My Tow-Pac 14" InstaTrike Install on Ultra Classic Harley

[HarleyBob]

Les

My set up is not like yours. I don't have a center stand but I have a motorcycle jack.

When I jack it up the Cart wheels will not lift off the ground, due to the motorcycle front tire coming up first. Seems the weight of the cart causes this to happen! However it does take some weight off the cart wheels but will not lift them.

The rule-of-thumb Tow-Pac give for proper down pressure is as vague as their manual! too many variables.

But this is how I got the wheels to turn. I grab the slot in the mag one handed from the back and jerk on the wheel and it turns. I wouldn't say it's real hard but not real easy ether. I put my weight into it and I weigh 200#

Now if I was 230 it would turn easier or 150 it would be harder. So what does this tell me???? Who knows?

So far I like the ride with no issues at all.

***If you had too much down pressure what would happen?

***If you had too little what would happen?



Slots in mags. But not the same floor. It's at my shop!

****OK I can turn it with my hands on the tires, but it's Very Hard.

Looks like I will have to arm wrestle the guy at Tow Pac to get a better idea if it's set right! Also see if his floor is smooth or rough! LOL!

 

[dadztoy]

Your absolutely correct Bob - lots of variables there but I think we are on the right path... Even with my 12" wheels, it takes a pretty good tug on my smooth cement garage floor to move them...

Well, to much down force on cart wheels will result in loss of traction on bike's rear drive wheel... Too little down force and the bike will tend to wallow from side to side... It's really all in the feel and how firm you want the ride... And of course, tire pressure plays a part too, as does rear suspension settings on bike... You'll have lots of playing around to do this summer... That's why it took me so long to get everything dialed in...

I am one of those guys that is very attuned to my cars, truck, and bike... I know every little noise and idiosyncrasy on all of them, so if something changes, I can usually track it down...

I run my rear suspension at somewhere between 15-18 on the Wing's display and my TP cart tires are at 32 PSI (as opposed to Tow Pac's recommended 50 PSI)... The rear frame of my TP cart is 11" off the ground, and rear bike tire (which is a Yokohama Avid Envigor ZPS run flat car tire) is at 28 PSI... My front tire, a Bridgestone Battlax is at 41 PSI and I am actually running what they call double darkside because that front tire is actually a GL1500 rear tire...

I run darkside because tire mileage was so poor running the trike kit with normal bike tires and all the scrubbing action that takes place on the tires with these kits... My last set of Bridgestone G704/709 only yielded 8K miles and the front tire was cupped so badly, the handle bars oscillated until I got above 35 MPH...

My last Yoko yielded 17K miles and had about another 5K left and my Battlax front tire was at 20K with about another 5K left... Both tires were changed because I was riding our to the west coast in September with friends and wanted new tires on the bike for that trip...

I don't know of any HD guys running car tires but I don't see why it wouldn't work for you as well with the Harley... The bike handles equally well (actually better) with the car tire on the rear... Better ride 2 up and better handling in the rain - - AND - - - it is a run flat, so there is that!!!

I have TPMS on the bike so I can monitor tire pressure and temperature so that all works out pretty well...

Now - if it would just get warmer so I can ride!!! Santa brought me a set of LED headlights I have to install too, but gonna wait for a bit warmer weather before I get out in the garage... I could fire up the space heater, but it takes a lot of kerosene to heat the 30'X36' man cave with 11' ceilings - actually taller than that too because there is no ceiling in the garage it is a 8/12 pitch so the roof line is pretty close to 25' at the peak...

Les

 

[HarleyBob]

Les, Thanks lots of info. Yes Harley riders do go to the dark side. Tire pressure is something I need to take a look at. Traction on the bikes rear tire could be an issue. I can see where you have to trade off traction for more stability on the cart's tires.

The front brakes are 70% of the stopping on a two wheeler. So I would think you would get some what less that 30% on the rear with a cart. How much less will be up to the rider and his adjustments.

 

[Marc H]

Bob it came out looking great.Now you can get out and enjoy it.

