their web site... The quick and simple point of their information was to counter the condition one should "Road Force" balance the tire and then add their Dyna Beads to fine tune that balance process. That is exactly what I have done every since and it works great.

Keep in mind the dynamics of any offset driveshaft. There is going to be some degree of vibration created due to the eccentric motion of the rotating shaft. My issue went from not being able to use my rear view mirror at all to almost OEM quality. IMHO this should be SOP for all trike rear wheels.

[GoldWingrGreg]

QUESTIONS:

- does your vibration happen or worsen at different speeds ??? It increases with speed, it decreases as I increase (stiffen) the suspension setting, it decreases with rider and passenger.

- does it change when pavement conditions change ? Somewhat still there, the better the surface the less vibration but still there

- can you tell if it is coming from left or right or front of back ??? Simple answer no, but feeling it's more in the rear

- do you feel it in the bars, foot rests, or seat ??? Yes to all with my mirrors shaking so the image is distorted.

- is it gone on smooth pavement ??? No but lessens

- On a smooth surface like a garage floor, while not running and in 'N', when you back it up by hand can you feel any cupping in the front tire ???

- type and mileage on front tire ???

Not sure what your trike kits Owner's Manual says for your's but the tire air pressure should be set to what they recommend. If they have no recommendation for the front tire, then it should be set to Honda's sticker in the trunk which is 36psi.

[Lee H. Mann]

MICHELIN PILOT !!!!!!

[keepinon]

On my '07 with the Adventure kit, I've only had vibration issues when the tires were due for replacement. Folks talk about off-brand tires, but I've been running the WalMart Douglas tires for years, on our vehicles, and now two trikes. They're made by Goodyear, in their Kelly-Springfield plant, from the research I did. Great tire, all around. I run more air pressure than most, 28 psi, 'cause most times we're double, loaded, pulling a trailer.

Anyway, Douglas on the rear, BT-45 on the front with Ride-On balancer in all. Most of my vibrations came from a worn front tire. It doesn't take but a little shallow cupping to really set the mirrors buzzing. Also check that your's has the "green " front u-joint, that both front & rear u-joints are tight & greased regularly.

On the issue of side-slipping in the rain, I've owned two MT conversions. A Coupe kit on a Valkyrie, and the current Adventure. With both, I've had hydro-planing issues. On the Adventure, we were caught in a west Texas plains down pour, high crosswinds, pulling a trailer when we hydro-planed across both lanes. Glad there was no traffic coming. IMO, MT uses a tire a little too wide. The Valk had 245 series, the Adventure 235/60 series. Anyway, both were changed to a Douglas 205/70. We've been 30K miles this year, in all weather, from light snow to heavy rain, never strayed from the straight & narrow.

You'll get the issue worked out. I dislike one thing about the MT IRS, but the Adventure has been rock solid & reliable for us.

[lgjhn]

Jerry,

Your comments on Road Force balancing got me to thinking. There are not many shops in small towns that have those machines. However, when Road Force balancing is done, the computer readout provides the solution which is to slide the tire on the rim so that the point of the heaviest lateral imbalance is on the lightest part of the rim as per the computer readout, and after that's done, then commence to conventionally balance either with beads or weights. Many radial tires today come from the manufacturer with both a red and yellow dot. Where red is indicating where that lateral imbalance is on a radial tire. Usually, when we mount tires, we put the yellow dot to the valve stem. However "red has priority" on these types of tires, and it's the red dot that should go there instead.

With all that said, I pulled my rear tires (top of the line Michelin radials) back off this afternoon, broke em back down, slid the tires on the rims accordingly, added another ounce of beads and put em all back together and back onto the trike. I also dropped the nitrogen pressure down to 24 psig from 26 psig based on the contact patch that I was seeing. 24 gives me a little better patch profile.

So out on the road I go and Viola!!! Most, if not all, of my tire vibration has disappeared. It's now as good as, if not better, then it was with the old original tires. My trike was never as smooth as my double dark-sided F6B is for many reasons, but she's now very rideable with hardly any vibration and no blurry mirrors.

Thanks, old friend!!!

[Gold Rush]

Not all of us have the toys you do Larry so we depend on those shops with Road Force Balancing equipment to help out. Fortunately I found a shop here in San Angelo that does good work and I don't have to take out a loan to reward them. Several of my friends have taken their trike tires in and had them balanced with very good results. It's good to see these companies passing on information to actually help us..

[lgjhn]

Jerry, I did not want to hijack the OP's thread, but I think a lot of the OPs problems are along this line and your recommendation is a good one.

IF he can find a shop with Road Force balancing capability and get it done properly, it may just solve the issues he's having.

