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Need VW type3 DP 1600 heads
Hello my friends,
Does anyone have some rebuilt heads for sale? I limped home on one cylinder from the Highway Patrol inspection... I did pass and get my license plateor can you refer me to a shop in the San Jose CA area who could rebuild mine...
Thank you so much!!!
Michael
The type 3 and type 1 are the same engine other than the fan housing and dip stick.
Decent used parts are hard to find.
If your heads are truly bad then buy new replacements.
What is actually wrong with yours?
Drop a valve?
Attaching a picture
I noticed the left exhaust pipe was blowing cold air. I checked for spark and found it on both cylinders but on the right side only spark on the rear cylinder but hot air from exhaust.
I opened the valve cover on the left and it looked like this:
The springs do not look right and you can see the pushrod sitting there;(....
This is as far as I've gone with it. The right side looks normal yet very dirty like the picture.
Michael,
From the looks of your posts though you are new to VWs you aren't afraid to twist a wrench. You've had aluminum engines before so you are aware of the limitations of aluminum and bolt torque specs. Unfortunately, in the VW world, it's not uncommon for an engine to suffer some major or minor catastrophe soon after a new owner takes possession. Can't say what the causes may be but often the "sins" of the PO come home to roost. VWs have a personality that is formed by the way they are driven and cared for. If your driving style is significantly different from the PO, you might have upset its "chi" and karma comes to visit you.
Seriously though, (1) get your self a good service manual. (Bentley Manual comes to mind) Amazon has them. Also, read Snu's tech post in VW forum.
2. Check for spark on all cylinders.
3. run a compression test on all cylinders.
4. Pop the valve covers and check the valve clearance, rocker arms, and push rods for abnormalities.
5. Check the head stud torque specs.
5. If everything checks OK so far, pull the head(s) and look for bad valves, cracked head, hole in piston, etc.
Just a rough outline/game plan. Report back and we'll help as we can.
Good Luck!
Just saw your picture. definitely a valve train problem. Got to go right now. will look tomorrow.
I also want to say there was no smoke coming out or strange noises knocks or anything else. My neighbor followed me in his truck and it was not till I heard the video he took that the engine did not sound like it was hitting on all 4. That was on the way to the exam about a 8 mile ride. It seemed mostly ok on the way there. On the way back I could not get up to 50mph and I thought maybe the throttle linkage had come off but it had not...
I guess almost 50 on one cylinder is not too bad
Thank you for your insight!!!
Michael
A cold exhaust pipe at the head means that cylinder is not running. Does not mean the head is bad, but a problem with the head is one of the many possibilities.
In the pic you have a broken exhaust valve spring.
The push rod came out do to the slack given by the broke spring.
Do you know what engine it is and/or any history it has had?
These are easily prone to over heating.
The air cooled system is easy to foul up. Park it in the shed out back for a winter and mice build a nest in the fan housing.....get it out in the spring and take a ride.....smoked engine. Dogwood trees with the big floating lint balls in the spring.....boom. suck up a wal mart bag in the parking lot....boom.
So close attention to the fan and cooling is required.
The heads take a beating from any over heat episode. They run incredibly hot to begin with. So over heating drops seat or makes cracks and burns exhaust valves.
When you rebuild or even freshen up your heads go ahead and replace the exhaust valves. Check the valve guides closely. They usually only last 70k to 80k miles.
Yes I too was thinking valve adjustment and compression test and I do have both a Chilton's and Clymer's shop manuals however over the years I've found those not to be the best manuals so I will look for a better brand.
However when I popped that valve cover off and see the broken valve and springs I thought what's the point of trying to get an valve adjustment or compression reading when the parts are obviously defective and I did not want to cause any more damage running it like that.
