Tuning Question

[MDO]

You are going to like those wires

They ohm test good

I don't like the SE plugs Just my deal Did some ohm checks on em, did not like what I saw

Never had any luck with them

I hope this solves your problem

Remember to check that cap on the end of the plug It should be snug

Ok Jack, I need to borrow a cup of experience.

Way back when, auto spark plug wires, when new, would Ohm test between 7-9,000 ohms.

Are newer Harley plug wires the same?

[DK Custom Products]

If you haven't installed them yet they should take them back

I think I measured my last set out at 40-50 ohms ( 4k- 5k on the 1000 scale)

I am anal about testing wires and spark plugs

On another forum , myself and a friend did tests on most major plugs including SE and Splitfire plugs and the problems with HD Ion Sensing



You would be surprised at what we found

Spark plug discussions are almost like oil...so many different opinions. I tend to stay out of them.

I will just say...over the years I have tested MANY different plugs, including the ones you listed above...I've always gone back to the factory OEM plugs and been most satisfied with them.

No offense intended to anyone.

Kevin

[Jack Klarich]

Ok Jack, I need to borrow a cup of experience.

Way back when, auto spark plug wires, when new, would Ohm test between 7-9,000 ohms.

Are newer Harley plug wires the same?

Most new systems are less ohms now

Thanks to better technology

The wires and coils can deliver more punch and last longer

[Jack Klarich]

Spark plug discussions are almost like oil...so many different opinions. I tend to stay out of them.

I will just say...over the years I have tested MANY different plugs, including the ones you listed above...I've always gone back to the factory OEM plugs and been most satisfied with them.

No offense intended to anyone.

Kevin

I couldn't agree more

I have to laugh at some of the adds claiming to add HP

At the end of the day you could have a bazilloion HP

JMO

[FuzzyWuzHe]

So today I installed the new plugs and wires.

Removed the tank:



Removed the plugs and wires and here's what I found:

Rear old 12.43 Ohms New 8.9

Front old 5.94 Ohms, new 9.2

Rear plug 0.034" gap

Front plug 0.041" gap

Spec 0.038-0.043

New Plugs 11.6 & 10.9 ohms

gapped to 0.041"

So. The rear plug gap was out of spec on the gap. Ohm readings seem okay to me on both old and new although rear was the highest.

The rear plug had a little misaligned gap:



So, anything really note worthy? Not really. So I put in the new wires:

They kind of fit:



I checked for damaged o2 sensor wires or maybe fuel injector wire. Nothing obvious. Buttoned every thing up, fired it up, let it run awhile and shut it down and checked for codes. Nada ... happy happy.

Took it for the same ride I did Wednesday, and it "seemed" to run better, checked for codes, you guessed it, PO152. I'm gonna do a couple fills and if I'm still getting codes, off to Harley for a fix.

[FuzzyWuzHe]

Took the bike to HD today, they put it on their machine, and let them look at it. They put it on their machine, checked everything out and the did some research. Seems the bike was tuned for sea level, and now resides at 5200 feet higher. They said to run a few tanks of high test through it and see if the ECM will adjust to the Altitude, if not, I'll have to retune it. If I have to, I will do it with a power vision. Should of got one while they were on sale.

[DK Custom Products]

Took the bike to HD today, they put it on their machine, and let them look at it. They put it on their machine, checked everything out and the did some research. Seems the bike was tuned for sea level, and now resides at 5200 feet higher. They said to run a few tanks of high test through it and see if the ECM will adjust to the Altitude, if not, I'll have to retune it. If I have to, I will do it with a power vision. Should of got one while they were on sale.

Interesting. Gonna look further into this.

Kevin

[FuzzyWuzHe]

Interesting. Gonna look further into this.

Kevin

I do know the ECM will make minor adjustments, but, I've got 350 miles on the bike now and I think it would of completed that by now. Of course, I did change wires and plugs, yet something else for the ECM to adjust to.

The other interesting thing they said was that they cleared the historic codes and they didn't come back. I rode it from the dealer to my house, maybe 6 miles and according to the test you do where it shows you codes on the dash, it was back. I assume their machine gets the codes from the same place that test does?