I have some contacts that may be able to assist me in procuring one of those machines for my shop. If so, it would be the only one in this area that I'm aware of. I've changed probably 70 or so mc tires so far this year, mostly GWs and a few Harleys. I've also done several sets for automobiles as well. As far as trikes are concerned, mine is the only one I've done the rear tires on so far. If I'm going to invest in a tire balancer, I'd like to go with the Road Force type.

I plan on being at the SEMA convention in Vegas at the end of the month and will be checking them out first hand.

[Ruothere]

- On a smooth surface like a garage floor, while not running and in 'N', when you back it up by hand can you feel any cupping in the front tire ???

- type and mileage on front tire ???

Not sure what your trike kits Owner's Manual says for your's but the tire air pressure should be set to what they recommend. If they have no recommendation for the front tire, then it should be set to Honda's sticker in the trunk which is 36psi.

Mileage on tires around 4000, no I'm not feeling the dread cupping that I used to with Dunlop front tires when the Wing was two wheels. I'm running 41psi in the front which is what most of the MT conversions are running, so I've read and heard.

[trike tech]

Some of this has been answered, but this is something I do & recommend with ANY vehicle with any sort of vibration.

Find the speed range that the vibration is the most pronounced (in your case, do NOT rely on your mirrors, only felt vibration). When you find that "magic speed" maintain speed, down shift or upshift while maintaining the same speed. Does the vibration change or stay the same? IF it changes, does it get better or worse? Now repeat & do the opposite of last time (if you downshifted before, upshift (if possible)), same questions.

It may seem trivial in doing, but this is an VERY important equation in helping to determine the issue at hand.

The vibration you're feeling in the bike and your mirrors may have nothing to do with each other (they may be tied together, but it's best to separate the two concerns until it's confirmed they are directly tied together).

Now to explain why I said to ignore your mirrors in doing this. Many years ago while I was still a tech we had a bike that had a HORRIBLE shake in the mirrors (the stripes in the road looked like 4 sets of stripes it was so bad) & a vibration in the bike itself. We went over the bike several times over a few months of repeat visits by the customer and could find nothing wrong or out of the ordinary (the felt vibration in the bike was determined to be "typical" vibrations that some GL's have).

We had a dealer drop off a brand new Goldwing early for a conversion (demo for their floor), so we removed one of the mirrors from the new motorcycle and installed on the customers trike. The new mirror was vibration free & the images behind the bike were crystal clear while the other mirror has so much vibration you couldn't see behind you. The bushings inside the mirror housing were worn out and had been causing the primary issue for the customer all along (he didn't notice it as a 2 wheeler for a few reasons that aren't worth diving into).

I'm not "pointing the finger" at your mirrors, but am saying it's worth taking a look at on a bike that's 8 years old (ESPECIALLY if it has wind deflectors mounted under the mirrors).

[GoldWingrGreg]

We had a dealer drop off a brand new Goldwing early for a conversion (demo for their floor), so we removed one of the mirrors from the new motorcycle and installed on the customers trike. The new mirror was vibration free & the images behind the bike were crystal clear while the other mirror has so much vibration you couldn't see behind you. The bushings inside the mirror housing were worn out and had been causing the primary issue for the customer all along (he didn't notice it as a 2 wheeler for a few reasons that aren't worth diving into).

I'm not "pointing the finger" at your mirrors, but am saying it's worth taking a look at on a bike that's 8 years old (ESPECIALLY if it has wind deflectors mounted under the mirrors).

Boy that's a good point, and I've seen that too. Not only wind deflectors, but any additional lighting, or chrome, or Muth mirrors ... basically anything that adds weight or add'l stress to the mirrors can make them heavier or more stressed then how they are designed to be. Overtime such stress can take a toll on various mount points.

Also, check where the mirror mount. Sometimes their mount screws are loose or missing. I saw one with a cracked sub frame where the mirrors mount.

[Pcolawinger]

My bike was recently triked. Upon delivery, I encountered severe vibrations when I reached 65 mph or greater. After having counteract beads put in all 3 tires, the problem seemed better, but not entirely gone. I took a 1000 mile trip and the windshield and mirrors vibrated so bad I thought they were going to fly off. A trip to my local trike shop and I had the front tire (BT 45) replaced with an Avon and the ride improved during slow speed, but still vibrated terribly at 65+.

Back to the shop and it was put up on the rack, the owner spun the rear tires and slowly moved a square closer to the tire tread and it was obvious that there were flat spots on both rear tires. A check of the dates indicated the tires were at least 4.5 years old, even though the kit was only recently installed. After a few calls to the kit manufacturer, a new set of rear tires was authorized and I was reimbursed for their cost. As soon as I pulled out of the tire company parking lot, it was immediately evident that this was the problem all along and I couldn’t be happier with how absolutely smooth rides.