The history goes like owner A who built the frame etc. had this type 3 motor sitting for many years, his inlaw "the VW mechanic" got it running and said it sounded pretty good
Basically no useful history other than we know it was not really loved and cared for thus the "Chi" of the motor has been neglected and since I am an energy worker as well, I know it's Chi is imbalanced and I will smooth it out over time
It is possible I overheated it as there are no gauges installed yet. I do see a sending unit on top of the motor however unsure what it's for. I'll post a picture later... I was so focused on getting it street legal, I just took the poor motor for granted that it would make a short trip, and it did but I'll always wonder now if I could have avoided this breakage, however from my experience with motors etc this does not look like it just happened, more like it's been this way for some time....
Thank you both so much for your comments I still have much to learn about the VW.... I did visit a local shop yesterday and was shocked to hear the price of a rebuilt head is $339 each, a bit out of my price range... I also see some on ebay for $159 each from Brazil. It seems parts are from Germany , Mexico, and Brazil, I guess Germany being the preferred one's???
I'm teaching class today so I'll check back later in the afternoon. May your Chi stay in balance.....
The tech tips offered above and elsewhere on TrikeTalk by Rex, AKA: Death by SnuSnu, (the VW "Guru"), are very informative and interesting.
Not sure if you've found The Samba yet Michael, so here ya go: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/
The Samba offers many aftermarket parts sellers, as well as tech articles, forums, & tips for all types of VW powerplants.
In my unbiased opinion, at the very least it sounds like you might need to do a full on engine takedown/inspection, as the previous owners didn't show your engine much love in the maintenance dept. Also, you probably don't want to spend $600.00+ on new or rebuilt heads only to find out the lower end is in need of "freshening" too.
Let us know how you make out on your "project"!
reply
I would pay attention to what Snu said about exhaust valves and guides......the valves only cooling is thru the seat and the guide. change exh valves and your quides. get valves ground and your heads are good to go.....maybe get recut where head meets cylinder. With a little care these engines are dependable powerplants. About 45 yrs ago I bought a 67 vw....some guy said, put in new exh valves, or you will drop a valve,I didn't change valves.....dropped a valve, needed a rebuilt head. A few months later brotherinlaw bought a porche, I said change your exh valves, he didn't, dropped a valve, needed a rebuilt head. We learned the hard way..lol
Here's a link to the Bentley Manual: https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-list...condition=used
These are the official VW service manuals. New ones are pricy ($97.00 on one Amazon site). But hey, it's a shop manual! A few dog earred pages don't matter.
If you had good oil pressure you might be OK with the bottom end. You can pull the rockers and check for a bent or broken pushrod. You'll probably have to pull the heads to check the valve(s) and possible valve-piston contact damage. If it's just a broke spring, you might get away with inspecting / lapping the valves and replacing the spring. Check the heads for cracks between the valve seats and the spark plug holes. This is a common problem and means new heads. Look at the cylinder to head mating surfaces for signs of blow by. This is common due to loose head studs.
Looking forward to progress reports.
You Folks are the BEST!!!! I really appreciate all the posts, your expertise and humor
Need to prep my garage so I can do this...
Thanks again and Happy Holidays!!!!
Like I said......these things take a beating.
I doubt anything you have do so far is what killed it.
If it is horribly damaged.....it was that way before you tryed a short run.
First.
Crankshaft endplay. Harder to see and feel on a type 3 with the fan on the pulley. But is the first thing to know about. Pull and push the end of the crank. New is .003 which you can barely feel. A well used engine you can feel a very discernible click but not really see movement with the naked eye. If it has a large clunk in and out and you can see it move then it is too loose from wear and needs a rebuild of the crank, bearings and very likely machine work to the case. Especially if the seal at flywheel is leaking badly.
If this feels good then fill the cylinder with heavy string and spin the engine slowly up tight onto it holding that valve shut tight. Pry the retainer keeper out and pry in a replacement spring. Pull the string out and adjust the valves.
Now do a cranking pressure (compression test). The actual psi don't matter a lot. As long as it is over 100 psi it will run. What you are looking for is a difference. If 3 of the cylinders are 120 psi and one of them is 80.....well you have a serious problem. At this point you can do a leak down test to see if it is rings or head. But either means it comes apart so I skip it and go straight to take apart.
