My Trike

[grandpanystrom61]

So here is the drum with an adapter for the wide spoke rims, which are also a 5 lug pattern, just smaller.



And you mentioned a area for the mechanical fuel pump, not sure, but on the rear right side of the oil pump is this.

would the fuel pump mount on this lower right corner where that oval cover plate is ?

 

[rhino 2]

So here is the drum with an adapter for the wide spoke rims, which are also a 5 lug pattern, just smaller.

View attachment 55654

And you mentioned a area for the mechanical fuel pump, not sure, but on the rear right side of the oil pump is this.

View attachment 55655 would the fuel pump mount on this lower right corner where that oval cover plate is ?

Why not use an electric fuel pump wired into the ignition switch ,....And mount it as close to the fuel tank as you can...:Shrug:

 

[grandpanystrom61]

Why not use an electric fuel pump wired into the ignition switch ,....And mount it as close to the fuel tank as you can...:Shrug:

I do have a electric fuel pump with a pressure regulator. If the carb's only need 2 lbs of fuel pressure, than the electric pump provides more pressure than needed. I was asked if there was a mechanical fuel pump port.

With the temp tank being high as it is, there is a siphon of fuel, maybe sticky float valve, but got a shut off valve on the way. A mechanical pump would eliminate the siphon issue. I do believe that is what it is about.

 

[Sidecarbill]

Mechanical pump won't necessarily keep gas from draining into the carb. Mechanical fuel pumps are a nightmare on old VW's. You really can't find a good one, they all put out to much pressure. If you shim with gaskets to lower pressure usually it will create volume problems. I'd go low pressure electric. Put one on my friends bus 1 1/2 lbs pressure I believe and no more problem. Put an electronic shut off valve so it can't flood the engine.

 

[rhino 2]

Mechanical pump won't necessarily keep gas from draining into the carb. Mechanical fuel pumps are a nightmare on old VW's. You really can't find a good one, they all put out to much pressure. If you shim with gaskets to lower pressure usually it will create volume problems. I'd go low pressure electric. Put one on my friends bus 1 1/2 lbs pressure I believe and no more problem. Put an electronic shut off valve so it can't flood the engine.

I put one on my VW Dune Buggy......Way back in the early 70's...

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

I asked about fuel pump mount to narrow down the year or type of engine case.

In 1975 they no longer had a mechanical pump so the mount was not machined.

The picture is not the fuel pump mount. But it does tell us something.

That is a universal replacement engine case. That oval plate is a blank off plate for the type 3 engine dip stick. That stray bolt and threaded hole that does nothing is the mount point for the type 2 moustache bar. It probably has the fuel pump mount also (beside distributor). Thus....universal...whichever it needs to be type 1 2 or 3. All the same engine with the difference being everything that bolts to the outside of the engine.

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

Ok.

So that is not the brake drums that go with an irs rear. I would say that those 66 or 67 swing axle drums.

This is what it should look like.



But what you have can work. Just have to deal with the shims and spacers to get them to sit and tighten up right.

You can even get them in other bolt patterns.

 

[peteg59]

The mech. fuel pump is mounted just to the right of the distributor & to the left of the gen/alt. stand.

If the engine came setup for a mech. pump and you're now running an electric pump, you might see a block off plate shaped like this:

 

[grandpanystrom61]

I did get the compression test done after checking valve clearance. 120 lbs pressure on #1 and #2 cylinders, #3 I had issues getting the tool tightened all the way, so it only got to 100 or 102 lbs pressure, yet #4 cylinder was like 137 to 140 lbs pressure. Valve clearance set at .006 gap, and yes I double checked the clearance after tightening the lock nuts.

So the axle spline is to long for the narrow drums, or the drums on IRS systems are wider and use a longer axle spline.

Just trying to get an idea of what needs to be replaced to get all correct, yes I understand that could lead to a possible change in lug nut pattern or rim change. Just wondering the approach one would take to correct it.

Go to a junk yard and find the beetle 72 to 74 with IRS and pull the brake, drums, backing plates, and axle splines?

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

Hmmmm.

As far as I remember most all the drum diameter and shoe size were the same. I will look around for any info.

I can imagine that the very last of the US models as they got bigger may have had larger rear brakes to go with that weight.

At first just the spline got longer for durability reasons.

 

[grandpanystrom61]

So it appears I need to take off the chrome tin on the head if I want to have clear access so I can tighten the compression tester so I get a true reading.

With #4 testing at 140 plus lbs, I just feel I did not get true readings on the other cylinders, but maybe, just thought it would be a tighter range between the cylinders.

So much has changed in the last 20 years. I think I need to visit a few top end VW part houses and see what is all out there now for them.

I seen one add for rims, never new they made them, now a stock fitting drum with multiple bolt patterns, now that could have been used years go big time.

The spacer and shim's on the axle are more about drum position and the ability to tighten the axle nut correctly, not trying to torque it down on it's last threads, which would leave some free play in the spline and maybe the brake drum.

What do I do from here now that I know this. Run with what I have, it was working before ?

Or do I look at what is wrong, and do it up right, snag all the rear end off a 72 to 74 bug, what I need, and clean up and rebuild it, and put it all on the trike ? Guess most of it would be just swapping the new brake parts over.

Guidance, any of your thoughts are welcomed, love to read the input and ideas.

Asking because I was going to change the suspension bushings on trailing arms, have a little top to bottom slope in wheel bearings (left side worst), so was going to replace those. If I need to do other work in this area, well I have to disconnect brake lines and all that, probably should do the other work on each side of the rear end.