 

[dadztoy]

Les, Thanks lots of info. Yes Harley riders do go to the dark side. Tire pressure is something I need to take a look at. Traction on the bikes rear tire could be an issue. I can see where you have to trade off traction for more stability on the cart's tires.

The front brakes are 70% of the stopping on a two wheeler. So I would think you would get some what less that 30% on the rear with a cart. How much less will be up to the rider and his adjustments.

I may have missed it in conversation Bob, but does your bike have ABS??? Do the HD's have a linked braking system like the Goldwing??? I don't know much about them even though I have rented them a time or two on various vacations... I am aware of the higher percentage of braking on the front brakes on most vehicles though...

One of the reasons I hesitate in going to a reverse trike like the Tilting Motor Werks conversion, or even most of the other trike conversions, is that in most cases you lose the ABS and linked brakes of the Goldwing...

Personally, I think all motorcycles should have ABS - it is quite a safety feature... Having had a few close ones in my 50+ years of riding, and one very bad accident in the 70's, a rider needs all the advantages he/she can get and IMO, ABS and linked brakes are 2 very important features I refuse to give up... At my age (71- - - 72 on Feb 4), my reflexes have slowed up considerably, and I don't "bounce" nearly as good as I used to in my younger years, so I'm trying desperately to avoid a repeat of the 70's years when I nearly "bought the farm"!!!

The Wings brakes are outstanding and will really haul her down fast if needed... In that respect, I do feel quite safe when riding my bike... One of the reasons I bought the Tow Pac was I was losing both upper body and leg strength... The wife will ride with me anywhere but has always told me: "Drop me once, and we're done!!" so I did what any reasonable husband would do and took advantage of that statement and bought a trike kit!!

I still ride on 2 wheels solo quite a bit, but when riding 2up, I usually have the trike kit on... I do enjoy the increased peace of mind and stability, but of course miss leaning thru those curves... That's why I like the Tilting Motor Werks conversion so much - best of both worlds EXCEPT for the missing ABS/Linked brake system...

Off the soap box now - have a great weekend... Cold here - no riding for at least the foreseeable week or two...

Les

 

[HarleyBob]

My Harley just has Twin disc brakes in the front and a single disc in the rear. No linked brakes.

I took it out for a ride yesterday. The first one after getting it home that cold rainy first ride home from the painter. I noticed on rough roads the right fender rattles. No rattle on smooth roads. I met up at Hooters with some Brother for a meet and then a ride. Now these guys roll. I couldn't keep up on the tight turns but kept up on the straightaway! I didn't want to push it in the turns until I see how it handles. I'm going to double check the bolts this morning, especially on the right side.

***All is tight but I had this 8" round plastic road emergency flashing light, that no longer works, in the right saddle bag. I through it out. That could have been the rattle. On two wheels it's a smoother ride than with the Cart on. So It would have not rattled much. Getting cold so next time I ride I will see.***

 

[dadztoy]

Sounds good Bob, glad you got out for a ride - too cold here to ride now...

My Fenders do not rattle but above 70MPH they shake rather violently... So much so that I'm afraid the FG may crack so I keep the speed down below 70 when on trips... I'm going to experiment with cart tire pressure to see if that makes a difference and if it doesn't. I may make a brace that I can bolt on for Interstate Riding (although we do tend to stay off the Interstates while on the bike)...

I obtained some longer bolts from an Internet supplier (https://www.boltdepot.com/Socket_flat_head_Stainless_steel_18-8_1_4-20.aspx) that fit my fenders, so I can experiment a bit with struts and such...

Wonder if you had your cart tires balanced??? Maybe that's causing some vibration or perhaps you threw a wheel weight?? I was using Centramatic balancers on my cart tires, but opted to have my tire shop balance them in an effort to get a bit closer on balance... Thought that might be related to my 70+ MPH shake but alas it was not... You might look into the tire balance if you already haven't done so...