They also said the Screaming Eagle plugs need to be gapped differently, so they re gapped them. This sounded really sketchy to me, but, they are supposed to be the pros.

They also said it could take up to 500 miles for the ECM to adjust fully. So when they put a tune in the bike at sea level and ship it to Grand Junction, it's kind of the same situation. Although, the stock tunes are so lean, I doubt you'd get the PO152 (rich rear cylinder O2 sensor). I kind of still think it's a tune situation, but, I will wait until 500 miles and I'll do another tank with Hi Test.

The bike did seem to run well.

[DK Custom Products]

Took the bike to HD today, they put it on their machine, and let them look at it. They put it on their machine, checked everything out and the did some research. Seems the bike was tuned for sea level, and now resides at 5200 feet higher. They said to run a few tanks of high test through it and see if the ECM will adjust to the Altitude, if not, I'll have to retune it. If I have to, I will do it with a power vision. Should of got one while they were on sale.

I saw this post first thing this morning and thought...that doesn't sound right...but I wanted to double check before I said anything definitive.

Harley ships the exact same tune on bikes to Colorado (5200 ft. elevation) as to Southern California (sea level). There is NO difference in the tunes. This is because the ECM, in conjunction with the o2 sensors, immediately makes whatever changes are needed as elevation changes.

There is no lag. A bike that was tuned properly at sea level, will also have the same proper tune at 5200 ft. elevation - immediately.

It is true, that if you put different pipes or air cleaner on it, it can take a couple of tanks of gas for the ECM to adjust the TRIM for the AFR...but this is because there was a change in hardware (regardless of elevation) that it has to adjust for.

If it was running well (with no codes) at sea level, it will run well (no codes) at 5200 ft elevation.

So there is something else going on....either a bad tune, hardware added/changed after the tune, bad connection or sensor, could be a gummed up throttle body sensor due to the nasty stuff be recirculated.

But, it is not what they told you.

Kevin

[Jack Klarich]

Took the bike to HD today, they put it on their machine, and let them look at it. They put it on their machine, checked everything out and the did some research. Seems the bike was tuned for sea level, and now resides at 5200 feet higher. They said to run a few tanks of high test through it and see if the ECM will adjust to the Altitude, if not, I'll have to retune it. If I have to, I will do it with a power vision. Should of got one while they were on sale.

I call baloney on what the dealer said

Pretty sure there is 1 canned map for the Rushmore baggers and triglides and 1 for the Freewheelers

I bet ya your O2 sensors sees something in the look up tables it does not like

Albeit a bad sensor I dunno

I would as Kevin eluded to check your throttle plate, if it is gummy clean it

Try to wipe out as much of the grime before you start the engine ( let it dry out good)

Run some no alcohol premium thru 1 tank

If that does not clear out the code, look at replacing the O2 sensor

[FuzzyWuzHe]

Okay ... so this is kind of driving me crazy. So i went back to trouble shooting 101.

Step one, did you make any changes?

Step two, are you sure?

And I did make a change that may have affected the tune. I installed a SS Super Stage one Air Cleaner I took off my Tri. I don't know if the difference is significant enough, but, I switched it back to the HD Stage one cleaner today. I'll give it awhile without doing anything else, and then go from there.



Regardless, I think I'm gonna do a Power Vision. On my current tune, I can not toggle the ETMS on of off. When I go to Vegas in the summer, i almost always toggle it on. Lots of stop and go traffic on the strip and it's always over 100*.

Lots of other things I miss about the Power Vision, mostly the info one can glean from the unit on the fly.

[Jack Klarich]

Okay ... so this is kind of driving me crazy. So i went back to trouble shooting 101.

Step one, did you make any changes?

Step two, are you sure?

And I did make a change that may have affected the tune. I installed a SS Super Stage one Air Cleaner I took off my Tri. I don't know if the difference is significant enough, but, I switched it back to the HD Stage one cleaner today. I'll give it awhile without doing anything else, and then go from there.



Regardless, I think I'm gonna do a Power Vision. On my current tune, I can not toggle the ETMS on of off. When I go to Vegas in the summer, i almost always toggle it on. Lots of stop and go traffic on the strip and it's always over 100*.