So assuming these check out. Take the tins off and clean the fins and fan. Check rubber items, intake gaskets, exhaust gaskets, rebuild the carb. Put it all back together and get ready for a test run. Clean fuel and filter, points plugs wires. None of which has to be new yet just in a known to be working order.
Now you are ready for the first test run. Crank it up check oil pressure right away. 10 pounds per 1000rpm. So it is idles at 800 rpm it needs 8 psi. Rev it to 4000 then 40 psi.
Has oil pressure and don't pour oil? Then take a short drive and see how it pulls/performs.
If it passes all this.....then you have an engine worth doing a decent repair or rebuild on. New valves and springs and ect....
And you can go through my build thread and see what the insides look like. But I would not advise you to try and copy any details. To put it lightly....mine is super heavily modified and is purpose build.
So the string is fed in the spark plug hole to create a spacer for the piston to push the valve so the retainer can be removed and then the spring without removing the head? I love it!!! that's a very clever trick
I think I understand the rest of it.....
Thank you so much!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Heavy string. What we down south call clothes line rope. It is 3/16 To 1/4 in diameter and fairly stiff.
Pull the rockers first.
Pull the valve shut. It should be free moving if not bent.
String in and roll engine tight.
The next part is tricky. There are "in place" spring compressors.....but they won't fit in the vw head.
You will have to rig something. It is not that hard to squeeze a stock spring. Rig a fulcrum on the stud. Pry bars. Pickle fork tie rod tool. Drill a hole in something...... whatever will work once.
And remember that in your case.....this is just so you can continue to test out what you have.
It does not "fix" your engine. Whatever wear to the other springs, valves, guides. Rings, bearings that is there now...will still be there.
Ok, Now I really get it. The String is more to keep the valve from falling into the Cylinder when the spring is removed. I can do this
I do have oil leakage though I'm not sure it's from flywheel but most likely as it's near the junction of the engine and transmission where the most comes out. Maybe about the diameter of a quarter in a few days so I don't know if that would be considered a lot however it is a pain making me use a drip pan....
I'll first remove the fan housing / belt to try and get a best feel for the crank play......
Thanks a million!!!
Hey Rocky, watch me pull a string out of my hat!
Great trick Rex! Easier than building an air compressor / spark plug adapter.
Will the real TDC please stand up?
Well I made some progress and now I'm confused as to which mark is indicating TDC. Below are two pic's. The one with NO white mark is pointing the rotor at Number 1 cylinder wire, however 180 around we see a white mark but the rotor is pointing at number 4 cylinder wire? Did someone mark the wrong spot? So far all the references I've found do not show it very clear to me however I bet its the non marked one?
Also do I have enough removed now to check the crank end play? So far I could not get it to click or clunk shaking or jerking it around the best I could. I've also removed the leaky carbs to either rebuild myself or have them done...
Thank you so much!!!
Michael
The 180 out paint mark was put there by someone for valve adjusting purposes.
Here's how it works:
1. Set #1 TDC by turning engine until timing mark lines up with the marker and distributor rotor points to #1. Adjust #1 valves.
2. Rotate crank counterclockwise 180 degrees until paint mark aligns with the marker and adjust the #2 valves.
3. Rotate crank counterclockwise 180 degrees until timing mark aligns with the marker and adjust the #3 valves.
4. Rotate crank counterclockwise 180 degrees until timing mark aligns with the marker and adjust the #4 valves.
Done.
As for checking the crank end play, you might have to pull the engine and use a dial indicator on the flywheel to really get a good idea of where you are. I'm not familiar with the Type3 configuration. If you're leaking oil from the bellhousing area you probably have a rear main seal leak and will have to pull the flywheel to fix. That's a whole other can 'o worms requiring a flywheel lock, 36mm 3/4 socket, and a big pipe (whole lot o torque).
Oh Thank you so much. I think I do have a dial indicator...... I also noticed the generator has a whistle sound when spun by hand......
Thanks again!!!!
Michael
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