You said you couldn't keep up in the corners too well - was that because of steering effort or just trike stability??? There are a few riding tricks that I can pass along to help with cornering if you would like to hear them... They are standard trike riding methods so they are not any big secrets...

Leaning to the inside of the turn will help and if you can brace your outside foot on a highway peg, that will give you a bit more leverage in the lean... Locking your elbows in the turns for additional leverage helps too, also helps with fatigue on longer rides... And if you want to consider it, adding a 4.5 degree rake kit will help a LOT with both fatigue and ease of steering in turns... I still ride mine on 2 wheels with the rake kit, but that is something you would have to try with the HD as I don't know what the stock rake and trail is on a HD and how it would effect 2 wheel stability with the 4.5 rake kit...

Keep us informed on future rides and look down the page a bit for some of my modifications to the TP cart like adding rubber bumpers to quiet down the fenders...

https://www.triketalk.com/forum/threads/27038-Added-some-rubber-bumpers-to-my-Tow-Pac-frame

Les

 

[HarleyBob]

The cart tires have weights on them, so I would say they have been balanced. On smooth roads no rattle at all @ 60 MPH. It could have been the junk in my right saddle bag. Too cold for a ride for me to try it again! In the 20's here!

I heard the rattle, I didn't see or feel it!

On the turns. A two wheeler can go around them much faster than a trike I would think! I'm talking about 90 degree turns. Steering is not hard. I'm just taking it a bit slower than the two wheeler until I get the feel of it. I don't want to end up in the ditch. Like I said before these Combat Vet guys roll and don't play around, not like your average weekend "biker"!

 

[dadztoy]

Ahhh, OK - yeah, lots of things could be making noise...

DANG, very cold here this morning 14 degrees - GEEEZ!!! Thought I left all that up north when I moved back south... Oh well, it is what it is... Looks like we have at least a week of this coldness, maybe more - brrrrr... Stay warm!!

Les

 

[HarleyBob]

Still too cold to ride here! Well now is the time to do a Trike Build.

I did it the right time of year!

My Trike is finished and waiting for good weather!

When I did ride to the Harley shop, Hooters and around town.

Everywhere I stopped people came out to see it and complement me on the looks.

Two people asked me what would I charge to do their bike.

I told them $1000.00 but with the liability I don't think I would do that!

Nearest Tow-Pac dealer from here is 500 miles!

Now this was just my first ride in town, it's a head turner for sure!



This last picture does not show the true colors of the bike. The first two pictures do!

 

[dadztoy]

Yep, it's a purty bike to be sure... I too usually get a lot of remarks and questions, usually from the older guys about how much it cost, how does it handle, etc., etc...

In terms of your installing a kit, if it were me, I would think twice about it unless it was for a friend, and chances are all it would cost him would be a dinner out or the like... IMO, I think like you, too much liability involved in case something would happen... We live in a very litigious society and people sue at the drop of a hat and even if the accident or failure were not your fault, their attorney would be naming you in law suit along with Tow Pac and any others they could...

I help out a lot of buddies with repairs and maintenance and in most all cases, I make sure that they do the actual work rather than me - I just supervise... In the case of my really good friends, I actually do the wrenching if they want me too, but most of the time they want to actually do it, with just some guidance from a knowledgeable person watching to make sure they do it correctly, and that's fine with me...

I have one friend in particular from Chicago who usually saves his projects until he comes down to ride our TN roads once or twice a year, and then we spend a day or two in the man cave doing a little wrenching and popping a few cold ones, and then a few days riding... A nice way to spend a few days with a good friend...

 

[HarleyBob]

The people that ask me are strangers! If this is an indication of people interested, I could see a Tow-Pac dealer may do good here. But you may get only 1% of the people interested to get one if you are luck! I would think the insurance would be about $2000.00 a year, not counting the LLC you would need and the 20 year old secretary, and then the divorce! LOL!

Knowing the backup you get from Tow-Pac a dealer would be on their own!

I have a 40'X100' commercial warehouse on a main hwy. not doing anything but holding my junk. I plan on renting it out in a year. The wife would kill me if I got into another business! LOL!