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

I would rebuild what I have already.

If you get the parts off a salvage yard they will be just as worn and in need of rebuild as what you currently have.

Put bushings and bearing in what you have.

The brake drums will work with the right spacers. If they are in good condition as far as wear to brake surface....run them, they worked before. Plus the adapters and rims line up with your fenders. If they are worn and in need of replacement then that opens up a whole new decision. Disc? New drums? Adapters? Change of bolt pattern? Change of rims?

As far as cranking pressure.

None of your numbers sound crazy low. But you do want them in the 10% difference range. Number 3 is the first to burn up and is usually the lowest one.

As it stands I would run it for a season and find out how it is and what I have. It had sat up a long time and it may all be from that. Run it and see if it even out or gets worse.

Again....What about oil cooler? Where is it?

 

[grandpanystrom61]

oil cooler, what is that ?

Okay, no oil cooler, as I take it would be a external looking radiator with heavy duty looking lines going to the engine block. Or is this oil cooler under the fan shroud. I will look up a 72 beetle engine break down and educate myself.

Oh, I did look and see the plate bolted over the area the fuel pump mounts, so that does help confirm the year of the block.

I do agree about running it and seeing what it is all about, I know I laid rubber with the right rear tire a few weeks back, just messing around checking the clutch and release range, wanted to see what happened if my foot slipped off the clutch pedal, now I know!

All I see is the rubber lines (that attach to the carb below the air filter) which lead behind the fan to a box that has two other rubber lines going to valve covers. And on the back side there is a hose that loops from on port to another a few inch's above it, take it to be the heater tubes ???

 

[grandpanystrom61]

I am a bit old school and like the look of the trike , so I will get it fix up and enjoy it, at least until something wears or breaks in the rear, and than I will revamp it or upgrade it.

Oil cooler, wow, can not believe one is not used on this engine being in this hot dry state. Need to check this out.

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

The stock oil cooler would be inside the fan housing. The stock fan housing that is. I have not seen a good pic.....But yours looks like a slope top aftermarket housing. Those have no provisions for an oil cooler. It is completely dependent on you adding an external oil cooling system.

If someone put that housing on without adding an external cooler the oil will overheat and you will seize a bearing. This is common aftermarket hot rod modifications.

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

Hoses from filter bases and valve covers to a box thing would be case vent.

Hose from intake manifold to the other manifold would be a balance tube. Helps dual single barrels idle better.

A hose sticking out of the fan housing near #3 And doing a u turn and back in a couple inches above the other would be a bypass hose hooked to a oil cooler flange adapter. Those would supposed to go to a cooler set up.

 

[vwbug72501]

http://www.scatvw.com/oil-coolers-accessories/

Sounds like you have the bypass adapter but no cooler. You can add the cooler easily enough for $32.99 with slip on ends and some more rubber lines. These coolers are often mounted on the front of the upright fan housing in front of the fan intake opening. I wouldn't run it in any heat with out the cooler. There might be one already mounted up on the shroud (hard to see) and someone bypassed it due to a cooler or hose leak.

 

[grandpanystrom61]

pics of what I see

Looking it over I see what I had looked up, kinda, here is the picture.



There is nothing on the back side of the fan shroud.

and if I remember correctly, that case vent box is suppose to be cleaned every so often, and my mind thinks there is some type of filter material used inside it.



Taken from right side of engine, and the first pic was taken from the left side (3 and 4) cylinders.

I have no idea if it has ran all this time with out a oil cooler, I highly doubt it because they did take a few trips on it, so I have heard, so I will have to go with the fact that the old cooler was removed because of leaks, or I pray that was the case.

Now I got to get a new one. From what I read I would not benefit a lot with a external mounted cooler, but would do better with a full flow external oil filter set up with just the stock oil cooler.

If this is a aftermarket fan shroud, did the copy the venting and flanges of the original one ? I just read how well the Germans design the fan shroud to cool the engine, and why the internal cooler in the shroud caused the #3 cylinder to run hotter than others, lack of air flow to cool it, so I have learned a lot today.

We can do so much to look cool, think we are doing the engine better, and the reality is it all just cost money and really does nothing, sometimes create problems rather than fix them....

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

Yep. Sorry.

That is what the cooler would hook to.

Also a stock late model ie 1600 dual port like you have there would have had the best cooling vw ever had on a beetle. Even an aftermarket hot rod part would have a hard time of matching the performance of the original.

A fairly large square cooler with its own electric fan can do fairly well if mounted where it can get plenty air flow.

The early engines up until the 1600 had the cooler inside in the direct air flow of the air going towards 3 and 4. The air flow was fine....All that was engineered in....All worked as it should on the smaller engines. But was not capable on the largest engine. Not that it blocked flow but that cooling that side with already hot air did not work out.

So here we get what is called the dog house oil cooler. The cooler got moved out of the direct flow. It is now in its own add on lean too (dog house). Then a larger fan and a separate ducted air flow to the cooler. It is a system that is hard to beat.

That adapter on the cooler flange directs what would be the cooler oil flow out.

Full flow is tapping into the direct flow from the pump. All the oil all the time goes through it. You get cooling whether you need it or not.

I think I described all this somewhere before.

 

[vwbug72501]

I had the external oil cooler shown in the Scat page that I posted a link to on several engines over many years. Put thousands of hard miles on them and never had a heat problem. The cooler was mounted over the fan input opening on the back of the upright shroud. If you get the 50102 cooler listed, it should work fine.