Lots of other things I miss about the Power Vision, mostly the info one can glean from the unit on the fly.

AHA, now, are your heads vented into the throttle body?

If so that could be part of the problem

That messy oil and water vapor can raise problems in the intake track as well as combustion chamber

I have never liked that set up

Look inside with the throttle held open how does it look?

The only change with the free flowing air filter is more air

The ECM can compensate for some of that= a bit leaner not richer like what the rear O2 is reading UNLESS the ECM is trying TOO hard to compensate with more fuel, but I kinda doubt it could dump that much fuel JMO

[FuzzyWuzHe]

The only change with the free flowing air filter is more air

The ECM can compensate for some of that= a bit leaner not richer like what the rear O2 is reading UNLESS the ECM is trying TOO hard to compensate with more fuel, but I kinda doubt it could dump that much fuel JMO

If the SS Super Cleaner was allowing less air than the HD Stage One, wouldn't that make it run richer?

There was a little oil behind the air cleaner, couple drops, but most HD's I've had exhibited that, I whipped it down well and we'll see.

Gonna order the PV, I'm convinced this is a tune issue.

[Jack Klarich]

If the SS Super Cleaner was allowing less air than the HD Stage One, wouldn't that make it run richer?

There was a little oil behind the air cleaner, couple drops, but most HD's I've had exhibited that, I whipped it down well and we'll see.

Gonna order the PV, I'm convinced this is a tune issue.

In real time sure but I dunno if the ECM would care about a little bit

You are making a smart move with the PV

You can fine tune that bad boy on the fly

Good luck

[FuzzyWuzHe]

You are making a smart move with the PV

You can fine tune that bad boy on the fly

My tri was tuned by the PV, and it was the best running Harley I've ever owned. So I think you are right.

Keven recommended I start with my old Tri Tune, after tweeting the speed o, it was a good tune.

[Jack Klarich]

My tri was tuned by the PV, and it was the best running Harley I've ever owned. So I think you are right.

Keven recommended I start with my old Tri Tune, after tweeting the speed o, it was a good tune.

Kevin would know, I trust his word

The PV has so many great features

IMO, HD should talk to them about an EPA friendly tuner

[FuzzyWuzHe]

Just ordered my PV ... now I have to start "learning" all I know about the unit AGAIN. I do have a Tri Tune that I'll start with, but, now need to figure out again how I modify the speedo back to 2 wheels ... Looking forward to getting the unit and doing my bike right.

[FuzzyWuzHe]

Well, over the weekend I did move things around and mounted the bracket that will hold the Power Vision ... ... Moved the Butler holder to the right side and mounted the bracket for the PV on the left.

[FuzzyWuzHe]

So I'm out giving the spare air breather mount a second light coat of paint and I walk back into the garage and I was shocked to notice something.

The left pipe (as you look from the back) is forming like brownish color that it didn't have before. These are the Vance and Hines power duals and I have the Hi Flow slip ons.



My question is, I know that the exhaust gases mix in the X chamber, but is the left side mostly the rear cylinder exhaust?

Another possibility is crank case gases. Every time I take the air cleaner off, I have oily stuff running down the mounting plate (hence the crank case vent kit install).



This would kind of confirm that the rear cylinder is running rich. My Power Vision will be here Friday the 30th, probably get installed Saturday and maybe do some tune rides on Saturday afternoon or Sunday.

I already have the win pc software updated and have my old Tri Tune updated for two wheels (thanks Kevin), The PV will also have a dyno jet tune specifically geared to my configuration. Gonna be interesting to see if the tunes clear this up.

[FuzzyWuzHe]

Okay, so I'm not sure what this means, but I went for a ride today, maybe 20 miles while waiting for my crank case vent kit to show. When I got back, no codes. Later, I ran to the store for some pellets to smoke a pork butt for Easter, but, I digress. When I got home, PO152 code was back. Very strange.

If the O2 sensor is bad, wouldn't it be bad all the time? My experience is that electronics don't usually be intermittently bad.

I'll find out tomorrow when the PV gets here ... Okay maybe not until Saturday or Sunday.