 

[dadztoy]

With the aging baby boomer population, I would think there will be a lot of trike interest for a few more years anyway... Then who knows, with bike sales in general falling off in most areas...

Like your way of thinking though on the business and the 20 year old secretary, but at my age, can't afford a divorce, and probably more than I could handle anyway !!!

On the bright side, supposed to be up in the 50's here by next Wednesday and Thursday - looks like I might get out for a little spin if the forecast holds true - Yippie!!!

 

[HarleyBob]

I put it to a better test ride today. I was packing double with the wife and found it handles better. We Road only about 75 miles, on back roads. Stopped for lunch and headed home. a little cool or we would have road more! I'm enjoying the way it's handles!

*** Les, I took your advise and lean into the turns. Works and feels good! Steering never was hard for me, but leaning into the turns makes it feel better! ***

 

[Gorilla]

Sounds good Bob ride safe

 

[HarleyBob]

I plan on more testing when the weather gets better. I will do a summery so folks don't have to read the entire post I have here to get an idea.

As I wait for the weather here is me in a club in the big easy!

This is me doing a little old country in New Orleans a year ago.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=679275755597060

 

[dadztoy]

Great video and singing Bob - I am impressed!! VERY COLD here this morning - DANG!!! 6 degrees!!! No riding today but supposed to be 60+ by the weekend so chances are we'll get out for a little ride assuming that all the brine and salt is off the streets by then...

Just finished installing H&C water in the "man cave" along with new slop sink... Cleanups will be a lot easier now... Just have to make the connection now at the source - that will happen when it warms up some...

Have some new EC LED headlight bulbs to install when it gets a bit warmer - Santa brought those for me this year...

Come on Spring!!!

 

[HarleyBob]

Awesome Les.

I got everything run to my man cave but just run to the outside wall. Will have to hook up the inside. I'm going to build a music studio, restroom, office etc. Yet to start on that ambitious project!

I'm finally getting a few music Gigs as people see and hear me perform! Thanks for watching! I'm yet to hit the street hustling work! I do have one steady gig I booked for once a month @ $75.00 an hour, should be $100.00 but need to get started! If I can establish a following on my gigs then I can get more money. Clubs have to make their money also!

Tow-Pac sent me a refund of $363.00 should have been $540.00 not including the $150.00 for shipping I can forget about! They said they must have screwed up!

I requested a dealer packet just to see how it works. They said I need to purchase two more kits at retail and then I can go wholesale. But not sure if I have to get three, depending if they count the kit I bought! I love the kit I got, but lets see how they handle my refund and the kits I have to buy!

 

[dadztoy]

Sounds like you'll have a true man cave Bob - I am envious... Kind of wish I had bathroom facilities out in mine but couldn't justify the cost for the plumbing and such as we have a septic field here and not city sewers...

When I was having mine built, first builder walked off the job and that cost me a bunch as I had to act as the General then and sub out concrete, framing, roofing, etc, etc so I ran out of money before I could insulate and add heat and A/C but I still love my man cave...

If I know of anyone looking for a Tow Pac, I'll send them your way - good luck with that venture should you decide to go that way...

I have been playing guitar since my early teen years but don't play much anymore... Arthritis in my hands make it a bit painful to play like I did before... Have 2 guitars right now - a Fender acoustic my wife bought me some years ago and my Father's which I inherited when he passed... It is my pride and joy and is a 1938 Martin 00-18 still in pretty good condition... It could benefit from a little work like a neck reset and a bit of tailpiece repair, but it still sounds oh so sweet when played... Maybe some day I'll get it worked on if I can find a decent Luthier in the area...

Les

 

[HarleyBob]

Those pre-war Martins are Awesome. Sound like nothing else and each has it's own sound. Does it have a truss rod? If so I can tell you how to set the relief!

My man cave has it's own sewage tank. I had installed for a camper site my Niece used when she was here in a camper! I have some out of town friends that use it from time to time with their camper!